Numbers Discussion Thread

Are You Buying...

  • All Physical

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • All Digital

    Votes: 5 50.0%

  • 50/50

    Votes: 1 10.0%

  • Mostly Physical

    Votes: 4 40.0%

  • Mostly Digital

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Gamepass all the Way!

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Total voters
    10
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Andy said:
My takeaway is that GaaS/service games are much more profitable, so that's where the industry is heading. We already knew that, of course. But this time, there's a chart.



Yeah, that's the press picking up what Zhuge said at Resetera.

Xbox at about 35 million WW:
https://www.resetera.com/posts/4434590/

X1X outselling PS4 Pro in US, launch aligned:
https://www.resetera.com/posts/4435357/
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Man it seems like Microsoft has been chasing 30million for years now. They're barely over that.
 
Dno69 said:
Man it seems like Microsoft has been chasing 30million for years now. They're barely over that.
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Seems like they hit the 35 million mark this holiday. So I imagine that would them in the low to middle 40's after this holiday.
 
Hedon said:
Seems like they hit the 35 million mark this holiday. So I imagine that would them in the low to middle 40's after this holiday.
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I believe Zhuge's estimate was referencing the end of 2017, so post-holiday.

hrudey said:
And while I don't disagree with your right to do that, do you think maybe that practice may have just a smidge to do with the lamented-about death of the AAA single player story driven game and the industry's move towards games that they can make money on a recurring basis?
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Used games eat into their profit margins, but I wouldn't say they are a factor in explaining the shift to GaaS, no. The reason is, used games have been around forever, for as long as games have existed. So that can't be an explanation for any recent changes we see.

I think the main factors explaining the shift are 1) massively ballooning game budgets; 2) widespread internet connectivity for consoles, plus the increasing popularity of online/MP gaming; and 3) the publishers' discovery that they can make a lot more money with the service/GaaS games than they can on linear SP games.
 
Andy said:
I believe Zhuge's estimate was referencing the end of 2017, so post-holiday.



Used games eat into their profit margins, but I wouldn't say they are a factor in explaining the shift to GaaS, no. The reason is, used games have been around forever, for as long as games have existed. So that can't be an explanation for any recent changes we see.

I think the main factors explaining the shift are 1) massively ballooning game budgets; 2) widespread internet connectivity for consoles, plus the increasing popularity of online/MP gaming; and 3) the publishers' discovery that they can make a lot more money with the service/GaaS games than they can on linear SP games.
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Sorry. I guess I consider holiday through end of year, new years.
 
Andy said:
Used games eat into their profit margins, but I wouldn't say they are a factor in explaining the shift to GaaS, no. The reason is, used games have been around forever, for as long as games have existed. So that can't be an explanation for any recent changes we see.
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People being unable to fly has been around forever, as long as people have existed. So that can't be an explanation for why airplanes were invented.

To put it less snarkily, EA, Ubisoft and Activision all had programs in place *prior* to the Xbox One launch with an "online pass" required to access content that people who bought the game first-hand got for free. EA's Online Pass was definitely a thing back in 2010 and Gamestop was often specifically cited in articles about the reasoning behind this. That tactic flamed out pretty spectacularly, culminating with Microsoft's attempt at a system-wide content licensing scenario that enraged people who have the opinion that they're buying the plastic disc and not a license to use the software.

So GaaS is defnitely the next attempt at addressing the "how do we get paid when someone decides to get the game from a marketplace where we receive nothing" problem. But it's exceedingly hard to make additional content for a single player game be semi-mandatory - because if the game can be played and finished from the disk at launch, or three years later, there's not going to be much of a revenue stream for it. But these wallet grind service games don't really care much if you bought the initial game used or not, you're going to have to buy the DLC to play online with the other people who are playing for the most part.

So unless you have a vested interest in doing so (which primarily ends up being console manufacturers), whenever possible you're going to shy away from going the AAA SP route unless you can find some way to hook in those microtransactions or service subscriptions. Part of it, of course, is the ballooning costs, but part of it surely is that the publishers make literally nothing from a sizable percentage of people who do play these games.
 
hrudey said:
People being unable to fly has been around forever, as long as people have existed.
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giphy.gif
 
hrudey said:
People being unable to fly has been around forever, as long as people have existed. So that can't be an explanation for why airplanes were invented.

To put it less snarkily, EA, Ubisoft and Activision all had programs in place *prior* to the Xbox One launch with an "online pass" required to access content that people who bought the game first-hand got for free. EA's Online Pass was definitely a thing back in 2010 and Gamestop was often specifically cited in articles about the reasoning behind this. That tactic flamed out pretty spectacularly, culminating with Microsoft's attempt at a system-wide content licensing scenario that enraged people who have the opinion that they're buying the plastic disc and not a license to use the software.

