Anyone doing the low/no carb diet?

[Andy]

For anyone who's curious and/or open-minded about it, though, here are a few videos:














There are probably better presentations out there, and I know there are good books on this (reading a couple right now), but that's all I have time to dig up right now.

 

[Videodrome]

That Eric Berg video seemed reasonable and he does not recommend doing a heavy Protein Diet.

I think he even mentioned that Protein drives insulin as well. How did Gary Taubes miss that one in his long ass book?


I do think Carbohydrate can drive appetite and that is something to consider in this, however while Beef is low on the Glycemic Index for blood sugar, it is high on the Insulin Index for those who think Insulin Resistance is an issue.


Dr. Berg's recommendation seems more to be Low - Carb Nutritious Vegetables and some Healthy Fats. Maybe vary Protein based on lifestyle or fitness goals. Also perhaps the combination of Low Carb and healthy Fiber can keep appetite in line or be less hard on the gut.

I actually recently bought a pack of grass fed beef, but I divided it up into small portions. I might try having meat as just a 3rd of my meals and having vegetables / mushrooms for the rest.

Lunch is still a challenge as I have to eat on the go in the damn work truck. I might try some snack options like baby carrots with hummus and very minimal beef jerky. I want to make 1 beef jerky bag last the whole week.

 

[Andy]

That Eric Berg video seemed reasonable and he does not recommend doing a heavy Protein Diet.

I think he even mentioned that Protein drives insulin as well. How did Gary Taubes miss that one in his long ass book?

It does, but not nearly as much as carbs. I remember a chart showing the spike related to carbs being about twice as pronounced as that related to protein. And that's just "carbs" as a general category, not necessarily processed, refined carbs or sugar, which I would assume produce even bigger spikes.

Taubes' book (which I started into a couple days ago) was written a decade ago (2008, I think?), and the science seems to be progressing pretty fast in this area, so maybe he didn't have access to that info at the time?

I do think Carbohydrate can drive appetite and that is something to consider in this, however while Beef is low on the Glycemic Index for blood sugar, it is high on the Insulin Index for those who think Insulin Resistance is an issue.

I'll have to watch that video. I'm still confused about exactly how insulin resistance operates. I get the basics, but I don't understand the subject as well as I'd like.

Dr. Berg's recommendation seems more to be Low - Carb Nutritious Vegetables and some Healthy Fats. Maybe vary Protein based on lifestyle or fitness goals. Also perhaps the combination of Low Carb and healthy Fiber can keep appetite in line or be less hard on the gut.

I actually recently bought a pack of grass fed beef, but I divided it up into small portions. I might try having meat as just a 3rd of my meals and having vegetables / mushrooms for the rest.

Lunch is still a challenge as I have to eat on the go in the damn work truck. I might try some snack options like baby carrots with hummus and very minimal beef jerky. I want to make 1 beef jerky bag last the whole week.

Good luck. Yeah, Berg is more veggie focused than I personally am going with. He did a vid on carnivore, which seemed poorly informed to me (he raised some concerns but didn't seem aware of the counters/explanations about those concerns -- check out his video on that, just search 'Eric Berg carnivore,' then look at the comments below the video, where people correct him). Overall, though, he seems to be on the right track with the high fat, low carb approach.

There seem to be a lot of different variations on the idea of a low-carb, high-fat way of eating. I'm sure a lot of variations can potentially work for different people. Let us know how it goes.

Is your main goal weight loss? Just curious. That was my initial motivation, but once I got into it, the other mental and physical benefits (mental sharpness, energy, mood, structural, etc.) have been just as, if not more, important.

 

[Viktor]

Damn this thread is almost has feisty as the politics one.

 

[Videodrome]

Is your main goal weight loss? Just curious. That was my initial motivation, but once I got into it, the other mental and physical benefits (mental sharpness, energy, mood, structural, etc.) have been just as, if not more, important.

My goal is mostly weight loss and feeling I'm in a better position to benefit from fitness with food that is tasty, optimal for weight loss, and nutritious.


Also, my occupation is truck driving and I feel stuck with it for now. I currently weigh 240. I also have high blood pressure managed by medication.

