Days Gone (April 26)

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Andy

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Patrick Klepeck was dogging it worse than Gerstman though. You're also ignoring the fact that Gerstman and Klepeck both made references to the fact that the people around them weren't impressed either.

Face it, this has BOMBA written all over it.
You seem really invested in this game failing. And really invested in trying to convince other people that it's going to fail.

Why is that? Why is it so important to you to convince others that it's going to "BOMBA"?
 

NitX

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I don't really like Gerstman anyhow. He always sounds jaded, cynical, and negative.
This. I have never ever heard him say a good thing about a recent game.
 

Andy

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This. I have never ever heard him say a good thing about a recent game.
Yeah, he seems to get off on being negative. To me, that's an aspect of narcissism -- you enjoy looking down your nose at stuff.
 

The Sunset Limited

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You seem really invested in this game failing. And really invested in trying to convince other people that it's going to fail.

Why is that? Why is it so important to you to convince others that it's going to "BOMBA"?
I'm just intrigued with the defense force that's mobilized around this game. It's well known at this point that if a game recieves harsh criticism during previews/betas, it's most likely going to be a dud upon release. What's fascinating is that so many people here are sticking there head in the sand with this game because it was one they were looking forward to.

I also don't think uninspired game design should be rewarded in our industry.
 

Andy

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I'm just intrigued with the defense force that's mobilized around this game. It's well known at this point that if a game recieves harsh criticism during previews/betas, it's most likely going to be a dud upon release. What's fascinating is that so many people here are sticking there head in the sand with this game because it was one they were looking forward to.

I also don't think uninspired game design should be rewarded in our industry.
Who do you perceive as being in the "defense force"?

I agree that criticism during previews is not a good sign, but I disagree that it means the game is doomed, f*cked, BOMBA, and other language you've used. Most of the previews are positive, and the game has 10 months or so left in development. I think it's premature to say it's doomed, a bomb, etc. I think it's more intelligent to wait and see what develops.

"Inspired game design" is a subjective judgment, so that's not going anywhere. Your opinions expressed on a thread here do nothing to punish or reward Sony, so that doesn't wash.

So I'm just wondering why you feel the need to try to convince other people the game sucks and will bomb. What's in it for you? You're clearly not interested in balanced discussion. It's all hyperbole and 100% negative, which people can't engage.

It's hard for me to understand, because I'd never do it. I think plenty of games are junk, but I'd never hang around a thread and persistently say the game is trash, is doomed, is f*cked, is going to BOMBA, etc. If I did that, I'd feel like an ass.
 

The Sunset Limited

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Who do you perceive as being in the "defense force"?

I agree that criticism during previews is not a good sign, but I disagree that it means the game is doomed, f*cked, BOMBA, and other language you've used. Most of the previews are positive, and the game has 10 months or so left in development. I think it's premature to say it's doomed, a bomb, etc. I think it's more intelligent to wait and see what develops.

"Inspired game design" is a subjective judgment, so that's not going anywhere. Your opinions expressed on a thread here do nothing to punish or reward Sony, so that doesn't wash.

So I'm just wondering why you feel the need to try to convince other people the game sucks and will bomb. What's in it for you? You're clearly not interested in balanced discussion. It's all hyperbole and 100% negative, which people can't engage.

It's hard for me to understand, because I'd never do it. I think plenty of games are junk, but I'd never hang around a thread and persistently say the game is trash, is doomed, is f*cked, is going to BOMBA, etc. If I did that, I'd feel like an ass.
I think it's that, as I peruse this thread, I tend to trip on statements that I deem to be pretty close to objectionobley heinous. Take this for example...

The first ("eh, another zombie game") was my first reaction. I had to dig a little before I understood that the game wasn't "eh, just another blow-the-heads-off-the-zombies game"). Most people don't dig, though; they just form superficial impressions and stick with them.
Andy, Days Gone is not some complex vision that requires study and patience to unearth. This isn't a game that only you and a few others "get". This game isn't getting backlash because people like Jeff Gerstman, Patrick Klepeck, a variety of other media outlets and myself don't "get". It's getting backlash because everything about it looks bland as ****.

