Detroit: Become Human

I'm not really fan of Cage's gameplay interface. But I love the fact that these games are being made. David Cage is important to the industry.

I admire his vision even if I'm not a fan of adventure games. But he does it with such style that I'm always tempted or suckered in, only to realize that I'm simply not a fan.

Maybe this is the game that hits that middle ground for me? It looks insane.

My experience with the last two Cage games has been that they look fascinating, pre-release -- very imaginative and promising -- but then they actual game doesn't deliver; it stumbles in the execution somehow. That's really been true of all 3 of his games, but I gave the first one a pass because the approach felt so new.

Anyhow, I'm reserving judgment. It's easy to get swept into the hype of David Cage games -- the graphics are usually stunning, and the way they sell the game is appealing. I just don't trust the hype, at this point. It's sort of like with Molynuts, only not as bad.

The Dreamfall series trumps all of their games ....

Based on what I've heard from those who've played it, the new Dreamfall: Chapters is a letdown. That's discouraging, because I was looking forward to it, after enjoying the second (Dreamfall: Longest Journey) a long time ago. Chapters may be released on PS4 at some point -- they said that was the plan, way back when, but I've grown disillusioned, based on what I've heard.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Dno69
My experience with the last two Cage games has been that they look fascinating, pre-release -- very imaginative and promising -- but then they actual game doesn't deliver; it stumbles in the execution somehow. That's really been true of all 3 of his games, but I gave the first one a pass because the approach felt so new.

Anyhow, I'm reserving judgment. It's easy to get swept into the hype of David Cage games -- the graphics are usually stunning, and the way they sell the game is appealing. I just don't trust the hype, at this point. It's sort of like with Molynuts, only not as bad.



Based on what I've heard from those who've played it, the new Dreamfall: Chapters is a letdown. That's discouraging, because I was looking forward to it, after enjoying the second (Dreamfall: Longest Journey) a long time ago. Chapters may be released on PS4 at some point -- they said that was the plan, way back when, but I've grown disillusioned, based on what I've heard.

I was going to make the Molyneux comparison but didn't want to disrespect either man.

PM was a major factor in the industry early on. Hopefully Cage can have that kind of impact. I think he can. He's close. Imo

I'd love to see some VR stuff from him. It seems like a perfect combination.
 
Last edited:
Based on what I've heard from those who've played it, the new Dreamfall: Chapters is a letdown. That's discouraging, because I was looking forward to it, after enjoying the second (Dreamfall: Longest Journey) a long time ago. Chapters may be released on PS4 at some point -- they said that was the plan, way back when, but I've grown disillusioned, based on what I've heard.
That's a shame. I really enjoyed the first two. I hate that this game series was too niche to not need kickstarter for a new sequel.
 
I was going to make the Molyneux comparison but didn't want to disrespect either man.

PM was a major factor in the industry early on. Hopefully Cage can have that kind impact. I think he can. He's close. Imo

I'd love to see some VR stuff from him. It seems like a perfect combination.

I don't mind insulting them. I don't think they're listening.

A Cage VR game would be great. He could take awkward shower scenes to a whole new level.
 
hqdefault.jpg


My only thought through out the whole thing: GATTACA!
 
Damn Amazon tricked me on this one just like Sea of Theives. I thought it was coming out this month on the 29th as I preordered it after E3 and that was the release date Amazon listed until they just changed it to Dec 2017.

They need to stop putting in placeholder dates or at least say they are such.
 
Damn Amazon tricked me on this one just like Sea of Theives. I thought it was coming out this month on the 29th as I preordered it after E3 and that was the release date Amazon listed until they just changed it to Dec 2017.

They need to stop putting in placeholder dates or at least say they are such.
...Or you know, just don't pre-order the game? :p You could have been gaining interest on that money! :p

That trailer is amazing. We saw 6-7 outcomes for one scene. I wonder if they'll actually be significant in the overall story though.

Developers are still perfecting the story telling arc of consequences.
 
Amazon doesn't charge for pre-orders until the game ships and no down payment like Gamestop.

