Florida and the Supreme Court would not have been an issue if Ralph Nader would not have been in the running.
The 2016 United States Presidential Election Thread. v. 2
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You know what direction I've come down on almost everything here, and Dean's dead wrong. Just because Trump is a f***wit doesn't excuse Dean for his f***wittery. Of course, that's on the outdated notion that "right is right and wrong is wrong, no matter what team's uniform it's coming from" and so anyone who's been complicit in Trump's claims who's "offended" by this is wrong, and anyone who bashed Trump for the Hillary comments and supports this one is wrong. Credit to MSNBC for actually remembering this principle for once.
They would, but they're booked until the 2020 campaign investigating the Swiss File Transfer and how it related to Benghazi, Whitewater, the emails, JonBenet Ramsey, and the fall of Rome.
I can't blame the Supreme Court. I'd like to, but I think they were right in the end. I do want to blame Florida, but as far as I can tell we as a state actually had just enough people vote that way to turn it the way it went. Can I blame Gore for being an utterly uninspiring candidate?
It's all a matter of timing. If it were McCain instead of Bush in 2000, or Obama instead of Gore, and then the other guy in 2008, we'd be in a much better place now.
Here's a link to the refiled rape case against Donald Trump and his buddy Jeffrey Epstein, who is of very high moral character, NOT!
Is this real life? We've heard cries of how Bill Clinton is a rapist and Killary laughs at raped young girls, which were completely unfounded, but those/that people/person, didn't even raise an eyebrow to Trump being buddy buddy with a registered sex offender and then boasts about how he likes them young. I wonder why he's so much fun to be around? Is it because Trump likes young girls too? I mean, he had tingly feelings when a 12 year old Paris Hilton walked into the room..... Trump told Stern, “Now, somebody who a lot of people don’t give credit to but is in actuality very beautiful is Paris Hilton. I’ve known Paris Hilton from the time she’s 12, her parents are friends of mine, and the first time I saw her she walked into the room and I said, ‘Who the hell is that?’ At 12, I wasn’t interested… but she was beautiful.” The Daily Beast reported that Trump “also admitted to watching Paris Hilton’s sex tape with Knauss, despite knowing her since the age of 12 and being very close friends with the Hilton Family.”
Trump is quoted as saying, ""I've known Jeff for fifteen years. Terrific guy,'' Trump booms from a speakerphone. "He's a lot of fun to be with. It is even said that he likes beautiful women as much as I do, and many of them are on the younger side. No doubt about it — Jeffrey enjoys his social life.""
Is this real life? We've heard cries of how Bill Clinton is a rapist and Killary laughs at raped young girls, which were completely unfounded, but those/that people/person, didn't even raise an eyebrow to Trump being buddy buddy with a registered sex offender and then boasts about how he likes them young. I wonder why he's so much fun to be around? Is it because Trump likes young girls too? I mean, he had tingly feelings when a 12 year old Paris Hilton walked into the room..... Trump told Stern, “Now, somebody who a lot of people don’t give credit to but is in actuality very beautiful is Paris Hilton. I’ve known Paris Hilton from the time she’s 12, her parents are friends of mine, and the first time I saw her she walked into the room and I said, ‘Who the hell is that?’ At 12, I wasn’t interested… but she was beautiful.” The Daily Beast reported that Trump “also admitted to watching Paris Hilton’s sex tape with Knauss, despite knowing her since the age of 12 and being very close friends with the Hilton Family.”
Trump is quoted as saying, ""I've known Jeff for fifteen years. Terrific guy,'' Trump booms from a speakerphone. "He's a lot of fun to be with. It is even said that he likes beautiful women as much as I do, and many of them are on the younger side. No doubt about it — Jeffrey enjoys his social life.""