I might be moving south in search of work so I don't have to deal with driving in the damn snow and that might turn out to be Southern Regional which means go live in the truck for 5 days while driving between Georgia and Texas and home on the weekends. It could also mean logging in 12 hour work days. So before I try this job change, I'm look into ways to adjust my eating and figure out a better way to eat healthy on the road. Not all of these trucks are supplied with a fridge either, but I have a plug in cooler.

I'm leaning more toward mostly Low Carb Veggies either steamed or sauteed with butter or maybe Olive Oil. If I go back to the longhaul, I may think up portable ways to steam food. Some drivers use portable electric Crock Pots.

Depending on how this goes, I might see if I have room to fit a boxing Strike Bag in the truck. I think my favorite form of exercise is hitting a heavy bag.

Being a truck driver and managing weight and health is a challenge, but I'll see what I can come up with.

 

[Andy]

All right, man, let us know how it goes. It must be difficult to be a long-haul trucker and figure out how to eat healthy meals, when you're on the road all the time. That would be a challenge.

 

[aceattorney]

Lost another inch off the belly, totaling three inches gone. I weighed myself and estimate I lost about 15-20 pounds (I didn't regularly weigh myself before I started eating better).

I haven't gotten back to exercising, but I am going to start incorporating some push-ups, pull-ups, and crunches back into my daily routine. Nothing too much.

What do you all think about protein bars/shakes? I've been enjoying them as meal replacements when I'm too busy to eat a proper meal.

 

[Andy]

Lost another inch off the belly, totaling three inches gone. I weighed myself and estimate I lost about 15-20 pounds (I didn't regularly weigh myself before I started eating better).

I haven't gotten back to exercising, but I am going to start incorporating some push-ups, pull-ups, and crunches back into my daily routine. Nothing too much.

What do you all think about protein bars/shakes? I've been enjoying them as meal replacements when I'm too busy to eat a proper meal.

Congrats on the weight loss. That belly fat in particular is correlated with increased risk for heart disease, so it's good to feel it coming off. I'm tightening my belt a couple extra notches, too.

I don't have any need for protein bars/shakes, because I'm getting more than enough protein. Plus those bars/shakes often have ingredients I need to avoid.

 

[Viktor]

Lost another inch off the belly, totaling three inches gone. I weighed myself and estimate I lost about 15-20 pounds (I didn't regularly weigh myself before I started eating better).

I haven't gotten back to exercising, but I am going to start incorporating some push-ups, pull-ups, and crunches back into my daily routine. Nothing too much.

What do you all think about protein bars/shakes? I've been enjoying them as meal replacements when I'm too busy to eat a proper meal.

My breakfast usually consists of a Quest bar. Don't think they are specifically called a protein bar but they do have like 20g of protein and only 5g net carbs.

 

[Andy]

Learning more about this stuff, I'm going to try to pick fattier cuts of meat. I always heard it was best to pick fatty cuts of meat, but now I'm understanding the science of it better. The fat keeps you in ketosis, and if you eat a cut that's high in protein relative to fat, it can push up insulin levels -- not nearly as much as carbs do, but enough to potentially block ketosis.

If anyone's wondering what the fattier cuts of beef are, they are the rib cuts, tri-tip, porterhouse, top loin, and t-bone. The leaner cuts are things like tenderloin, eye round, skirt, flank, chuck, and brisket. It was funny to google the subject and see all the articles telling people that, to lose weight, you needed to avoid the high-fat cuts.

When it comes to chicken, btw, the thighs with skin on seem to be fattier. I've been eating chicken breasts, which do taste pretty lean, so I'll need to switch that up. I'm so programmed to throw away the skin (because it's got fat in it) that I'll need to change that habit, too.


Here's the beef cut chart, if anyone needs it:

 

[Videodrome]

I'm gonna just have a bacon, lard, offal smoothie.

 

[Andy]

I'm gonna just have a bacon, lard, offal smoothie.

lol, oh god. Is that where the word "awful" comes from?

 

[Videodrome]

Eat up caveman

Just don't think of it as 'offal' and call them 'sweet breads'.

For diabetics, would it be poetic to be eating pancreas?