So GaaS is defnitely the next attempt at addressing the "how do we get paid when someone decides to get the game from a marketplace where we receive nothing" problem. But it's exceedingly hard to make additional content for a single player game be semi-mandatory - because if the game can be played and finished from the disk at launch, or three years later, there's not going to be much of a revenue stream for it. But these wallet grind service games don't really care much if you bought the initial game used or not, you're going to have to buy the DLC to play online with the other people who are playing for the most part.

So unless you have a vested interest in doing so (which primarily ends up being console manufacturers), whenever possible you're going to shy away from going the AAA SP route unless you can find some way to hook in those microtransactions or service subscriptions. Part of it, of course, is the ballooning costs, but part of it surely is that the publishers make literally nothing from a sizable percentage of people who do play these games.
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Used game sales come quite a bit after the game has launched and the majority of it's copies were going to be sold anyway. Also many people trade in used games towards the purchase of new games, before I went digital that's what I always did. People who want to buy a "new used" game end up only saving $5.00 if they can find a copy at all after the first few weeks from launch so that hardly happens. I think the problem is a bit overstated. The issue is really publishers being upset that they aren't getting the money from that sale, it's not because they are missing it but they feel like it belongs to them and they want it, totally ignoring the fact that someone who waited for it to get cheap enough to buy it used either couldn't afford to pay full price or just wasn't interested enough in the product to think it was worth the $60 initial buy in.
 
hrudey said:
People being unable to fly has been around forever, as long as people have existed. So that can't be an explanation for why airplanes were invented.
Click to expand...

Exactly. If you asked someone what factors contributed to the invention of the airplane, they would mention things like advances in building materials, advances in design, etc. Someone who explained the invention of the airplane as being due to "people can't fly" would not be offering much of an explanation. As you say, that's been around forever. It doesn't explain why suddenly there are airplanes, when there weren't any airplanes before.

[... ]So unless you have a vested interest in doing so (which primarily ends up being console manufacturers), whenever possible you're going to shy away from going the AAA SP route unless you can find some way to hook in those microtransactions or service subscriptions. Part of it, of course, is the ballooning costs, but part of it surely is that the publishers make literally nothing from a sizable percentage of people who do play these games.
Click to expand...

Yes, it does impact their profits, and they will continue to try to find ways to curtail that. That's what businesses do, after all -- look for ways of curtailing anything that interferes with their bottom line. Used games are one of those factors. I think the used game market is smaller than it was last gen, because of the rise of digital, so it's probably less of a problem than it used to be, but I'm sure it still bugs them.
 
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Hedon said:
Seems like they hit the 35 million mark this holiday. So I imagine that would them in the low to middle 40's after this holiday.
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So it's confirmed as a failure then according to Xbox fans logic last gen. PS3 didn't outsell PS2 and X1 clearly won't outsell 360. Great console, but unfortunately not a success for Microsoft. Better luck next time.
 
Andy said:
Some interesting info about where your $60 goes:

Physical
$15 (25%) goes to the distributor -- Gamestop, Best Buy, amazon, whatever.
$12 (20%) goes to Sony/MS/Nintendo for licensing fee + costs to make discs
$33 (55%) goes back to publisher

Digital
$18 (30%) goes to Sony/MS/Nintendo for licensing/distribution fee
$42 (70%) goes back to the publisher

Bottom line, the publisher gets 55% for physical units and 70% for digital.

https://www.resetera.com/threads/ub...y-ms-nintendo-take-12-in-cogs-per-game.22783/
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One thing they forgot about Physical is wholesaler.

The $15 Distributor margin should be spliced into wholesaler and retailer, unless any game makers ship all their discs direct to retailers.

Maybe the big guys like Walmart, Gamestop and Amazon do, but definitely not the smaller retailers, non-gaming retailers who decide to carry some gaming gear, mom and pop game shops.

In my industry, wholesaler's cut is typically about 5%. Assuming that holds for gaming, a wholesaler would buy a game for $45 ($12 + $33), and mark it up $2-3. A store would sell for $60, but their retailer cut would be down to about 20%.
 
TDbank24 said:
So it's confirmed as a failure then according to Xbox fans logic last gen. PS3 didn't outsell PS2 and X1 clearly won't outsell 360. Great console, but unfortunately not a success for Microsoft. Better luck next time.
Click to expand...