In March 2005, a woman contacted Palm Beach police and alleged her 14-year-old daughter had been taken to Jeffrey Epstein's mansion by an older girl and paid $300 after stripping and massaging him.[10] She had undressed, but left on her underwear.[19]
Police started an 11-month undercover investigation of Epstein, followed by a search of his home. Subsequently, they alleged that Epstein had paid several escorts to perform sexual acts on him. Interviews with five alleged victims and seventeen witnesses under oath, a high-school transcript and other items they found in Epstein's trash and home allegedly showed that some girls were under 18.[20] A search of Epstein's home found large numbers of photos of girls throughout the house, some of whom had been interviewed earlier by the police.[19] Papers filed in 2006 state that Epstein installed concealed cameras in numerous places in his property to record sex between prominent people and underage prostitutes for criminal purposes such as blackmail.[21]
Epstein had set up a system of young women recruiting other women for his massage services.[10] Two housekeepers stated to the police that Epstein would receive "massages" every day whenever he stayed in Palm Beach.[19] In May 2006, Palm Beach police filed a probable cause affidavit saying that Epstein should be charged with four counts of unlawful sex with minors and one molestation count.[19] His team of lawyers included Gerald Lefcourt, Alan Dershowitz and later Ken Starr.[10] Epstein passed a lie detector test in which he was asked whether he knew of the underage status of the girls—although lie detector tests are generally not admissible in a court of law.[22][23]
Instead of following police recommendation, the prosecutors considered the evidence weak[22] and presented it to a grand jury. Former chief of Palm Beach police Michael Reiter later wrote to State Attorney Barry Krischer to complain of the state's "highly unusual" conduct and asked him to remove himself from the case.[10] The grand jury returned only a single charge of felony solicitation of prostitution,[24] to which Epstein pleaded not guilty in August 2006.[25]
In June 2008, after pleading guilty to a single state charge of soliciting prostitution from girls as young as 14,[26] Epstein began serving an 18-month sentence. He served 13 months, and upon release became a registered sex offender.[3][27] There is widespread controversy and suspicion that Epstein got off lightly.[28]
After the accusations became public, several parties returned donations they had received from Epstein, including Eliot Spitzer, Bill Richardson,[11] and the Palm Beach Police Department.[20] Harvard announced that it would not return any money.[11] A range of charitable donations Epstein had made financing children's education were also brought into question.[26]
On June 18, 2010, Epstein's former butler, Alfredo Rodriguez, was sentenced to 18 months in jail for trying to sell a journal that he said recorded Epstein's activities. Among the names alleged to be in the book is 2016 Presidential candidate, Donald Trump. Special Agent Christina Pryor reviewed the material and agreed it was information "that would have been extremely useful in investigating and prosecuting the case, including names and contact information of material witnesses and additional victims."[29][30] Epstein allegedly lent girls to powerful people to ingratiate himself with them and also to get possible blackmail information.[28]
Virginia Roberts
The neutrality of this section is disputed. Relevant discussion may be found on the talk page. Please do not remove this message until conditions to do so are met. (April 2015) (Learn how and when to remove this template message)
In January 2015, a 31-year-old American woman, Virginia Roberts, alleged in a sworn affidavit that at the age of 17, she had been employed by Epstein as a sex slave and he trafficked her to several people, including Prince Andrew and Harvard Law Professor Alan Dershowitz. She claimed that Epstein and others had physically and sexually abused her.[31]
She alleged that the FBI may have been involved in a cover-up.[32] Roberts said she served as Epstein's sex slave from 1999 to 2002, recruiting other girls.[33] Prince Andrew, Epstein and Dershowitz all deny having sex with Roberts, and Dershowitz is taking legal action over the allegations.[34][35][36] A diary purported to belong to Roberts was published online.[37][38]
The BBC television series Panorama planned an investigation of the scandal.[39] As of early 2015 no law court had tested these claims.[40]