Joking aside, I think a restaurant in my town does occasionally do a Liver & Onions dish. Maybe I'll give it a try.



http://paleo.com.au/tag/intestines/


As part of the Paleo diet, offal is encouraged as it is packed full of nutrients. The most nutritious is the liver, which is a good source of Vitamin A and the brain, which is rich in Omega 3. Offal also contains a lot of protein and iron, which is not only good for the functioning of your organs but is also good for making your appearance clearer and healthier.

The reason why the Paleo diet encourages the consumption of these organs is that they can offer a wide range of benefits to our health, including improving the immune system and staving off a whole host of illnesses which can result in someone with a poor diet. The point of the diet is to maximise the benefits of the foods we are eating, so even if they don’t seem like the kind of foods you would like, it is well worth giving them a try.

Liver Noms.

But where's my Fava Beans bitch?

 

[Andy]

I looked up "offal," and the first definition was "entrails and internal organs of an animal used as food." Other definitions were "refuse or waste material" and "decomposing animal flesh."

I have heard that our ancestors went for the organs first, because they are so nutrient dense. You'll hear that advice on carnivore forums, too -- to eat organ meats. I haven't made that leap myself yet. Can't get past the psychological barrier. Maybe someday I'll end up eating some brains, though. mmm, brains...


Btw, to contradict what I said above, I learned an hour ago that if you're eating a low-carb diet, you don't need to worry about protein spiking insulin levels. That's only a concern for people on the standard american diet. If you're eating lots of carbs, then eating protein will send your insulin sky high. Think of a cheeseburger and fries, for instance. High carbs + protein is a deadly combo.

But if you're eating low-carb, the metabolic processes are completely different, and insulin levels don't spike at all. I heard that fact mentioned by Dr. Ken Berry, and also in a talk by Dr. Ben Hikman, who went deeper into the science.

Here is that talk, if you're interested. His subject is how people on low-carb diets are unnecessarily afraid of protein. It's a pretty complicated talk, and you can go through it all if you like, but I cued it up to the what I think is the key research finding. He's talking about the insulin-glucagon ratio, which is a key metric, and how protein impacts that ratio, depending on what sort of food you are eating.





29:00 - 30:10 is also worth watching. He talks about the essential ingredients of ketogenesis.

 

[JinCA]

Learning more about this stuff, I'm going to try to pick fattier cuts of meat. I always heard it was best to pick fatty cuts of meat, but now I'm understanding the science of it better. The fat keeps you in ketosis, and if you eat a cut that's high in protein relative to fat, it can push up insulin levels -- not nearly as much as carbs do, but enough to potentially block ketosis.

If anyone's wondering what the fattier cuts of beef are, they are the rib cuts, tri-tip, porterhouse, top loin, and t-bone. The leaner cuts are things like tenderloin, eye round, skirt, flank, chuck, and brisket. It was funny to google the subject and see all the articles telling people that, to lose weight, you needed to avoid the high-fat cuts.

When it comes to chicken, btw, the thighs with skin on seem to be fattier. I've been eating chicken breasts, which do taste pretty lean, so I'll need to switch that up. I'm so programmed to throw away the skin (because it's got fat in it) that I'll need to change that habit, too.


Here's the beef cut chart, if anyone needs it:

I always call ahead to the butcher counter and ask them to cut some bone in rib eye's untrimmed for me, sadly they trim the fat off because people think they are getting ripped off when paying for the fat lol. Even if I wasn't doing LCHF I'd still want the fat left on during the cooking process, it gives the meat most of it's flavor. Rib eye fat tastes good too

 

[Bodhi]

I did the carnivore diet for a few weeks but it was hard to maintain. I will say the benefits were nearly immediate. After one week my mental clarity and energy were through the roof. I've now settle on a near zero low carb diet. I've also been doing beachbody Liift 4 program.

 

[Swede]

I looked up "offal," and the first definition was "entrails and internal organs of an animal used as food." Other definitions were "refuse or waste material" and "decomposing animal flesh."

I have heard that our ancestors went for the organs first, because they are so nutrient dense. You'll hear that advice on carnivore forums, too -- to eat organ meats. I haven't made that leap myself yet. Can't get past the psychological barrier. Maybe someday I'll end up eating some brains, though. mmm, brains...