I know you're joking, but let's keep the console war stuff to a minimum in this thread, please. I'd like to keep it a place for sharing information and having reasonable discussions. Thanks.
 
Usually yankeessuck has us covered. I got this...

[PS4] Monster Hunter: World (Limited and Bundle Editions Included) (Capcom, 01/26/1:cool: – 159,613 (1,750,969)

[PS4] Dynasty Warriors 9 (Limited Edition Included) (Koei Tecmo, 02/08/1:cool: – 117,495 (New)

[PS4] Sword Art Online: Fatal Bullet (Limited Edition Included) (Bandai Namco, 02/08/1:cool: – 75,623 (New)

[NSW] Splatoon 2 (Bundle Version Included) (Nintendo, 07/21/17) – 23,461 (2,021,02:cool:

[PS4] Shadow of the Colossus (SIE, 02/08/1:cool: – 21,900 (New)

[NSW] Mario Kart 8 Deluxe (Nintendo, 04,28,17) – 19,210 (1,327,107)

[NSW] Mario + Rabbids Kingdom Battle (Nintendo, 01/18/1:cool: – 15,755 (129,815)

[PS4] Dragon Ball FighterZ (Bandai Namco, 02/01/1:cool: – 14,237 (82,96:cool:

[NSW] Super Mario Odyssey (Bundle Version Included) (Nintendo, 10/27/17) – 13,912 (1,601,866)

[NSW] The Legend of Zelda: Breath of the Wild (Limited Edition Included) (Nintendo, 03/03/17) – 12,087 (859,764)

[PS4] Dragon’s Crown Pro (Atlus, 02/08/1:cool: – 11,691 (New)

[3DS] Pokemon Ultra Sun / Ultra Moon (Nintendo, 11/17/17) – 9,654 (1,548,683)

[3DS] Mario Party: The Top 100 (Nintendo, 12/28/17) – 6,436 (155,782)

[NSW] The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim (Bethesda Softworks, 02/01/1:cool: – 5,625 (19,547)

[NSW] Dragon Ball Xenoverse 2 for Nintendo Switch (Bandai Namco, 09/07/17) – 4,512 (114,72:cool:

[NSW] 1-2-Switch (Nintendo, 03/03/17) – 4,477 (395,563)

[3DS] Yo-kai Watch Busters 2: Treasure Legend Banbaraya – Sword / Magnum (Level-5, 12/16/17) – 4,437 (501,342)

[NSW] Arms (Nintendo, 06/16/17) – 4,322 (364,806)

[NSW] Pokken Tournament DX (Nintendo, 09/22/17) – 4,320 (222,781)

[NSW] Monster Hunter XX Nintendo Switch Ver. (Limited Edition Included) (Capcom, 08/25/17) – 3,373 (214,492)


Hardware Sales (followed by last week’s sales)

PlayStation 4 – 59,691 (86,174)

Switch – 43,404 (49,165)

PlayStation 4 Pro – 11,615 (23,113)

New 2DS LL – 6,031(6,522)

PlayStation Vita – 4,133 (4,207)

New 3DS LL – 3,581(3,857)

2DS – 904 (1,082)

Xbox One X – 209 (565)

Xbox One – 52 (72)

Thanks, 4Gamer.net.

Read more at https://gematsu.com/2018/02/media-create-sales-2-5-18-2-11-18#R0KKyZO7UiCtgUQX.99
 
Man, Japanese games sure are doing well in the charts...
 
Here is the UKIE/GfK Top Ten for the week ending February 17th:

Last Week This Week Title
4 1 FIFA 18
New Entry 2 Kingdom Come: Deliverance
5 3 Grand Theft Auto V
3 4 Monster Hunter World
New Entry 5 Bayonetta 2
2 6 EA Sports UFC 3
1 7 Shadow of the Colossus
6 8 Call of Duty: WWII
7 9 Mario Kart 8 Deluxe
9 10 Assassin's Creed Origins


Bayonetta 2 sold less than it did in Wii U
 
Console platform splits for this week in the UK.

ab4fe5af5e.jpeg



Btw, although it's true that Bayonetta 2's debut on the Switch was lower than Wii U, it was "not significantly so," according to ZHuge, and if digital were included, it likely would have been higher than Wii U.

Bandicoot hanging in there at #11, 8 months after release.

p.s. Also, overheard this: "In terms of hardware numbers, the UK is the second biggest market for Switch in Europe and the fourth-biggest worldwide. The system and the first party software is doing well in the UK."
 
Kingdom Come: Deliverance on PS4 was the number one selling game in the individual charts.
 