I just don't understand last E3 that announced all these games that were apparently over a year away at the time. And then Amazon jumped the gun making all those announced titles available to preorder.

Speaking of which, whatever happened to that cool PS4 game called Dreams? Haven't seen diddly on it since E3.
 
Amazon doesn't charge for pre-orders until the game ships and no down payment like Gamestop.

I just don't understand last E3 that announced all these games that were apparently over a year away at the time. And then Amazon jumped the gun making all those announced titles available to preorder.

Speaking of which, whatever happened to that cool PS4 game called Dreams? Haven't seen diddly on it since E3.

Dreams was announced along with the PS4 in February 2013. It definitely won't be out by February 2017. Generally speaking your AAA game should take no more then 3 years this gen (up from 2 years last gen), so this will come in closer to 5 years development....which is ridiculous...only GTA can get away with that and even then it was supplimented by Red Dead Redemption.

IMO both Media Molecule and SuckerPunch will likely suffer the same fate as Evolution studios. Either shut down or sold off. They are taking too long to get things made.
 
Last edited:
Dreams was announced along with the PS4 in February 2013. It definitely won't be out by February 2017. Generally speaking your AAA game should take no more then 3 years this gen (up from 2 years last gen), so this will come in closer to 5 years development....which is ridiculous...only GTA can get away with that and even then it was supplimented by Red Dead Redemption.

IMO both Media Molecule and SuckerPunch will likely suffer the same fate as Evolution studios. Either shut down or sold off. They are taking too long to get things made.
I had to YouTube to remember what the game was. It sure is pretty after the game is running.

But not many of those games making games seem to thrive in the 3D space.
 
Heard it could be a 2017 game, now who knows? Whatever, take your time Quantic Dream. Rome wasn't built in a day.
 
Still haven't played Beyond Two Souls. Grabbed it for like $5 on PS3 at some point but I'll have to get it again for PS4.
 
From an interview with Cage.

"I tried to put in a choice each time it was possible, and see where it would lead me. It was really scary in the writing process, because you end up with charts and diagrams that end up looking like hell." The script ended up over 2,000 pages long.

Cage clarified that he wants to have real consequences, even if that means potentially sacrificing scenes altogether during a single playthrough.

"It was important for me not to use smoke and mirrors, because in this genre it is every easy to do it and say this choice has tremendous consequences but really it doesn’t. It had a cost in production to sayOkay, we’re going to produce scenes that maybe 20% of the players will see in their first playthrough, but let’s do it, because that 20% will talk about it with someone else. They will compare their stories and realize they are totally different."

The plot will be focused on three androids: Kara (played by Valorie Curry), Connor (played by Bryan Dechart), and Markus (played by Jesse Williams). All of them will be playable and may die at any point in the story and the game will progress accordingly.

http://wccftech.com/cage-choice-every-time-possible-detroit/


Sounds interesting. Cage always did the choice & consequence thing well, better than most other games.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Dno69 and Frozpot
Sounds like you can really shape the story yourself like no other game we've seen. I can picture Cage losing his mind while making a game like this and having to pull back a bit before it really gets out of control, lol.

Can't wait for Detroit, it's looking awesome.
 
Dreams was announced along with the PS4 in February 2013. It definitely won't be out by February 2017. Generally speaking your AAA game should take no more then 3 years this gen (up from 2 years last gen), so this will come in closer to 5 years development....which is ridiculous...only GTA can get away with that and even then it was supplimented by Red Dead Redemption.

IMO both Media Molecule and SuckerPunch will likely suffer the same fate as Evolution studios. Either shut down or sold off. They are taking too long to get things made.

Sucker Punch released a game and an expansion in 2014, they also got a new mo cap studio in 2015, they don't make little games so it'll take time. Last I read Media Molecule was just over 50 employees so it's hardly breaking the bank, still not sure what's up with dreams but they likely aren't being rushed. Also it was announced at E3 2015 not the PS4 reveal in 2013, they had some kind of demonstration at the reveal but that wasn't dreams.
 
