Destiny 2

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Digital Joker

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Sep 22, 2013
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Is there someone who can help me with the Whisper of Worm event this weekend?
I practiced the run today a few times solo but I'll need help beating the mobs and bosses.
 

VaLLiancE

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Is there someone who can help me with the Whisper of Worm event this weekend?
I practiced the run today a few times solo but I'll need help beating the mobs and bosses.
Sure hit me up
 

Kerosene31

What happened to the American Dream? It came true.
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Sep 12, 2013
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I'll have to try this on PC. For some reason I've just never had the urge to play this on PC. I'm always on console for this even though my PC should run it well.
 

VaLLiancE

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It plays great on PC but i prefer the PS4 extras.
Need cross saves bad.
 

Kerosene31

What happened to the American Dream? It came true.
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Activision said that Forsaken didn't meet sales expectations. People are taking that as a failure. It still sold great and was well received. Who knows how much they missed their targets by or if they were just overly optimistic. It still must have made a lot of money. If anything, the big problem is probably all the development effort comes at a cost.

The biggest flaw with Forsaken is it is too much grind with too little reward. I'm still playing but man is the burnout factor high on it. I've got 4 new exotics, and based on what I see that's quite lucky. People are hitting 600 and still missing many exotics. There's just not enough gear to justify the grind. Sure, D1 was tough, but you'd get little rewards along the way.

I'm like 560 on one character and I'm pretty much done. I just unlocked my last class ability. I'm sure a lot of casuals checked out a long time ago.

Anytime I have a couple spare hours I choose to play something else. I just feel like the chance of getting something good is just too low. I'm not afraid of a grind, but this one is just boring.

I have to imagine that their microtransaction sales are disappointing too. It is so easy to earn free eververse engrams. With the game being so grindy, anyone who is still playing regularly has tons of Eververse stuff.
 

Kerosene31

What happened to the American Dream? It came true.
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Swede

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How bungie feels about their fans;

Eurogamer: So it may seem like a small thing but you're adding exclusive content to the game - three new dance emotes - that players can't get unless they rebuy the main game and the two existing DLCs. Is that right?

Luke Smith: There is no way right now for you to get the new dance emotes without doing that. Those are Collector's Edition exclusive. We've set some stuff aside for that edition specifically to really make it appeal to fans who have engaged with the game already and also to people that will enter the game this autumn.

Eurogamer: Can you see that some fans are confused that you're asking them to buy stuff they already own?

Luke Smith: Yeah, I can totally empathise with those people. But the Collector's Edition is a pretty cool package for people who want to pursue that stuff. Otherwise, surely what you're saying is that you would want to buy them separately, right?

Eurogamer: Well, yeah. I would rather do that - pay a few pounds or dollars or whatever - than spend money on things I already own.

Luke Smith: [Laughs] Well, we have nothing more to talk about regarding your opportunity to spend extra money in Destiny, other than The Taken King and the three versions we've announced.

Eurogamer: Is Bungie considering selling customisation items such as this separately? Or is that against the studio's philosophy for the game?

Luke Smith: Rather than comment on the Bungie philosophy, here's what I'll tell you. If someone made a golf clap emote, I would spend money on that. Like when someone falls in the Vault of Glass. At the moment I bow when I'm trying to mess with them. So... I empathise with some of the things you're saying.

Eurogamer: I feel like you should put some of these things that you are empathising with into practice.

Luke Smith: We have nothing to announce today. We're reading the forums and the reactions to this week's announcements. We will continue to discuss player feedback with respect to the the game and Collector's Edition content.

Eurogamer: Taken King costs £39.99, which is almost same as base game. Does its content justify that?

Luke Smith: I'm going to use American dollars, because British pounds are just foreign to me...

Eurogamer: Literally foreign.

