37-45 is now "super" and "loaded".
Stop embarrassing yourself. You cling to your records argument like it’s the last life boat left on the Titanic. You have nothing else.
37-45 is now "super" and "loaded".
You now have to deny basic common sense in order to prop Jordan up.
So, again, what is the best team in the East that Lebron beat in all of his finals appearances? It's almost like you're afraid to answer that, just like you're afraid to discuss his super team losing to Dirk freaking Nowitzki.
(Well, except for the almost part.)
Are there people that really think that LeBron’s Miami team and his 2nd Cavs team we’re actually bad teams around him? He living in a fantasy land in his head.
This should be enlightening for you...
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.foxsports.com/nba/gallery/lebron-james-michael-jordan-nba-playoffs-finals-preview-greatest-opponents-052517?amp=true
Here's the final tally: Jordan had the harder road through the postseason five times (Years 1, 4, 5, 8, and 10), while LeBron faced tougher competition (Years 2, 3, 6, 7, 9, 11, and 12) in seven postseasons.
All while playing on rosters that couldn't reach .500 without him. Easy mode vs hard mode.
Data. You can either be fearful of it, or you can choose to accept it.
Also, aside from my previous points Jordan still has a higher PER (#1 all-time) if you consider that a valid metric, despite his later years with the Wizards.
Here are all the players ahead of Lebron in PIPM so far this year:PER is the most criticized of all the public analytics. John Hollinger created it in the mid 90's (20 years before the analytics boom really took off), it basically ignores defensive contributions and doesn't account for minutes played or level of competition. Once the analytics boom happened other stats were created to fix many of it's shortcomings.
PIPM (Player Impact Plus Minus) and BPM (Box Plus Minus) are largely considered to be the best single stats we have.
LeBron James beats Jordan handedly in both stats. Handedly.
Defensively, he put league MVP Derrick Rose (an offense only player) in what is known as the torture chamber, where he shut him down and forced him to shoot 6.3 percent in games 4 and 5 of the ECF to finish off the Bulls in 5.
Jordan was great. He's absolutely a top 2 - 5 GOAT candidate depending on how you rank the old timers, but he was simply the beneficiary of playing on better teams. Jordan did nothing until talent joined him. LeBron took no talent to the Finals.
Pascal Siakam is definitely better than Lebron. And lol at Jordan being #1 in this "advanaced" metric anyway.Here are all the players ahead of Lebron in PIPM so far this year:
Giannis Antetokounmpo
Anthony Davis
Kevin Durant
Paul George
Joel Embiid
Nikola Vucevic
Kyle Lowry
Stephen Curry
Kyrie Irving
Jusuf Nurkic
James Harden
Rudy Gobert
Mike Conley
Brook Lopez
Jrue Holiday
Russell Westbrook
Nikola Jokic
Damian Lillard
Danny Green
Eric Bledsoe
Pascal Siakam
Kawhi Leonard
Does that sound right to you in terms of who the best player is this year? It certainly doesn't ring true to me. Also, the father of the PIPM, Jacob Goldstein, posted the career PIPM here:
https://www.bball-index.com/player-impact-plus-minus/
If you follow the link at the bottom to the Excel sheet and search by Lebron and Jordan, Jordan has the higher PIPM. Please link to where Lebron beats Jordan handedly in PIPM.
Here are all the players ahead of Lebron in PIPM so far this year:
Giannis Antetokounmpo
Anthony Davis
Kevin Durant
Paul George
Joel Embiid
Nikola Vucevic
Kyle Lowry
Stephen Curry
Kyrie Irving
Jusuf Nurkic
James Harden
Rudy Gobert
Mike Conley
Brook Lopez
Jrue Holiday
Russell Westbrook
Nikola Jokic
Damian Lillard
Danny Green
Eric Bledsoe
Pascal Siakam
Kawhi Leonard
Does that sound right to you in terms of who the best player is this year? It certainly doesn't ring true to me. Also, the father of the PIPM, Jacob Goldstein, posted the career PIPM here:
https://www.bball-index.com/player-impact-plus-minus/
If you follow the link at the bottom to the Excel sheet and search by Lebron and Jordan, Jordan has the higher PIPM. Please link to where Lebron beats Jordan handedly in PIPM.
PER is the most criticized of all the public analytics. John Hollinger created it in the mid 90's (20 years before the analytics boom really took off), it basically ignores defensive contributions and doesn't account for minutes played or level of competition. Once the analytics boom happened other stats were created to fix many of it's shortcomings.
PIPM (Player Impact Plus Minus) and BPM (Box Plus Minus) are largely considered to be the best single stats we have.
LeBron James beats Jordan handedly in both stats. Handedly.
Defensively, he put league MVP Derrick Rose (an offense only player) in what is known as the torture chamber, where he shut him down and forced him to shoot 6.3 percent in games 4 and 5 of the ECF to finish off the Bulls in 5.
Jordan was great. He's absolutely a top 2 - 5 GOAT candidate depending on how you rank the old timers, but he was simply the beneficiary of playing on better teams. Jordan did nothing until talent joined him. LeBron took no talent to the Finals.
Why would they? Winning with Scottie Pippen and Will Perdue is much easier than losing with Dwayne Wade, Ray Allen, and Chris Bosh. Are you stupid or something?So winning the finals doesn't count but getting to the finals does?
So winning the finals doesn't count but getting to the finals does?
It's all encompassing.
Both players played on good teams. Both players played on bad teams.
LeBron took bad teams much farther than Jordan.
Jordan took better teams farther than LeBron.
At a certain point, you have to address the 55-27 Pippen season in your head. LeBron never played on a roster with nearly the same amount of talent.
The biggest knock to his legacy was that season.
So the Celtics Lebron beat that didn't have their two best players are similar to the Bird Celtics Jordan lost to? Or the Pistons? Comical.
Lebron played won titles with 3 Hall of Famers in Miami and 2 in Cleveland. When you try to argue he had no talent with him you just look dumb.
No, I'm not saying that at all actually.
Well you are putting a lot of importance on that 7 game series win against Boston last year. We both know nobody in the East last year had a shot at the title.
What I do know is that the Heat were good enough to win all 4 years. They won 2. That is a great accomplishment but the GOAT wins all 4.
I literally never even referenced that series.
But keep ignoring how Jordan had the keys to a Lamborghini during his title years, while James was driving a minivan with bags full of groceries weighing him down...
Well something last year had to impress you. The Raptors? The Pacers? Almost winning a game vs GS? What did they do last year that is so shockingly GOAT-like?
I just know there is not year you can look at Jordan and say its his fault they didn't win the title. With Lebron? 2011. It ends the GOAT talk forever.
Taking the worst roster in the league to the NBA Finals and forcing two highly competitive games with arguably the best team of all time is what impressed me.
Jordan never did that because Jordan couldn't do that.
Also, when you take a nap in your self driving Lamborghini, the self driving Lamborghini tends to still record decent lap times.
When you fall asleep in your 2005 Toyota Camery, you tend to crash into a fiery wreck.