Sucker Punch released a game and an expansion in 2014, they also got a new mo cap studio in 2015, they don't make little games so it'll take time. Last I read Media Molecule was just over 50 employees so it's hardly breaking the bank, still not sure what's up with dreams but they likely aren't being rushed. Also it was announced at E3 2015 not the PS4 reveal in 2013, they had some kind of demonstration at the reveal but that wasn't dreams.

Wrong thread?
 
Sucker Punch released a game and an expansion in 2014, they also got a new mo cap studio in 2015, they don't make little games so it'll take time. Last I read Media Molecule was just over 50 employees so it's hardly breaking the bank, still not sure what's up with dreams but they likely aren't being rushed. Also it was announced at E3 2015 not the PS4 reveal in 2013, they had some kind of demonstration at the reveal but that wasn't dreams.

Infamous is hardly a "big" game. Its Btier. But i agree they are clearly in development hell.

The expansion is no excuse. Every game that comes out these days is expected to have dlc of some kind.

50 employees over 7 (8?) Years is the same as 100 employees over 3 and a half to 4 years..the difference being is you get twice as many games with the latter.

Why are we waiting the best part of a decade for a single game?

The project they announced at the PS reveal was called "our next game" by their Studio Head...but who cares when it was revealed? The point is its been in development since LBP 2 was released in early 2011.

I'd revise my previous comments to include Sony Bend as well. These studios are following Liverpool and Zippers footsteps in taking too long to get s*** done.
 
Infamous is hardly a "big" game. Its Btier. But i agree they are clearly in development hell.

The expansion is no excuse. Every game that comes out these days is expected to have dlc of some kind.

50 employees over 7 (8?) Years is the same as 100 employees over 3 and a half to 4 years..the difference being is you twice as many games with the latter.

The project they announced at the PS reveal was called "our next game" by their Studio Head...but who cares when it was revealed? The point is its been in development since LBP 2 was released in early 2011.

I'd revise my previous comments to include Sony Bend as well. These studios are following Liverpool and Zippers footsteps in taking too long to get s*** done.

Bend has already shown what they are working on, you don't know when actual development of dreams started and infamous is an open world series that's story driven and requires a lot of work. The expansion does count btw, that was a new story that had to be written, captured etc. BTW just because a game is finished doesn't mean a new one is immediately in full production, pre production can take a lot of time especially with new IP's, series reboots or developing new tech for the studio to use.

SP isn't working on another infamous, Dreams is different than what was shown at the console announcement so no it's not the same game, clearly they changed course and they are a small studio. I really don't know what you are getting at with this other then trying to find something to complain about when there is no problem.

Sony clearly is fine with these studios doing their thing, GOW isn't coming until early 2018, SSM's last AAA console release was done on the PS3, there was another game that was in full production but cancelled. They aren't MS, they don't require a new game from their devs every 2-3 years and that's why I would argue they do single player games much better than MS, they give the devs time to work on the project and to marry art and tech properly, MS seems to run things more like a typical corporation.

Detroit is another game that's taking time but they've shown it's going to be fairly substantial story wise and has very strong production values. You don't judge a studio by how often they put out games you judge them by the quality of the titles. If you require a new game every two years you hamper what your dev teams can do creatively.
 
Bend has already shown what they are working on

So? Their last game was golden abyss in January 2012 and Sony can't commit to a 2018 date for days gone. 7 years for an openworld Zombie game?

How many Dead Risings have released in that time?

you don't know when actual development of dreams started

They said their main team had been working on something else since before LBP2 shipped when Tearaway was announced for Vita

and infamous is an open world series that's story driven and requires a lot of work.

Forza Horizons had 2 games and 4 expansions since then, i won;t even bother to count the number of watchdogs, assassins creeds and far crys.

The expansion does count btw, that was a new story that had to be written, captured etc.

Yes, DLC has to be made to be made. I noticed Injustice 2 released just 2 years after Mortal Kombat X and we've had several assassins creeds and watch_dogs and far crys and motorsports and horizons and fifas and maddens and new ip that all have DLC as an expectation. The Witcher 3.