Btw, to contradict what I said above, I learned an hour ago that if you're eating a low-carb diet, you don't need to worry about protein spiking insulin levels. That's only a concern for people on the standard american diet. If you're eating lots of carbs, then eating protein will send your insulin sky high. Think of a cheeseburger and fries, for instance. High carbs + protein is a deadly combo.

But if you're eating low-carb, the metabolic processes are completely different, and insulin levels don't spike at all. I heard that fact mentioned by Dr. Ken Berry, and also in a talk by Dr. Ben Hikman, who went deeper into the science.

Here is that talk, if you're interested. His subject is how people on low-carb diets are unnecessarily afraid of protein. It's a pretty complicated talk, and you can go through it all if you like, but I cued it up to the what I think is the key research finding. He's talking about the insulin-glucagon ratio, which is a key metric, and how protein impacts that ratio, depending on what sort of food you are eating.





29:00 - 30:10 is also worth watching. He talks about the essential ingredients of ketogenesis.

Guy looks healthy.

 

[Andy]

I did the carnivore diet for a few weeks but it was hard to maintain. I will say the benefits were nearly immediate. After one week my mental clarity and energy were through the roof. I've now settle on a near zero low carb diet. I've also been doing beachbody Liift 4 program.

Cool, glad to hear it. I haven't had too much trouble maintaining it myself, but I know others have different lifestyles and preferences. There are lots of variations of the low-carb or ketogenic way of eating, so everyone has to find their own comfort zone. I doubt I'll stick with pure carnivore forever. I plan to add back in some other foods after a while, and see how it goes. I may start with avocados.

My energy and alertness continue to be very good. Almost too good sometimes, to the point where I'll get carried away. A couple days ago, I felt so good I started tossing dishes around in the air in the kitchen, and I dropped one on the floor. Whoops. I also seem to get up well before dawn sometimes, and I feel well rested, which is kind of weird. I've always had to drag myself out of bed.

 

[Videodrome]

I'm not doing full carnivore.... yet.

I cut out bread and milk.

I'm having meat while trying to include a variety of veggies and greens. I am however thinking of cutting out Potatoes or other Starch Heavy foods like Bananas and Rice. Maybe Popcorn as well.

I may try to emphasize low carb veggies in my cooking, but maybe go ahead and have some carbs for breakfast. I was thinking of including Oatmeal for breakfast to keep fiber in my diet even though it has Carbs.

As it's the Fall season, I did pick up some Apple Cider though. Maybe I shouldn't buy that and just have black coffee if I want a hot drink as the weather gets cold.

My weight loss has slowed. I'll see if these changes make a difference.

 

[starseeker]

My friend tried the Canivore diet & the drop in weight is pretty big. So I will be testing the diet...

 

[Andy]

The thing that got me to try it was Jordan Peterson saying, "I thought, ''What the hell, I can do anything for a month. I can hang from a window ledge by my fingers for a month." (I'm pretty sure that part was hyperbole.) But the idea of just trying it for a month... I thought, 'Why not? I'm getting too fat, I need to do something." I like the experimental/weirdness of it, too, and the fact that there were thousands of positive anecdotes and no negative ones, including from people who'd been eating that way for years (since then, I've heard some stories of people who've gained weight or had some other issues, but it's been a small percentage).

The first week was tough -- coming off the carbs, the body shifting from carb-based energy to fat-based energy, all the changes in the gut biome, etc. I was mentally foggy that week. But once I got through that, the benefits were very obvious.

What seems clear to me is that eating low-carb, high fat is infinitely superior to the SAD. I'm not sure which version is "best." I don't think anyone does. I say do what works for you, what produces results. I am doing carnivore for now, because the results have been really good for me. I wouldn't necessarily recommend it to anyone, though, because it's pretty weird. I'm kind of weird, though, so it fits.

 

[Andy]

I am however thinking of cutting out Potatoes or other Starch Heavy foods like Bananas and Rice. Maybe Popcorn as well.

Yeah, that might be a good idea. I saw this yesterday:

 

[Videodrome]

The strange thing is people have done very well on a Potato diet. I wonder if Potatoes alone or Meat alone or maybe even Dairy alone can have good results in a Monodiet. Is this was Southeast Asians can have a diet with Rice as a prominent food?