I take no issue with people who like Butt Rock. I really don't. I take issue when people speak of Butt Rock like it's anything more than that.

And yes "inspired game design" is a subjective judgment. It also happens a lot of people are using the same subjective judgements about Days Gone as myself. If you're that against subjective judgement, why aren't you telling everyone who says "Days Gone looks fun" to settle down? Why not turn the sword on yourself?

Artistic criticism isn't new, and I don't think it's going anywhere for a while.
 
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The Sunset Limited

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This. I have never ever heard him say a good thing about a recent game.
Go back a page and rewind the clip where he discusses Days Gone. Rewind about 15 minutes from that videos start point.

He pretty much gushes over Dreams, which to me, means 10x more than if the Easy Allies crew (who Andy thinks are reliable) does the same.
 
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Andy

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I think it's that, as I peruse this thread, I tend to trip on statements that I deem to be pretty close to objectionobley heinous. Take this for example...



Andy, Days Gone is not some complex vision that requires study and patience to unearth. This isn't a game that only you and a few others "get". This game isn't getting backlash because people like Jeff Gerstman, Patrick Klepeck, a variety of other media outlets and myself don't "get". It's getting backlash because everything about it looks bland as ****.

I take no issue with people who like Butt Rock. I really don't. I take issue when people speak of Butt Rock like it's anything more than that.

And yes "inspired game design" is a subjective judgment. It also happens a lot of people are using the same subjective judgements about Days Gone as myself. If you're that against subjective judgement, why aren't you telling everyone who says "Days Gone looks fun" to settle down? Why not turn the sword on yourself?

Artistic criticism isn't new, and I don't think it's going anywhere for a while.
So me, then. I'm the "defense force." And I'm "defense force" because I said I initially dismissed the game as "eh, just another zombie game," but I learned over time that there's more to it than that, and I said some people make superficial judgments about the game and some dig further. This to you is "defense force" and "objectively heinous." lol Whatever, man.

You like poking at me, for some reason. You also like to completely mischaracterize my position, which you do here several times. I guess it's your way of winning points in an argument, making the "opponent's" position look ridiculous. You're not arguing in good faith, so I'm not going to waste my time with it.

Here's what I would say. I'll probably enjoy Days Gone, based on what I've seen so far. It's not going to be a creative masterpiece, and it probably won't be my GOTY, but games don't need to be masterpieces and GOTYs to be fun and enjoyable. My expectations are pretty realistic, and I'll probably enjoy it as a result. In terms of broader reception, I think it'll get overall above average reviews, with plenty of people liking it and a fair number hating it. If I had to guess, I'd say metacritic will end up around 80-82, similar to how Detroit is doing. In terms of sales, it won't set the charts on fire, but it will do fine.
 

The Sunset Limited

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...and I said some people make superficial judgments about the game and some dig further.
No Andy, you said "most", not some. Interesting little word change there though. But I'm the one who doesn't argue in good faith right?

You suggested that people who were unimpressed with Days Gone hadn't dug deep enough and that their complaints were somehow superficial or I'll informed. That's insane, preposterous, that's...Trumpian.

The vast majority of your points and opinions check out on here. But you can't honestly tell me you'd prefer it if everyone let your more erroneous statements go by unchecked. Where's the fun in that?
 

yankeessuck

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I agree that any game that gets a legitimate number of negative previews is a cause for concern but it probably doesn't need amazing reviews to be a initial success. There seems to be real interest in the game based on the views it gets on youtube.

But this is obviously another case of Sunset wanting you to know how right he is and how superior that makes him
 

Andy

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No Andy, you said "most", not some. Interesting little word change there though. But I'm the one who doesn't argue in good faith right?
Oooo, some vs. most, you got me! I'm in trouble now! lol.

I'd actually stick with most. I think it's truism, actually -- most people do make superficial assessments of games. You only dig deeper with the ones you're interested in. I make superficial assessments/judgments of games all the time -- "eh, another racing game," "eh, another military shooter," "eh, another Dark Souls-ish game," "eh, another hero shooter," etc. I could give lots of examples. I think it's just human nature to make superficial assessments/judgments. If you're honest with yourself, you'll see that you do it all the time. I think most people do that with a lot of things. So yeah, "most" is more accurate.