Why do you think Second Sons DLC was more special than other DLC in open world games?

BTW just because a game is finished doesn't mean a new one is immediately in full production, pre production can take a lot of time especially with new IP's, series reboots or developing new tech for the studio to use.

Well if your next game isn't in some kind of production before you finish your current one, that's development hell.

SP isn't working on another infamous,

That was obvious once Sony gutted the studio because SS underperformed.

Dreams is different than what was shown at the console announcement so no it's not the same game, clearly they changed course and they are a small studio.

Changed course? Is it no longer a worldbuilder game? Because if it is that means they haven't changed course.

Of course if they did change course, that's another example of development hell.

I really don't know what you are getting at with this other then trying to find something to complain about when there is no problem.

5-7 year dev times for single titles is not "no problem". It's less games with longer waits....unless you want half the games Sony makes to have developments akin to The Last Guardian.

It's a problem when development hell kills studios ...and half of Sonys first party are in development hell.

Sony clearly is fine with these studios doing their thing, GOW isn't coming until early 2018, SSM's last AAA console release was done on the PS3, there was another game that was in full production but cancelled.

Ok so why is a simple sequel taking 5 years?

They aren't MS, they don't require a new game from their devs every 2-3 years and that's why I would argue they do single player games much better than MS, they give the devs time to work on the project and to marry art and tech properly, MS seems to run things more like a typical corporation.

No point marrying art and tech when development has taken so long the tech has been superceded. Twice.

Detroit is another game that's taking time but they've shown it's going to be fairly substantial story wise and has very strong production values.

Looks exactly the same as Heavy Rain and Beyond to me. How is Detroit more substantial then those? Have they tripled the length of the campaign. Can I expect 35 hours in the first playthrough?

You don't judge a studio by how often they put out games you judge them by the quality of the titles. If you require a new game every two years you hamper what your dev teams can do creatively.

Well we're not exactly seeing Detroit being more creative in its gameplay so why has it taken 5 years? Better graphics? Because a lot of games have better graphics than they did in 2013.
 
Last edited:
Bend has already shown what they are working on, you don't know when actual development of dreams started and infamous is an open world series that's story driven and requires a lot of work. The expansion does count btw, that was a new story that had to be written, captured etc. BTW just because a game is finished doesn't mean a new one is immediately in full production, pre production can take a lot of time especially with new IP's, series reboots or developing new tech for the studio to use.

SP isn't working on another infamous, Dreams is different than what was shown at the console announcement so no it's not the same game, clearly they changed course and they are a small studio. I really don't know what you are getting at with this other then trying to find something to complain about when there is no problem.

Sony clearly is fine with these studios doing their thing, GOW isn't coming until early 2018, SSM's last AAA console release was done on the PS3, there was another game that was in full production but cancelled. They aren't MS, they don't require a new game from their devs every 2-3 years and that's why I would argue they do single player games much better than MS, they give the devs time to work on the project and to marry art and tech properly, MS seems to run things more like a typical corporation.

Detroit is another game that's taking time but they've shown it's going to be fairly substantial story wise and has very strong production values. You don't judge a studio by how often they put out games you judge them by the quality of the titles. If you require a new game every two years you hamper what your dev teams can do creatively.

JinCA, I agree with what you're saying, but ... who are you arguing with? I read back over the last page of the thread and don't see anyone talking about this issue. Seems like you're posting this in the wrong thread.

I can move it, if you tell me where it belongs.
 
JinCA, I agree with what you're saying, but ... who are you arguing with? I read back over the last page of the thread and don't see anyone talking about this issue. Seems like you're posting this in the wrong thread.

I can move it, if you tell me where it belongs.

You must have Sasquatch Montana on ignore :)
 
So? Their last game was golden abyss in January 2012 and Sony can't commit to a 2018 date for days gone. 7 years for an openworld Zombie game?

How many Dead Risings have released in that time?



They said their main team had been working on something else since before LBP2 shipped when Tearaway was announced for Vita



Forza Horizons had 2 games and 4 expansions since then, i won;t even bother to count the number of watchdogs, assassins creeds and far crys.