There is a tendency to look at each food, isolate it, and see how the body reacts to it, but I wonder if some foods combined have different effects on digestion or send mixed signals to your metabolism.

I do know one combination of Potatoes and Bread is the worst for me.

So, I dunno. I had salmon for dinner with mushrooms, asparagus, bell pepper, onions, and some greens. I wonder if there is a difference between that and having only a salmon fillet besides cutting the minimal calories.

Actually, I may try cutting out all the Nightshade foods and see what that does. Then keep in some very basic plant based foods like onions, mushrooms, or asparagus, but cut out potato, tomato, and bell pepper.

 

[Andy]

The strange thing is people have done very well on a Potato diet. I wonder if Potatoes alone or Meat alone or maybe even Dairy alone can have good results in a Monodiet. Is this was Southeast Asians can have a diet with Rice as a prominent food?

I didn't realize people had done well on a potato diet. Would that be raw potatoes, or potatoes like we usually have them -- mashed, fried, baked and covered in sour cream, etc.? My mom (Irish) used to eat raw potatoes as snacks -- just cut into slices with some salt.

My impression, from what I've read and seen, is that grains became popular about 10K years ago, because they were much cheaper and easier to produce (vs. going out and hunting animals), and they fed a much bigger population than animals alone. Their nutritional content is much poorer than animal products, though. It was definitely a tradeoff of nutritional quality in order to support bigger populations.

I'd be nervous about eating just a single food (especially rice or potatoes). I realize I'm doing that with animal products now, but there's some reason to be ok with that particular choice (e.g., that's probably the primary food our species survived on for millenia, there are cultures who've done well eating that way for thousands of years, it's the most nutrient-dense food there is, etc.). I still take a multivitamin just to be on the safe side, and because I've always taken a multivitamin.

There is a tendency to look at each food, isolate it, and see how the body reacts to it, but I wonder if some foods combined have different effects on digestion or send mixed signals to your metabolism.

Yeah, that's a good point. Science is easier when you can isolate a single variable, but people don't usually eat just single foods. They do interact. Testing those interactions gets more complicated. Nutritional science seems like it's still a pretty young field, with a lot of unknowns.

Bikman did point out one combo to be aware of, in the video above -- combining protein with carbs. Eating protein by itself has a very different effect on the metabolism (insulin response) than eating protein with carbs. Maybe that depends on the type of carb, or the amount of carbs, I don't know. The research didn't look into it that deeply.

 

[Videodrome]

I didn't realize people had done well on a potato diet. .

Kevin Smith went Vegan after his heart attack and started by doing just plain baked potatoes for 2 weeks and dropping a lot of initial weight.

 

[Andy]

Heh, 2 weeks of straight potatoes. I'm glad he lost weight, but I wonder about the rest of it. The main issue to me is health, not just weight. I don't trust the vegan way of eating, because I've heard way too many stories of people suffering bad effects from it. And based on what I've heard/learned so far, I don't have any confidence in a diet that is focused almost entirely on grains and vegetables. I'm not saying you can't be vegan and healthy, or that people who go vegan don't get benefits (especially if they transition from the SAD), but I don't trust the vegan way of eating. Not to mention, some vegans are as fruity and nutty as their diet.

 

[Andy]

I've been reading two books lately, and I want to recommend one of them to anyone who wants a straightforward, easy to read, entertaining, and well-informed discussion of the low-carb, keto-based way of eating. It's called Eat Rich, Live Long, and it's by Ivor Cummins and Jeffrey Gerber. Cummins is an engineer who applied his problem-solving skills to the area of nutrition; he has done some great work (see his videos on Youtube or interviews on various podcasts). Jeff Gerber is a physician.

The book has 97% 5-star reviews on amazon. It condenses the information on keto/low-carb science into a concise, easy to read format. It's not science-heavy, loaded with technical terms or graphs. It's written for the average person. It does go more into the data, in the latter part of the book, if you're interested in that. The only downside I found is that it includes a set of recipes, which I don't care about, although others may.