Andy said:
Console platform splits for this week in the UK.

ab4fe5af5e.jpeg



Btw, although it's true that Bayonetta 2's debut on the Switch was lower than Wii U, it was "not significantly so," according to ZHuge, and if digital were included, it likely would have been higher than Wii U.

Bandicoot hanging in there at #11, 8 months after release.

p.s. Also, overheard this: "In terms of hardware numbers, the UK is the second biggest market for Switch in Europe and the fourth-biggest worldwide. The system and the first party software is doing well in the UK."
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To sell as good and likely better than the Wii U version is pretty good for a dated port.
 
I heard that KC has done more than 500K, so it's off to a good start. Launching during a slow period probably helped.
 
Or people just want to play a game you don't.... crazy.


Over 332,000 physical video games were sold last week in the UK.
 
Anyone interested in how the consoles are doing in Germany, France, and Spain? No? Well, here you go anyway.

Germany (as of mid 2016)
PS4 3.2 million
XB1 710K

France (as of end of 2016)
PS4: 3.2 million
Xbox One : 1.03 million

Spain software shares for 2017 (I didn't see hardware numbers)
PS4: 64%
3DS: 12%
Switch: 10%
Xbox One: 4%
 
Hardware sales doubled year-over-year in January, according to industry-tracking firm The NPD Group. Nintendo, Microsoft, and Sony all benefited from that spending.

“Hardware spending in January 2018 grew 119 percent when compared to year ago, to $278 million,” NPD analyst Mat Piscatella said. “Spending gains were driven by Switch, Xbox One, and PlayStation 4 hardware sales growth.”

“PlayStation 4, Switch, and Xbox One all performed well in the month of January,” said Piscatella. “In dollar sales, the gap between the top-selling platform and the third best-selling was only 3 percent. Nintendo Switch was the month’s best-selling platform in Unit sales, while PlayStation 4 topped dollar sales. Xbox One dollar and unit sales in January 2018 are the highest achieved for the platform in a January month.”

“January hardware dollar sales of $278 million is the highest level achieved since the $323 million sold in January 2011,” said Piscatella. “Over one million units of hardware sold in January 2018, also the highest tally since January 2011.”

One of the biggest games in the world continued to dominate in January. PlayerUnknown’s Battlegrounds was the No. 4 best-seller in the United States last month, according to industry-tracking firm The NPD Group. What’s impressive is that only includes “physical” and digital sales on Xbox One and not Steam sales on PC.

PUBG, a last-player-standing shooter that debuted on PC in Early Access last April, hit the Xbox One December 12 for $30. During that month, it was the No. 7 best-selling game. Its momentum has not dropped off in January, as it outsold perennial hits like Grand Theft Auto V, NBA 2K18, and more across all platforms.

On Xbox One, the only console it is available for at the moment, it was the No. 2 best-selling game of the month behind only Monster Hunter: World. This means it outsold the hot new fighting game Dragon Ball FighterZ from publisher Bandai Namco. It also outperformed Call of Duty: WWII.

Best selling Xbox One games:
Monster Hunter: World
PlayerUnknown’s Battlegrounds
Call of Duty: WWII
Dragon Ball Fighterz
Grand Theft Auto V
Star Wars: Battlefront II
NBA 2K18
Madden NFL 18
Assassin’s Creed: Origins
UFC 3

More at the link:
https://venturebeat.com/2018/02/21/monster-hunter-world-helps-capcom-own-january-in-the-u-s/
 
Andy said:
Anyone interested in how the consoles are doing in Germany, France, and Spain? No? Well, here you go anyway.

Germany (as of mid 2016)
PS4 3.2 million
XB1 710K

France (as of end of 2016)
PS4: 3.2 million
Xbox One : 1.03 million

Spain software shares for 2017 (I didn't see hardware numbers)
PS4: 64%
3DS: 12%
Switch: 10%
Xbox One: 4%
Click to expand...

Was going to say isn't the German flag green, they need to step it up. Team green baby. Then i realized that's the South American flag and i felt dumb. As if color has anything to do with it anyway but hey, i bought a green fruit of the loom t-shirt at Walmart today and i'm back in the saddle on Union.
 
The full top 10 lies below:

  1. FIFA 18
  2. Grand Theft Auto 5
  3. Call of Duty: WW2
  4. Monster Hunter World
  5. EA Sports UFC 3
  6. Metal Gear Survive
  7. Shadow of the Colossus
  8. Mario Kart 8 Deluxe
  9. Super Mario Odyssey
  10. Assassin's Creed Oranges
 
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