Yes, DLC has to be made to be made. I noticed Injustice 2 released just 2 years after Mortal Kombat X and we've had several assassins creeds and watch_dogs and far crys and motorsports and horizons and fifas and maddens and new ip that all have DLC as an expectation. The Witcher 3.

Why do you think Second Sons DLC was more special than other DLC in open world games?



Well if your next game isn't in some kind of production before you finish your current one, that's development hell.



That was obvious once Sony gutted the studio because SS underperformed.



Changed course? Is it no longer a worldbuilder game? Because if it is that means they haven't changed course.

Of course if they did change course, that's another example of development hell.



5-7 year dev times for single titles is not "no problem". It's less games with longer waits....unless you want half the games Sony makes to have developments akin to The Last Guardian.

It's a problem when development hell kills studios ...and half of Sonys first party are in development hell.



Ok so why is a simple sequel taking 5 years?



No point marrying art and tech when development has taken so long the tech has been superceded. Twice.



Looks exactly the same as Heavy Rain and Beyond to me. How is Detroit more substantial then those? Have they tripled the length of the campaign. Can I expect 35 hours in the first playthrough?



Well we're not exactly seeing Detroit being more creative in its gameplay so why has it taken 5 years? Better graphics? Because a lot of games have better graphics than they did in 2013.

Sucker Punch wasn't gutted, the game they were working on was done so staff was made redundant, that happens at almost every studio. You don't need to keep a full staff during pre-production, they had layoffs in August and started hiring again in October. This can't be news to you.

Again Dreams was OFFICIALLY ANNOUNCED at E3 2015, a small studio working on two projects clearly means one probably only has a few people on it doing concepts etc. Again this can't be news to you.

What Detroit looks like to you doesn't really mean a thing, it takes time to make games, especially when you are truly trying to take advantage of the hardware. Story driven games are also altered by edits to the story etc.

You can't hold every studio to the same standard, some studios have huge teams and others have small teams. GG has released a KZ game and a new open world IP but they are also a MUCH bigger studio (nearly 300 plus in house and hundreds more for HZD that were outsourced) than either Bend (just over 100) or MM (50). Your claim of dev hell is quite funny really, you want them to be in trouble so you say they are, clearly they all have announced projects and are being given the time they need to make these projects what they want them to be. There have been NO reports of trouble at any of these studios so you are trying to find a problem where there is none or are just bored.
 
Last edited:
Sucker Punch wasn't gutted, the game they were working on was done so staff was made redundant, that happens at almost every studio. You don't need to keep a full staff during pre-production, they had layoffs in August and started hiring again in October. This can't be news to you.

Again Dreams was OFFICIALLY ANNOUNCED at E3 2015, a small studio working on two projects clearly means one probably only has a few people on it doing concepts etc. Again this can't be news to you.

What Detroit looks like to you doesn't really mean a thing, it takes time to make games, especially when you are truly trying to take advantage of the hardware. Story driven games are also altered by edits to the story etc.

You can't hold every studio to the same standard, some studios have huge teams and others have small teams. GG has released a KZ game and a new open world IP but they are also a MUCH bigger studio (nearly 300 plus in house and hundreds more for HZD that were outsourced) than either Bend (just over 100) or MM (50). Your claim of dev hell is quite funny really, you want them to be in trouble so you say they are, clearly they all have announced projects and are being given the time they need to make these projects what they want them to be. There have been NO reports of trouble at any of these studios so you are trying to find a problem where there is none or are just bored.

I strongly suspect "Dreams" is being reworked for VR, and that's why we haven't seen it for a while.
 
I strongly suspect "Dreams" is being reworked for VR, and that's why we haven't seen it for a while.

Could be, MM did say the game has grown bigger than they originally anticipated and that they are taking the time to do it the right way.
 
Sucker Punch wasn't gutted, the game they were working on was done so staff was made redundant, that happens at almost every studio. You don't need to keep a full staff during pre-production, they had layoffs in August and started hiring again in October. This can't be news to you.