Anyway, check it out if you want some good reading in this area:

Amazon product



I'm also reading Good Calories, Bad Calories, by Gary Taubes. I can't really recommend that, unless you are interested in all the details of how Ancel Keys and his cronies, physicians, government agencies, the food industry, the pharmaceutical industry, and journalism collaborated to lock in place the nutritional dogma that we've been saddled with for 30-40 years. That's an eye-opening tale, to be sure. It's tragic how easily science and public policy can be shaped by simplistic thinking, self-confirming biases, premature closure, politics, and money.

The reason I can't recommend that book is because it's so damn detailed. I have a research-oriented mind, but Taubes goes into way too much detail even for me. It's like a history of the science. I find myself skipping over sections of the book because I don't need to know things at the level of detail he presents.


If anyone has any good suggestions for books in this area, let us know.

 

[starseeker]

I am not 100% confidence of carnivore diet as there seems to be insufficient scientific results so far, although I seen great result & heard even more, with extremely few by % of poor result.

I am pretty convivence that reducing sugar, carbs & salt are safe bet, but I am not comfy to give up green vegetables & fruits. I will however make small but significant adjustments. Reducing sugary fruits like melons & mangos, & go for less sweetie ones like strawberries & berries. As for veg, I will change to lightly cooked like spinach with garlic/tomatoes for its easier to digest & less bitter.

As for meat, I will try to toggle between meat & fish, & eat the fat instead of removing them.

I will report my progress a few days later…

 

[Swede]

Heh, 2 weeks of straight potatoes. I'm glad he lost weight, but I wonder about the rest of it. The main issue to me is health, not just weight. I don't trust the vegan way of eating, because I've heard way too many stories of people suffering bad effects from it. And based on what I've heard/learned so far, I don't have any confidence in a diet that is focused almost entirely on grains and vegetables. I'm not saying you can't be vegan and healthy, or that people who go vegan don't get benefits (especially if they transition from the SAD), but I don't trust the vegan way of eating. Not to mention, some vegans are as fruity and nutty as their diet.

You are what you eat.

 

[Videodrome]

I'm wondering if there is more to this than Insulin response.

I read about this other plan after doing more Bro-Science Internet research called a Low FODMAP (Fermentable Oligosaccharides, Disaccharides, Monosaccharides and Polyols) plan. What all that basically says is Carbs or Fiber that are fermentable in the gut or consumed by either good or bad bacteria.

I'm wondering if the Carnivore Zero Carb Diet is also a Zero Fiber diet that can correct a gut biome imbalance by starving out or reducing bad bacteria as wells as reversing Good Bacteria over growth. If even Good Bacteria over growth gets into the small intestine it causes problems like slower digestion. Food moves more slowly and more calories are absorbed than normal so attempts to count normal calories will not be accurate.

I cut out starches like Bananas or Potatoes, but I've learned some foods like Asparagus, Onion, most Mushrooms, or Garlic are high fermentable foods. I've decided to try adjusting my diet to include Low FODMAP plant based foods. I just had an egg scramble with Feta Cheese and 1 diced tomato which is a low fermentable food. I'm also having dry red wine which is supposed to be Low Fermentable in the gut. With the eggs, I'm having Louisiana brand Cayenne hot sauce which doesn't have onion or garlic.

I have seen a little further weight loss, so it'll be interesting to see how this goes while keeping particular plant based foods.

Long term, I think shifting toward Carnivore could be a gut biome reset and later more plant based foods could be tried again. I think High FODMAP foods should be tried one at a time. If you find you can eat some High FODMAP foods without a resurgence of bad bacteria, it might be good for the good bacteria and having more nutrition.

The Sunset Limited probably thinks this all sounds batshi't, but maybe it explains people succeeding on Carnivore Dieting as well as how to approach reintroducing some plant based foods.


One other thing this leaves me wondering is if Fiber is healthy, but the recommended daily amounts are greatly exaggerated to counter-act the constipating effects of Fiber Fortified breads and cereals. I think to reach the recommended daily intake from natural foods would be something like 10 Apples a day. We create a situation where people start eating Fiber Fortified grain based foods or Fiber Bars. I'm wondering if these foods move poorly through the gut and if some people start thinking they just need more Fiber.