On April 7, 2015, Judge Kenneth Marra ruled that the allegations made by Roberts against Prince Andrew had no bearing on the aim of the lawsuit to reopen Epstein's non-prosecution agreement and should be struck from the record.[41] Judge Marra made no ruling as to whether claims by Roberts are true or false.[42] Marra specifically stated that Roberts may later give evidence when the case comes to court.[43]
Civil lawsuits
On February 6, 2008, an anonymous Virginia woman filed a $50 million civil lawsuit[44] in federal court against Epstein, alleging that when she was a 16-year-old minor in 2004–2005, she was "recruited to give Epstein a massage." She claims she was taken to his mansion, where he exposed himself and had sexual intercourse with her, and paid her $200 immediately afterward.[24] A similar $50 million suit was filed by a different woman in March 2008, who was represented by the same lawyer.[45] Several of these lawsuits were dismissed, and all other lawsuits were settled out of court.[46] Epstein has so far made 17 out-of-court settlements, and some cases are ongoing.[47] A December 30, 2014 federal civil suit was filed in Florida against the United States for violations of the Crime Victims' Rights Act in agreeing to the 2008 plea; it accuses Dershowitz of sexually abusing a minor provided by Epstein.[48] (See Two Jane Does v. United States.) The allegations against Dershowitz were stricken by the judge and eliminated from the case however, after Dershowitz's attorney argued that they were baseless.[49] A court document alleges that Epstein ran a “sexual abuse ring”, and lent underage girls to “prominent American politicians, powerful business executives, foreign presidents, a well-known prime minister, and other world leaders.”[50]
Another woman, Katie Johnson, filed a lawsuit in June 2016 accusing Epstein and Republican presidential nominee Donald Trump of raping her in 1994, when she was 13 years old.[51][52][53][54] Judges Ronnie Abrams and James C. Francis IV will preside over the case against Epstein and Trump.[55] On September 16, 2016, Johnson, known as "Jane Doe", filed to dismiss the current lawsuit. Her lawyer stated that she would re-file the lawsuit with an "additional witness."[56][57][58]
Police started an 11-month undercover investigation of Epstein, followed by a search of his home. Subsequently, they alleged that Epstein had paid several escorts to perform sexual acts on him. Interviews with five alleged victims and seventeen witnesses under oath, a high-school transcript and other items they found in Epstein's trash and home allegedly showed that some girls were under 18.[20] A search of Epstein's home found large numbers of photos of girls throughout the house, some of whom had been interviewed earlier by the police.[19] Papers filed in 2006 state that Epstein installed concealed cameras in numerous places in his property to record sex between prominent people and underage prostitutes for criminal purposes such as blackmail.[21]
Epstein had set up a system of young women recruiting other women for his massage services.[10] Two housekeepers stated to the police that Epstein would receive "massages" every day whenever he stayed in Palm Beach.[19] In May 2006, Palm Beach police filed a probable cause affidavit saying that Epstein should be charged with four counts of unlawful sex with minors and one molestation count.[19] His team of lawyers included Gerald Lefcourt, Alan Dershowitz and later Ken Starr.[10] Epstein passed a lie detector test in which he was asked whether he knew of the underage status of the girls—although lie detector tests are generally not admissible in a court of law.[22][23]
Instead of following police recommendation, the prosecutors considered the evidence weak[22] and presented it to a grand jury. Former chief of Palm Beach police Michael Reiter later wrote to State Attorney Barry Krischer to complain of the state's "highly unusual" conduct and asked him to remove himself from the case.[10] The grand jury returned only a single charge of felony solicitation of prostitution,[24] to which Epstein pleaded not guilty in August 2006.[25]
In June 2008, after pleading guilty to a single state charge of soliciting prostitution from girls as young as 14,[26] Epstein began serving an 18-month sentence. He served 13 months, and upon release became a registered sex offender.[3][27] There is widespread controversy and suspicion that Epstein got off lightly.[28]
After the accusations became public, several parties returned donations they had received from Epstein, including Eliot Spitzer, Bill Richardson,[11] and the Palm Beach Police Department.[20] Harvard announced that it would not return any money.[11] A range of charitable donations Epstein had made financing children's education were also brought into question.[26]
