The 2018/2019 NBA Season Thread...

The Sunset Limited said:
MJ wasn't good enough to take his team to the Finals.

LeBron might lose in the Finals, but he has the ability to take scrub teammates there. MJ didn't.

MJ was 1 - 9 before Scottie Pippen showed up. Go look at LeBron's playoff record before he played with a talent like Pippen.

Even more impressive is that LeBron did it coming out of high school. Jordan needed 3 years of seasoning in college.

It's not even a debate really.
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Jordan lost one series to the Bucks his rookie season, then got swept by the Celtics twice. You know, Larry Bird, Kevin McHale, Robert Parrish, Dennis Johnson, those guys? One of those Celts teams won the NBA title and is one of the all-time great teams, and the other was derailed by injuries and still pushed the gott-damned Lakers to six. He then got knocked out of the playoffs three straight years by the Bad Boys of Detroit, who lost the Finals in 7 the first year and won the title the other two. Laimbeer, Thomas, Dumars, Salley, Mahorn, Rodman... those guys were pretty damn good too - not an all-time team like that Celtics squad or on par with the Showtime Lakers overall, but a damn fine team. He then won three straight, retired, came back and after playing less than half a season. lost to Shaq et al in a season, and then won three in a row.

LBJ built a gott-damned super team. He was in his prime. He lost the finals to Dirk freaking Nowitzki, and it wasn't like he was dragging along Bosh and Wade - Bosh hit one of the game winners and Wade outplayed LBJ in the series. All I know is I remember the Pacers team that pushed the Bulls to 7 when Jordan was back and the one that pushed LBJ's Heat to 7 last season, and MJ would have pasted those Pacers in five max. LBJ has benefitted from an Eastern Conference that is too soft to be used as toilet paper, and of course he made the Finals every f***ing year because MJ, Bird, Magic, Dr. J, Wilt or Russell in their prime with LeBron's team would have done the same thing. Not a damn one of them would have lost to Dirk in the Finals, though.
 
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The Sunset Limited said:
He wasn't asked to.
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Right, but you implied your video backed up your opinion with data. It’s actually just Daryl Morey’s opinion stemming from the eye test and unknown metrics.

Also, aside from my previous points Jordan still has a higher PER (#1 all-time) if you consider that a valid metric, despite his later years with the Wizards.
 
lowdru2k said:
Im still waiting. All you do is dodge what goes against your argument and have yet to give us anything that says that LBJ is the GOAT.
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Consider this...

Jordan currently holds the record for most points scored in a playoff run. He scored 759 points in 22 games back in the 1992 playoffs.

Last year, LeBron James scored 748 points in the same number of games (22) during his playoff run.

Only...James took 71 fewer shots than Jordan. Racked up 71 more assists than Jordan. Grabbed 63 more rebounds than Jordan and had a higher true shooting as well as effective field goal percentage than Jordan.

And he played 3 of those 22 games with a broken hand.

He's measurably better than Jordan.
 
The Sunset Limited said:
Consider this...

Jordan currently holds the record for most points scored in a playoff run. He scored 759 points in 22 games back in the 1992 playoffs.

Last year, LeBron James scored 748 points in the same number of games (22) during his playoff run.

Only...James took 71 fewer shots than Jordan. Racked up 71 more assists than Jordan. Grabbed 63 more rebounds than Jordan and had a higher true shooting as well as effective field goal percentage than Jordan.

And he played 3 of those 22 games with a broken hand.

He's measurably better than Jordan.
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Nope. Your still failing to realize LBJ’s years in Miami. He had two HOF’ers and lost. MJ would have never lost with that team. Just stop.
 
lowdru2k said:
Nope. Your still failing to realize LBJ’s years in Miami. He had two HOF’ers and lost. MJ would have never lost with that team. Just stop.
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Um...that team went 37 - 45 the year LeBron left. The Bulls went 55 - 27 when Jordan left.

Keep ignoring how bad LeBron's teams have been and how good Jordans teams were.
 
The Sunset Limited said:
Consider this...

Jordan currently holds the record for most points scored in a playoff run. He scored 759 points in 22 games back in the 1992 playoffs.

Last year, LeBron James scored 748 points in the same number of games (22) during his playoff run.

Only...James took 71 fewer shots than Jordan. Racked up 71 more assists than Jordan. Grabbed 63 more rebounds than Jordan and had a higher true shooting as well as effective field goal percentage than Jordan.

And he played 3 of those 22 games with a broken hand.

He's measurably better than Jordan.
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Did they win the title?
 
The Sunset Limited said:
Um...that team went 37 - 45 the year LeBron left. The Bulls went 55 - 27 when Jordan left.

Keep ignoring how bad LeBron's teams have been and how good Jordans teams were.
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Except that Heat team also lost Bosh for much of the season and Lebron went to another team in the East which made the Heat opposition stronger. If Jordan had left the Bulls to go to another Eastern conference team rather than retiring the Bulls would have likely dropped off even further. You're also ignoring the fact that the year after that in '94-95 the Bulls really dropped off, until they went 13-4 in their final 17 games when Jordan came back to get them to the playoffs.

Granted they lost to Penny and Shaq in the Eastern conference semifinals, but they could have missed the playoffs entirely if they had remained on the same pace prior to Jordan's return.
 