Luke Smith: Indeed, an ocean away. So, purchasers get a big, rich campaign. Fully voiced cinematics and the story of what happens when an angry alien god wages war on a solar system, all with a satisfying conclusion. You also have a new subclass to pursue and unlock. We also have a bunch of new strikes - we're not yet talking about how many - and a new raid. We're showing two new PVP modes and four PVP maps this week, and it's a fairly safe bet we're not done yet showing things off. So I'm fairly excited about the value proposition. We're calling this a major expansion because it is. We're giving people a whole new place to go, that new destination...

Eurogamer: I get that it is big but it is also the same price as the base game. That had four areas rather than one and more missions than the Taken King. Why is it the same price?

Luke Smith: All I can do is answer that with the same thing I just gave you... We're really comfortable with the value we're giving to players this autumn. I believe that once we begin to share more, players will be even more excited. And for existing players it also comes with the Founder's pack with a new Sparrow, shader and emblem.

Oryx, father of Crota. He isn't too pleased with you.

Eurogamer: Just not the emotes.

Luke Smith: It doesn't because they come with the Collector's Edition.

Eurogamer: Final question on prices -

Luke Smith: Is it also the final question on the emotes?

Eurogamer: I'm not going to mention them again. I can't get them.

Luke Smith: But you can if you buy the Collector's Edition.

Eurogamer: I'm not going to buy the game and the two DLCs all over again.

Luke Smith: Okay, but first I want to poke at you on this a little bit.

Eurogamer: Poke at me?

Luke Smith: You're feeling anxious because you want this exclusive content but you don't know yet how much you want it. The notion of spending this money is making you anxious, I can see it -

Eurogamer: I do want them. I would buy them -

Luke Smith: If I fired up a video right now and showed you the emotes you would throw money at the screen.

Eurogamer: What I'm saying is that fan frustration is not because they don't understand the proposition. It comes regardless of how cool the exclusive content is. The frustration - and mine as a fan - is that the method of acquiring it requires me to re-buy content I bought a year ago.

Luke Smith: [Long pause] It's about value. The player's assessment of the value of the content.

Eurogamer: Final question on prices - The Taken King and everything released so far comes at a significant price reduction for people who want to jump in to Destiny this September. All games do Game of the Year editions now - I understand that, that's not really an issue. But when you look at the reduction involved - it's barely any more than just buying The Taken King solo.

Luke Smith: This autumn we want to have a moment of convergence where players like you and me who are engaged with Destiny can match up with people who are just joining in, who didn't pick the game up last year for one reason.

It's also important to remember the temporal valuation of content. If you played during The Dark Below, you were playing when there were Swordbearers everywhere. That's now gone and you can't recapture that now. Some things are being left behind as we move forward. It's the same with House of Wolves, right now, with the Fallen showing up all over the solar system. Those things are going to be less relevant as we move forward and the Taken are everywhere.

We don't have a way to go back in time and experience those things again. So the players who were there can say 'I was here when...' and 'I did it when it was new'.

I wish I had a way of better telling players that I was there back then. That I had a better way of embracing the legacy of my time with the game. This is something that we on the development team talk about all the time. It's really important that we figure out ways to embrace the legacy that players created in the first year... I'm not going to talk about how we're going to do that but it is right in the forefront of our brains. It's missing right now in Destiny.

https://www.eurogamer.net/articles/...-king-director-defends-40-expansion-price-tag
 

Spiritech

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Dec 27, 2014
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Activision said that Forsaken didn't meet sales expectations. People are taking that as a failure. It still sold great and was well received. Who knows how much they missed their targets by or if they were just overly optimistic. It still must have made a lot of money. If anything, the big problem is probably all the development effort comes at a cost.

The biggest flaw with Forsaken is it is too much grind with too little reward. I'm still playing but man is the burnout factor high on it. I've got 4 new exotics, and based on what I see that's quite lucky. People are hitting 600 and still missing many exotics. There's just not enough gear to justify the grind. Sure, D1 was tough, but you'd get little rewards along the way.

I'm like 560 on one character and I'm pretty much done. I just unlocked my last class ability. I'm sure a lot of casuals checked out a long time ago.