You suggested that people who were unimpressed with Days Gone hadn't dug deep enough and that their complaints were somehow superficial or I'll informed. That's insane, preposterous, that's...Trumpian.
Why not compare me to Harvey Weinstein or Kim Jong Un while you're at it?

I don't mean that exploring further is going to necessarily impress people. Maybe after learning more, people still think it is bland and boring. That's fine. What I am trying to say is that if you explore further, you learn (or at least I learn) that it's not "just another zombie game." There are things that distinguish it from your normal "blow-the-heads-off-zombies" shooter (e.g., narrative, motorcycle, open world, some of the game mechanics, etc.).

The vast majority of your points and opinions check out on here. But you can't honestly tell me you'd prefer it if everyone let your more erroneous statements go by unchecked. Where's the fun in that?
If I'm batting 90%, I'm doing a hell of a lot better than you, my friend. Why don't you focus some of that critical scrutiny on your own statements, instead of putting mine under the microscope? You know -- get your own sh*t in order first, before you come after me? But I guess there's "no fun in that," is there?
 

Swede

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Game looks great imo
 

Andy

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Good video. My notes:

  • There's an easter egg related to Syphon Filter
  • We've only seen stuff from the first 90 minutes. The whole game is 30 hrs plus side content
  • It's Oregon-themed throughout. That's good to hear. I have family in Oregon and spent a lot of time there. It's beautiful. I was looking forward to a game set in a similar territory with Far Cry, but somehow the Far Cry wilderness didn't feel real to me. Maybe this will.
  • People in Oregon were f*cked up, and you'll see historical markers about that, which describe real events
  • They want it to be a "survival action" genre, with the survival stuff all moved over to the bike (not involving eating, sleeping, etc., like in PC survival games)
  • Limited ammo (plentiful, but not endless, so you have to be judicious)
  • You get access to new weapons by building trust with other camps
  • Different bolt types (e.g., beserker)
  • The horde are diseased Californians who are invading Oregon; it's based on real life (joke)
  • Freakers get smarter as the game progresses but never earn a college degree
  • They're planning post-launch content
  • They've got beer on tap in their kitchen
  • They're considering an Uncharted: Golden Abyss remaster.
  • A survival difficulty mode is in the cards.
  • John said he got in trouble for saying "early 2019," so now they just say "2019."
  • Committed to 30 fps
  • It doesn't show great in 20-min clips; you have to play it for a while to appreciate the gameplay loops.
  • John said the biggest misconception is that it's not a story-driven game. People think it's all about fighting the horde. No, "[story] is the most important thing." Otoh, he "hates spoilers," so he doesn't want to give any details. "There is so much story." What we've seen of the story only scratched the surface.
 

Frozpot

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Oh yeah, total bust material there! Nothing interesting AT ALL! Everyone is dogging this game! ;)

Seriously though. I wouldn't get too attached to these visuals. Something is probably going to get cut/downgraded in order to get the framerate under control, methinks. I just hope they don't cut down any of the physics based stuff.

Love what I've seen so far...
 

Hedon

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Sunset s***ting up another thread.

Game is looking better and better with each morsel of information.
 

The Sunset Limited

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Oooo, some vs. most, you got me! I'm in trouble now! lol.

I'd actually stick with most. I think it's truism, actually -- most people do make superficial assessments of games. You only dig deeper with the ones you're interested in. I make superficial assessments/judgments of games all the time -- "eh, another racing game," "eh, another military shooter," "eh, another Dark Souls-ish game," "eh, another hero shooter," etc. I could give lots of examples. I think it's just human nature to make superficial assessments/judgments. If you're honest with yourself, you'll see that you do it all the time. I think most people do that with a lot of things. So yeah, "most" is more accurate.
First of all, words matter, and yes, in this context changing your stance from "most" to "some" matters a lot and points to a shifting stance on your end.

Second of all, you're way better than this. The definition of superficial that I suspect we're both using is..."appearing to be true or real only until examined more closely." Are you saying that those who have negative impressions of the game are going to change their tune once they get more hands on time with it? If history is any indication, this probably won't happen. Gerstman probably won't like it. Klepeck probably won't like it. I probably won't like it. I'd love to be proven wrong but the odds are fairly well established at this point.