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Pureshooter said:
Except that Heat team also lost Bosh for much of the season and Lebron went to another team in the East which made the Heat opposition stronger. If Jordan had left the Bulls to go to another Eastern conference team rather than retiring the Bulls would have likely dropped off even further. You're also ignoring the fact that the year after that in '94-95 the Bulls really dropped off, until they went 13-4 in their final 17 games when Jordan came back to get them to the playoffs.

Granted they lost to Penny and Shaq in the Eastern conference semifinals, but they could have missed the playoffs entirely if they had remained on the same pace prior to Jordan's return.
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Chris Bosh played in 44 games during that season. The Heat went 19-25 in those 44 games. That team was not good.

Miami played Cleveland 4 times the following year and split the season series 2-2. So if LeBron quit playing basketball, it wouldn't have made much of an impact on Miami's post LeBron record.

At a certain point, Jordan Stan's have to admit that LeBron played on hard difficulty setting while Jordan played on easy.
 
lowdru2k said:
He needed Wade/Bosh and then Kyrie/Love to win some titles while losing others. He couldn’t win before those guys or after.
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Jesus, how did I completely forget that Love and Irving were on the team? Oh, because someone is trying to create a narrative where Lebron won his titles with 11 Keith Kloss's.
 
Why are we comparing Jordanless title teams to Lebronless non title teams?

Plainview said:
Jesus, how did I completely forget that Love and Irving were on the team? Oh, because someone is trying to create a narrative where Lebron won his titles with 11 Keith Kloss's.
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Kryie only averaged 27 in their championship. What a bum.
 
Plainview said:
Jesus, how did I completely forget that Love and Irving were on the team? Oh, because someone is trying to create a narrative where Lebron won his titles with 11 Keith Kloss's.
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I would love to see that simulation on Youtube.
The Sunset Limited said:
Chris Bosh played in 44 games during that season. The Heat went 19-25 in those 44 games. That team was not good.

Miami played Cleveland 4 times the following year and split the season series 2-2. So if LeBron quit playing basketball, it wouldn't have made much of an impact on Miami's post LeBron record.

At a certain point, Jordan Stan's have to admit that LeBron played on hard difficulty setting while Jordan played on easy.
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It's not about the head-to-head, it's about moving a team ahead of you in the playoff race which either would move you out of the playoffs or make your seeding worse.
 
Let's not forget Ray Allen saved the Miami Cheat multiple times.

Michael Jordan played with two hall of famers his entire career, Pippen and Rodman.

Lebron played with Ray Allen, Shaq, Dwayne Wade, three first ballots, and possible HOF's Bosh, Love, Irving.


 
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Pureshooter said:
I would love to see that simulation on Youtube.

It's not about the head-to-head, it's about moving a team ahead of you in the playoff race which either would move you out of the playoffs or make your seeding worse.
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I no longer understand what you're trying to say.

The Cavs won a lot of games during his first year with the Kyrie/Love Cavs. If anything, the Heat (who went .500 against LeBron that year) benefitted from the Cavs beating up on the rest of the East.

But maybe I'm misunderstanding you?
 
Plainview said:
Let's not forget Ray Allen saved the Miami Cheat multiple times.

Michael Jordan played with two hall of famers his entire career, Pippen and Rodman.

Lebron played with Ray Allen, Shaq, Dwayne Wade, three first ballots, and possible HOF's Bosh, Love, Irving.


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And yet, all those teams were terrible when LeBron left.
 
Plainview said:
Let's not forget Ray Allen saved the Miami Cheat multiple times.

Michael Jordan played with two hall of famers his entire career, Pippen and Rodman.

Lebron played with Ray Allen, Shaq, Dwayne Wade, three first ballots, and possible HOF's Bosh, Love, Irving.


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And the first 3 titles with only 1. Lebron struggles to win when he has 3.

Guess that ends the discussion.
 
The Sunset Limited said:
At a certain point, Jordan Stan's have to admit that LeBron played on hard difficulty setting while Jordan played on easy.
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In all of the seasons LeBron made the Finals, what's the best team in the East that they've beaten? Could you then compare them to Bird's Celtics, the Isaiah/Laimbeer/etc. Pistons, or hell, even Reggie Miller's Pacers?
 
Jordan Stan's imploding now...
lowdru2k said:
I guess someone forgot to tell Wade and company when they won the title pre-LBJ they were actually a bad team before LeBron got there. How dare they win a Championship.
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That was 6 years earlier when Wade was in his prime, could play defense, and had a vastly different roster around him.

Players don't win championships. Teams do.
 
The Sunset Limited said:
I no longer understand what you're trying to say.

The Cavs won a lot of games during his first year with the Kyrie/Love Cavs. If anything, the Heat (who went .500 against LeBron that year) benefitted from the Cavs beating up on the rest of the East.

But maybe I'm misunderstanding you?
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I'm just saying that the Heat had the Cavs move from a non-playoff team to the leader of the division, which basically slid everyone down a notch and made it more difficult to make the playoffs if you were a fringe team. If Lebron had retired the Cavs may have still been a non-playoff team for years.
 
Yeah sure the Heat might have had 4 Hall of Famers but the Bulls had Jud Buechler. No way the Bulls could lose.
 
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