Anytime I have a couple spare hours I choose to play something else. I just feel like the chance of getting something good is just too low. I'm not afraid of a grind, but this one is just boring.

I have to imagine that their microtransaction sales are disappointing too. It is so easy to earn free eververse engrams. With the game being so grindy, anyone who is still playing regularly has tons of Eververse stuff.

Yea Destiny feels offputting to much now if your not playing it all the time. The grind plus the time gated events or availability of items has driven me away for the most part. I'm busy these days and like to play at my own pace. Destiny kind of gives off a play at it's own pace or gtfo vibe.
 

Kerosene31

What happened to the American Dream? It came true.
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Yea Destiny feels offputting to much now if your not playing it all the time. The grind plus the time gated events or availability of items has driven me away for the most part. I'm busy these days and like to play at my own pace. Destiny kind of gives off a play at it's own pace or gtfo vibe.
That's it exactly. Destiny was always really good at not making you feel behind. Players could progress at their own pace. Other than things like the highest competitive PVP, levels didn't matter (much or at all).

With Forsaken that all changed. The soft cap is really low, meaning the casual can't progress very far. Iron Banner and Gambit make level matter (Gambit for the PVP side only but that's still huge). Plus you can't even effectively do things in the Dreaming City until you are 540+ (I just started to be able do things there a few weeks back).

In order to level up quickly, you need to put in 2-4 hours a day. You need to farm prime engrams plus do every activity. For most of us, we play other games and even us hardcore gamers aren't playing that much. I love gaming, but on a weeknight I might get an hour to play tops.

Datto (one of the big Destiny youtubers who's actually good), made a video ranking Titan exotics. He had to get footage from other players, because even he doesn't have many exotics yet. This is a guy who basically plays the game all day for a living and he is missing many exotics. I'm not just talking about one or two "white whales" that RNG does't drop for you, but many. Does that scream out a problem to anyone else? It sure does me.

I certainly don't want everything handed to me at the start, but this shifted too far the other way. I would love to see the numbers of players in the game. I know the heavy hardcore crowd loves it, but I bet the casuals are drifting away, especially with so many big games dropping now.
 

Kerosene31

What happened to the American Dream? It came true.
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Just a heads up for anyone who is looking at the new "DLC".

Do not buy unless you are 600 right now. Basically, the latest DLC has no missions and basically just a few very high level quests. The min level to start is like 620. Even Youtubers like Datto are struggling to even try the tiny bit of new content.

So, if you haven't bought, avoid for now. I'm still not sure what I even bought with this DLC. Basically a single horde mode that I need to level up 40 more points to even attempt (that will take 2 months+).

Needless to say, check out some of the complaints on Reddit before you buy. I'm screwed because like an idiot I bought the pass with Forsaken.

It is one thing to add a high level, endgame thing to a DLC. Warmind had Escalation Protocol which took a long time to get to. That had tons of other content though. Black Armory has nothing except a weapon quest that gets dribbled out over the weeks.

Bungie clearly has no more content for this game, so they are pushing what little they have in tiny drips.
 

menace-uk-

Division Agent
Sep 11, 2013
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Just a heads up for anyone who is looking at the new "DLC".

Do not buy unless you are 600 right now. Basically, the latest DLC has no missions and basically just a few very high level quests. The min level to start is like 620. Even Youtubers like Datto are struggling to even try the tiny bit of new content.

So, if you haven't bought, avoid for now. I'm still not sure what I even bought with this DLC. Basically a single horde mode that I need to level up 40 more points to even attempt (that will take 2 months+).

Needless to say, check out some of the complaints on Reddit before you buy. I'm screwed because like an idiot I bought the pass with Forsaken.

It is one thing to add a high level, endgame thing to a DLC. Warmind had Escalation Protocol which took a long time to get to. That had tons of other content though. Black Armory has nothing except a weapon quest that gets dribbled out over the weeks.