They were gutted. 40% layoffs and they fired the team behind sly cooper (the senior honchos who had been their at inception) ...that didn't happen at Naughty Dog or Geurilla games, but it did happen at Evolution, Sony Liverpool and Cambridge...and those studios were closed.

Being gutted is a much better reason to explain no games for 6 years then ..."well games take time" yeah they do, but not a generation.

Again Dreams was OFFICIALLY ANNOUNCED at E3 2015, a small studio working on two projects clearly means one probably only has a few people on it doing concepts etc. Again this can't be news to you.

Are you saying Media Molecule spent 4.5 years doing nothing (development hell) , then announced Dreams ...then spent another 4 years making it.




For a game that changed so radically as you claim, can you explain why it looks the same as of last month as it did 4 and a half years ago?

What Detroit looks like to you doesn't really mean a thing, it takes time to make games, especially when you are truly trying to take advantage of the hardware..

Presumably anything not 4K in a years time would be considered dated no? You're the one who said Detroit had a substantial campaign. Im just asking if it's more substantial then their previous 2 games that look like they play in the same fashion.

Story driven games are also altered by edits to the story etc.

So you believe DLC and story edits adds 1-2 years of development time?

You can't hold every studio to the same standard, some studios have huge teams and others have small teams. GG has released a KZ game and a new open world IP but they are also a MUCH bigger studio (nearly 300 plus in house and hundreds more for HZD that were outsourced) than either Bend (just over 100) or MM (50).

I know of Studios at 100 people who are halfway through their 3rd open world game this gen.

Besides im not comparing it to other devs, i'm comparing it to themselves.

By next March QD and MM will have released zero games on PS4.
Same point on PS3 Heavy Rain was a year old and LBP 1 and 2 were out. How comes a 30-40 person studio made 2 games in 4 years but none in 6?

Your claim of dev hell is quite funny really, you want them to be in trouble so you say they are, clearly they all have announced projects and are being given the time they need to make these projects what they want them to be. There have been NO reports of trouble at any of these studios so you are trying to find a problem where there is none or are just bored.

There were no reports of any trouble at any of the studios Sony has closed....the only prior indication of trouble was very long development times.
 
Last edited:
They were gutted. 40% layoffs and they fired the team behind sly cooper (the senior honchos who had been their at inception) ...that didn't happen at Naughty Dog or Geurilla games, but it did happen at Evolution, Sony Liverpool and Cambridge...and those studios were closed.



Are you saying Media Molecule spent 4.5 years doing nothing (development hell) , then announced Dreams ...then spent another 4 years making it.




For a game that changed so radically as you claim, can you explain why it looks the same as of last month as it did 4 and a half years ago?



Presumably anything not 4K in a years time would be considered dated no?



So you believe DLC and story edits adds 1-2 years of development time?



I know of Studios at 100 people who are halfway through their 3rd open world game this gen.

Besides im not comparing it to other devs, i'm comparing it to themselves.

By next March QD and MM will have released no games on PS4.
Same point on PS3 Heavy Rain was a year old and LBP 1 and 2 were out.



There were no reports of any trouble at any of the studios Sony has closed....the only prior indication of trouble was very long development times.


Maybe you missed it but the first video you put up is titled "tech demo" it wasn't a game announcement lol.

Games not in 4K won't be dated, you are going to be heartbroken when you finally come to the realization that most X1X 3rd party AAA games won't be native 4K either.

Who are these studios with 100 people who are on their 3rd open world game of this generation? Are you talking about racing games? if so that's an idiotic comparison.

Again you don't seem to understand that there is a creative process that goes along with designing games. Clearly Sony giving SP a new mo cap studio in 2015 after they started hiring again shows they aren't in any trouble, the head of Sony World Wide Studios has said he's played the game they are working on and it's a lot of fun, it's a new IP not another infamous game.

There were reports of issues going on at some of those devs by the way, MS and Sony have both closed or consolidated studios this gen. MS has actually had several announced games cancelled and CD3 is looking pretty poor and was announced years ago, talk about development hell.