All in all, I'm not sure if we should be classifying negative previews as "superficial" when they've basically become the canary in the coal mine for upcoming games.

Why not compare me to Harvey Weinstein or Kim Jong Un while you're at it?
I used creative license on a game message board. My lawyers are readying their defense for the inevitable suit headed my way. Regardless, you attempted to discredit people who had a different opinion than you. Our Commander in Chief has done that once or twice, I think.

I don't mean that exploring further is going to necessarily impress people. Maybe after learning more, people still think it is bland and boring. That's fine. What I am trying to say is that if you explore further, you learn (or at least I learn) that it's not "just another zombie game." There are things that distinguish it from your normal "blow-the-heads-off-zombies" shooter (e.g., narrative, motorcycle, open world, some of the game mechanics, etc.).
I think you underestimate your fellow industry fans here. I can't speak for all, but I suspect most knew this was going to be a Last of Us (zombies, story heavy, tone) crossed with Horizon (open world, light stealth) mash up. I don't think "digging deeper" is going to yield anything meaningful for most of us critics at this point.



If I'm batting 90%, I'm doing a hell of a lot better than you, my friend. Why don't you focus some of that critical scrutiny on your own statements, instead of putting mine under the microscope? You know -- get your own sh*t in order first, before you come after me? But I guess there's "no fun in that," is there?
Isn't that like telling a coarse block of wood to smooth it's edges down before interacting with sandpaper? I'm not sure how effective that's going to be.

I interact with you in large part, to get a better understanding of my own thoughts.

Andy, you are phenomenal member here. By my account, 2018 will be your 4th consecutive UnionVGF member of the year honor. (Valliance beat everyone by a landslide in 2014) However, this, to me, does not appear to be your finest outing.

I will say this, and not enough is made about this regarding Sony, but it sounds like Sony Bend isn't even committing to first half 2019 anymore. If this turns into a Q3 or Q4 2019 game then this conversation is even less relevant than it already is. Sony has supported it's game makers better than I've ever seen them, which bodes well for Days Gone.
 

Andy

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First of all, words matter, and yes, in this context changing your stance from "most" to "some" matters a lot and points to a shifting stance on your end.
Who cares. I stuck by my original statement anyhow.

Second of all, you're way better than this.
Thanks for encouraging me to be a better person. That means a lot.

[....]Isn't that like telling a coarse block of wood to smooth it's edges down before interacting with sandpaper? I'm not sure how effective that's going to be.
Yeah, you're right -- asking you to engage in self-examination is like talking to a block of wood.
 

Hedon

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Who cares. I stuck by my original statement anyhow.



Thanks for encouraging me to be a better person. That means a lot.



Yeah, you're right -- asking you to engage in self-examination is like talking to a block of wood.
Man, you are such a turnip Andy! :hehe:
 

Andy

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Release date announced: Feb. 22nd.

 

the_slayer

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Can't wait for this game, what a great time of the year to release it!!!!...some light after the Christmas period has ended!!
 

Ricker

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Great trailer...that screaming whatever they call them in this game(skreechers?)lady is great and the bear running away from the horde is a nice touch also.
 

Hedon

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Release date announced: Feb. 22nd.

I know EVERY GAME could use more polish, but I wonder if this was another case of avoiding RDR2 this fall. So really, in the end, it is a win win. More polish, better chance for the game to get the audience it needs, more money for Sony.
 

wshowers

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I say I don't like like zombie games but this and SOD2 are changing my opinion.
 

Hedon

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I say I don't like like zombie games but this and SOD2 are changing my opinion.
Would you do a Left4Dead 3? That we will never get? :)
 
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wshowers

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Would you do a Left4Dead 3? That we will never get? :)
Nah too multiplayer centric for me. You'll get it eventually. It'll be bundled with a demo for Half life 3.
 

Andy

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I know EVERY GAME could use more polish, but I wonder if this was another case of avoiding RDR2 this fall.
I've heard that it was ahead of schedule, but they delayed it to give it a better "opportunity" (which is code for "RDR 2 is releasing! Run away!").
 

JinCA

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That's the best trailer they've put out for the game so far IMO.