Bungie clearly has no more content for this game, so they are pushing what little they have in tiny drips.
Saw this coming a very long time a go. It is why I uninstalled D2.
 

Kerosene31

What happened to the American Dream? It came true.
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Saw this coming a very long time a go. It is why I uninstalled D2.
Yep, it is a massive mess. Destiny always has problems, but they clearly have a major one. Streamers like Datto still don't even have all the exotics yet (or last I checked). He made a video on Titan exotics and used footage from other players because he doesn't have all the exotics from Forsaken yet. WTF? The guy plays the game as a full time job and doesn't have anything?

I wish I saw it coming sooner. Forsaken was fun even though the content drip was terrible.

Now at 581 there's literally nothing I can do other than grind the same old content (which I've already played through).

Activision is the new EA without a doubt in my mind.
 

Lord Majestic

Anormaly
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Sep 11, 2013
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Saw this coming a very long time a go. It is why I uninstalled D2.
That's is why I didn't buy the annual pass. I just don't trust bungie at this point. Also Forsaken (very good dlc) was done mostly by another studio as well as warmind. This is why activision is upset, they had to foot the bill to get the other studios to help bungie out with warmind and forsaken. The annual pass is bungie live team work with the rest of bungie working on destiny 3.
 
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Lord Majestic

Anormaly
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Sep 11, 2013
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Yep, it is a massive mess. Destiny always has problems, but they clearly have a major one. Streamers like Datto still don't even have all the exotics yet (or last I checked). He made a video on Titan exotics and used footage from other players because he doesn't have all the exotics from Forsaken yet. WTF? The guy plays the game as a full time job and doesn't have anything?

I wish I saw it coming sooner. Forsaken was fun even though the content drip was terrible.

Now at 581 there's literally nothing I can do other than grind the same old content (which I've already played through).

Activision is the new EA without a doubt in my mind.
And I have a great fear for bioware because anthem is destiny clone and there are some dedicated bioware fans like myself who may not buy the game based the info of the game so far. I will still buy it but EA expectations for anthem may doom bioware.
 

menace-uk-

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Yep, it is a massive mess. Destiny always has problems, but they clearly have a major one. Streamers like Datto still don't even have all the exotics yet (or last I checked). He made a video on Titan exotics and used footage from other players because he doesn't have all the exotics from Forsaken yet. WTF? The guy plays the game as a full time job and doesn't have anything?

I wish I saw it coming sooner. Forsaken was fun even though the content drip was terrible.

Now at 581 there's literally nothing I can do other than grind the same old content (which I've already played through).

Activision is the new EA without a doubt in my mind.
Was it fun? The end game world was no different than any other. The strikes were forgetable and completely irrelevant. The whole power gear set up was exactly the same but presented different. Didn't do anyghing with flashpoints. It lacked weapons. Half the low content quantity was rehashed D1 D2 stuff. The story was terrible. The randomness of loot added on top of random rolls made it tedious to get shat you wanted. Gambit was boring and super repetitive. Crucible was a mess.

By all accounts I think Forsaken was pretty bad.
 

menace-uk-

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And I have a great fear for bioware because anthem is destiny clone and there are some dedicated bioware fans like myself who may not buy the game based the info of the game so far. I will still buy it but EA expectations for anthem may doom bioware.
I am not buying Anthem.

I will get Division 2.
 

Kerosene31

What happened to the American Dream? It came true.
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Was it fun? The end game world was no different than any other. The strikes were forgetable and completely irrelevant. The whole power gear set up was exactly the same but presented different. Didn't do anyghing with flashpoints. It lacked weapons. Half the low content quantity was rehashed D1 D2 stuff. The story was terrible. The randomness of loot added on top of random rolls made it tedious to get shat you wanted. Gambit was boring and super repetitive. Crucible was a mess.

By all accounts I think Forsaken was pretty bad.
You're right, it isn't very fun. I do enjoy Gambit, but that's about it. Even that I am only playing for the pinnacle weapon. It is fun but not fun enough to carry the game. PVP has just been awful since day 1 and they seem to have no idea how to fix it. I haven't done a strike in weeks.