On June 18, 2010, Epstein's former butler, Alfredo Rodriguez, was sentenced to 18 months in jail for trying to sell a journal that he said recorded Epstein's activities. Among the names alleged to be in the book is 2016 Presidential candidate, Donald Trump. Special Agent Christina Pryor reviewed the material and agreed it was information "that would have been extremely useful in investigating and prosecuting the case, including names and contact information of material witnesses and additional victims."[29][30] Epstein allegedly lent girls to powerful people to ingratiate himself with them and also to get possible blackmail information.[28]
Virginia Roberts
The neutrality of this section is disputed. Relevant discussion may be found on the talk page. Please do not remove this message until conditions to do so are met. (April 2015) (Learn how and when to remove this template message)
In January 2015, a 31-year-old American woman, Virginia Roberts, alleged in a sworn affidavit that at the age of 17, she had been employed by Epstein as a sex slave and he trafficked her to several people, including Prince Andrew and Harvard Law Professor Alan Dershowitz. She claimed that Epstein and others had physically and sexually abused her.[31]
She alleged that the FBI may have been involved in a cover-up.[32] Roberts said she served as Epstein's sex slave from 1999 to 2002, recruiting other girls.[33] Prince Andrew, Epstein and Dershowitz all deny having sex with Roberts, and Dershowitz is taking legal action over the allegations.[34][35][36] A diary purported to belong to Roberts was published online.[37][38]
The BBC television series Panorama planned an investigation of the scandal.[39] As of early 2015 no law court had tested these claims.[40]
On April 7, 2015, Judge Kenneth Marra ruled that the allegations made by Roberts against Prince Andrew had no bearing on the aim of the lawsuit to reopen Epstein's non-prosecution agreement and should be struck from the record.[41] Judge Marra made no ruling as to whether claims by Roberts are true or false.[42] Marra specifically stated that Roberts may later give evidence when the case comes to court.[43]
Civil lawsuits
On February 6, 2008, an anonymous Virginia woman filed a $50 million civil lawsuit[44] in federal court against Epstein, alleging that when she was a 16-year-old minor in 2004–2005, she was "recruited to give Epstein a massage." She claims she was taken to his mansion, where he exposed himself and had sexual intercourse with her, and paid her $200 immediately afterward.[24] A similar $50 million suit was filed by a different woman in March 2008, who was represented by the same lawyer.[45] Several of these lawsuits were dismissed, and all other lawsuits were settled out of court.[46] Epstein has so far made 17 out-of-court settlements, and some cases are ongoing.[47] A December 30, 2014 federal civil suit was filed in Florida against the United States for violations of the Crime Victims' Rights Act in agreeing to the 2008 plea; it accuses Dershowitz of sexually abusing a minor provided by Epstein.[48] (See Two Jane Does v. United States.) The allegations against Dershowitz were stricken by the judge and eliminated from the case however, after Dershowitz's attorney argued that they were baseless.[49] A court document alleges that Epstein ran a “sexual abuse ring”, and lent underage girls to “prominent American politicians, powerful business executives, foreign presidents, a well-known prime minister, and other world leaders.”[50]
Another woman, Katie Johnson, filed a lawsuit in June 2016 accusing Epstein and Republican presidential nominee Donald Trump of raping her in 1994, when she was 13 years old.[51][52][53][54] Judges Ronnie Abrams and James C. Francis IV will preside over the case against Epstein and Trump.[55] On September 16, 2016, Johnson, known as "Jane Doe", filed to dismiss the current lawsuit. Her lawyer stated that she would re-file the lawsuit with an "additional witness."[56][57][58]
The more I read about it the worse it's getting. Remember, Killary is being called guilty because an aide is pleading the 5th in the email "scandal." Now, following that logic, Trump should also be guilty of socializing with underage girls since his registered sex offender Epstien pleaded the Fifth, Sixth, and 14th Amendments?
https://news.vice.com/article/the-s...-a-fight-against-hillary-clinton-bill-clinton
https://news.vice.com/article/the-s...-a-fight-against-hillary-clinton-bill-clinton
In 2010, Epstein pled the Fifth when asked by a lawyer representing one of Epstein's victims about his relationship with Trump:
Q: Have you ever had a personal relationship with Donald Trump?