Honestly I think I'm done buying these kinds of games at launch. Maybe I'll check out Div 2 in a year or so when there's a "gold" version. I feel like a beta tester at this point, except I pay to preview the game.
 

Spiritech

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This is so very tiring. Its not like they could't have run queries to figure out how many would have to do quite a bit of work to play Black Armory and how many of those were likely to hop on for the new DLC. And given how they've irritated their base in the past you would think they would try not to do that so much but every time its like "oh lets see how mad they get first".
 

menace-uk-

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This is so very tiring. Its not like they could't have run queries to figure out how many would have to do quite a bit of work to play Black Armory and how many of those were likely to hop on for the new DLC. And given how they've irritated their base in the past you would think they would try not to do that so much but every time its like "oh lets see how mad they get first".
You really think they didn't know already?

This is a terrible attempt at trying to give the impression an endgame actually exists. I'm sorry, but grinding for a power level cap that is practically irrelevant is not an endgame. It is actually one of the big problems with D2. It is slow, boring, tedious and very unrewarding.

Then add in that weapons in general are not very exciting or unique and aren't very many overall.

. Now factor in that armour is dull in design, all the same ever since day 1 D1...and still nothing much more than cosmetic items. Most of the exotics in the game are junk.

All the events and activities are the same damn thing. Blind well, Gambit, Forges are just slighly tweake variations of old D1stuff like POE and court of oryx. Strikes are just irrelevant, nightfalls are just exactly the same strikes.

It is actually mind boggling at how little new stuff there is in D2+ 3 DLCs +an expansion. None of which rectified the big issues from D1 or even from vanilla D2. How Bungie gets it so wrong everytime is beyond me.
 

Kerosene31

What happened to the American Dream? It came true.
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Sep 12, 2013
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This is so very tiring. Its not like they could't have run queries to figure out how many would have to do quite a bit of work to play Black Armory and how many of those were likely to hop on for the new DLC. And given how they've irritated their base in the past you would think they would try not to do that so much but every time its like "oh lets see how mad they get first".
Bungie knows exactly what they are doing. They know they have almost no content in this DLC, so they are letting it out in a slow drip. If they don't put time constraints in it, people would be "done" with it by this weekend.

They've been slowly doing this for a while now.

They simply can't create enough content to make a proper loot game. They've been bringing in multiple studios and supposedly their revenues are disappointing. Forsaken seemed to actually sell well, which makes me think they are just pumping tons of money into it and not getting it back out.

Of course, I have no idea why from a business standpoint they think turning their backs on the large group of casual fans is a good thing.
 

menace-uk-

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Bungie knows exactly what they are doing. They know they have almost no content in this DLC, so they are letting it out in a slow drip. If they don't put time constraints in it, people would be "done" with it by this weekend.

They've been slowly doing this for a while now.

They simply can't create enough content to make a proper loot game. They've been bringing in multiple studios and supposedly their revenues are disappointing. Forsaken seemed to actually sell well, which makes me think they are just pumping tons of money into it and not getting it back out.

Of course, I have no idea why from a business standpoint they think turning their backs on the large group of casual fans is a good thing.
It's their s***ty engine.

Don't worry, though. Activision has the answer and will save the game...by monotizing it more. Pay $5 to play a strike once anybody?...anybody...hello........I'll take that as a no.
 

Kerosene31

What happened to the American Dream? It came true.
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It's their s***ty engine.
Yep. It is the only logical explanation of why we have so little loot. People have been asking for strike specific loot for a long time now. Why is that so hard to create? They've already got the random rolls. They obviously struggle to create this stuff.

Bungie knows what we want. It is clear they simply can't produce. I've been using the same 3-4 guns since Forsaken launch. There's nothing else to use.
 

VaLLiancE

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Its laziness.
They did it with Halo and now with Destiny.