A. What do you mean by "personal relationship," sir?
Q. Have you socialized with him?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Yes?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Have you ever socialized with Donald Trump in the presence of females under the age of 18?
A: Though I'd like to answer that question, at least today I'm going to have to assert my Fifth, Sixth, and 14th Amendment rights, sir.
Epstein did not respond to a request for comment.
Q: Have you ever had a personal relationship with Donald Trump?
A. What do you mean by "personal relationship," sir?
Q. Have you socialized with him?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Yes?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Have you ever socialized with Donald Trump in the presence of females under the age of 18?
A: Though I'd like to answer that question, at least today I'm going to have to assert my Fifth, Sixth, and 14th Amendment rights, sir.
Epstein did not respond to a request for comment.
Definitely. I've claimed Trump is a cocaine addict. Of course, tongue was firmly planted in cheek.
Funny how many people then pushed the idea of both candidates being just as bad. Don't want to vote for lesser of two evils and blah blah blah.
I don't care if Hillary Clinton strangles puppies every night she is the only person running that is qualified to be President.
Well, that would guarantee I'd never vote for her, but I have the luxury of not having to worry about who I vote for.
I blame Bill, and his insatiable sex appetite. But yea, Tipper did no favors and Al was about exciting as a torn pocket.
You should blame Gore for distancing himself from Bill. Bill Clintons approval rating was in the high 50s/low 60s before the election. People didn't care about the Monica scandal.
yea, I forgot about that. He didnt want Clinton near him or his endorsement.
He thought he had to distance himself from him in order to get more of the republican vote. It ended up working, but he also lost some of the dem vote as a result.
Didn't the last Federal Election for Canada have 3 or 4 parties ? Didn't the UK have even more? Do these countries piss and moan about spoilers?
What is needed is a better process of elimination rather then kicking out people because.... spoilerz.
We have four now. If they can't poll high enough to get it on the debates they should probably also be left off the voting ballot. If someone still wants to vote for them they can do a write in.
The problem is
1. Electoral college. A serious third party candidate would lead to congress deciding the election. That should be considered a nightmare scenario.
2. The third parties only show up every 4 years and aren't taken seriously
3. The third parties don't nominate serious candidates. If there was ever a year where one could gain serious ground its this one and we get a guy who can't name a foreign leader. Not even a dead one!
I don't see how they can ever get those poll numbers since they'll never get the the kind of media coverage the Republicans and Democrats do including their Primaries. It's not like we see coverage of the Libertarian Primary and nomination.
Oh well, what's the alternative? Hope the entire Republican Party implodes so something else can replace them in the 2 party system?
NOTE: I mostly got into this tangent because I was one of the people who voted for Nader lol. In principle, I would also like to see Gary get a chance to debate even if he is pulling Rick Perry level gaffs. I'm not a strong Gary Johnson backer at this point, but I would be willing to hear him out in a debate.
I'm not sure how to rate that, so I went with informative, because "It's funny because it's sadly way too f***ing true" isn't an option.
You should be thankful
I dunno what's worse. In the GoP Primary we were still subjected to a booger slurp.
I liked Nader also. If you look back at what he was telling us it's almost like he knew the future. He was a very smart guy.
I cant tell if she is wearing a wire or smuggling a dildo.
RE: multiple parties. there have been a few good candidates (Nadar, Anderson -sort of Rep, Perot- Libertarian). Problem is most of if not all the others a certifiably insane, just plain stupid(Johnson) or just jumped parties in name only, (again Johnson).
You look at on the state and local level and there is hardly anyone outside Dem or Rep that is running for office. I think its like 10% nationwide. If there was a grassroots effort to get Libertarian or Green candidates on the ballot at these levels then you can start making viable runs for the presidency.
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