The End of the World: A Political Thread. A New Hope coming soon!

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horns said:
She was the least popular candidate ever? By that logic I should assume the measurement of favorability is popularity and that wins elections? Why didn't popularity high favorability help Romney, McCain, Kerry or McCain win? Or Sanders? Clinton had extremely high favorability heading into the election more on that later. These are very partisan times and I seriously doubt any candidate and leader from either party is going to have very high favorability. Another measure of popularity is to look at the vote counts aka popular vote. In which case, Clinton was just a tiny bit behind Gore and Kerry, but otherwise bested every Democrat since Carter with the exception of Obama and Bill Clinton's reelection.

I don't blame 3rd party voters. I do blame other things. I will say that Clinton was far from a perfect candidate. It was never going to be an "easy" win despite what many thought. The insane challenges (7 Benghazi investigations over 4 years, bulls*** email investigation, FBI reopening an investigation ten days before the election, the FBI not disclosing Trump was facing even worse, Wikileaks, blame for everything Bill did, unfair criticism by the media, number of false accusations, being a woman, and the attitude of many) are unlike any candidate has every faced. I still hear people lie about her regularly and it surprises me more don't correct them. I do hope the next candidate doesn't face the same challenges.
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The email thing was her own doing so was the response to Benghazi, I don't mean the people being killed there but her trying to blame it on a video vs being real. She is always trying to cover something up, some things are fabricated yes but she suffered from a ton of self inflicted wounds and having the DNC stack the deck in her favor didn't help. If she were her husband she may have been able to get away with it, not because he's a man but because he has charisma and is able to connect with a lot of people and she lacks that. She also ran a poor campaign and ignored warnings from states that she lost, she is to blame for her losing as much as anyone. We all know she won the popular vote but we also know that's not how you win the election, she and her campaign were either too arrogant or incompetent (maybe both) to see what was going on. When you know your opponents will grab on to anything you do and keep it alive until the end of time you should be more careful about the choices you make.
 
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yankeessuck said:
I will blame all the people you just mentioned. And Bernie.
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Bernie? why because he dared to run against her instead of just giving her a clear path to the nomination? He would have beaten Trump and he likely would have beaten her had the DNC not stacked the deck and the media actually paid any attention at all to him until it was too late.
 
JinCA said:
Bernie? why because he dared to run against her instead of just giving her a clear path to the nomination? He would have beaten Trump and he likely would have beaten her had the DNC not stacked the deck and the media actually paid any attention at all to him until it was too late.
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I blame Bernie for running a terrible campaign. Just like I blame Hillary.

I blame Bernie for still attacking her after he no longer had a path to win.

He probably would have beaten Trump if he won but didn't and thats his fault. You have to earn those votes right?
 
yankeessuck said:
I blame Bernie for running a terrible campaign. Just like I blame Hillary.

I blame Bernie for still attacking her after he no longer had a path to win.

He probably would have beaten Trump if he won but didn't and thats his fault. You have to earn those votes right?
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Yep but you also need to make sure that the party who's nomination you are seeking hasn't stacked the deck against you, DWS was doing everything she could to make sure Hillary was the nominee. Bernie got no media coverage until Trump basically locked up the Republican nomination and it's hard for someone to get their message out there if you can't get the media to pay attention to you. Hillary already had a name and the press just treated her nomination like it was a forgone conclusion, they only paid attention to him after they saw that his message was resonating. Him leaving a week or two earlier wouldn't have helped HRC in any real way, she was an AWFUL candidate and that can't be blamed on anyone but her.
 
JinCA said:
Yep but you also need to make sure that the party who's nomination you are seeking hasn't stacked the deck against you, DWS was doing everything she could to make sure Hillary was the nominee. Bernie got no media coverage until Trump basically locked up the Republican nomination and it's hard for someone to get their message out there if you can't get the media to pay attention to you. Hillary already had a name and the press just treated her nomination like it was a forgone conclusion, they only paid attention to him after they saw that his message was resonating. Him leaving a week or two earlier wouldn't have helped HRC in any real way, she was an AWFUL candidate and that can't be blamed on anyone but her.
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The media coverage was 100% Trump all the time. That was actually a huge problem. CNN actually barely showed Hillary down the stretch either. Everything was Trump, Trump Trump. They had no idea how to deal with Trump, so they did what always worked in the past - shined a light on him and everything he said. Obviously that didn't work.

Bernie lost though, plain and simple. I like the guy and I follow him on twitter, but as President? No. He's got a lot of high level ideas, but no idea how to implement them. Hillary shredded him in the debates. I'm no Hillary fan but it wasn't even close.

As I said, I like Bernie, but as a spokesperson. He's the idealist. Some of the stuff he does to bring attention to labor disputes is amazing (Disney, etc). He was way out of his league in the Presidential run though.
 
Kerosene31 said:
The media coverage was 100% Trump all the time. That was actually a huge problem. CNN actually barely showed Hillary down the stretch either. Everything was Trump, Trump Trump. They had no idea how to deal with Trump, so they did what always worked in the past - shined a light on him and everything he said. Obviously that didn't work.

Bernie lost though, plain and simple. I like the guy and I follow him on twitter, but as President? No. He's got a lot of high level ideas, but no idea how to implement them. Hillary shredded him in the debates. I'm no Hillary fan but it wasn't even close.

As I said, I like Bernie, but as a spokesperson. He's the idealist. Some of the stuff he does to bring attention to labor disputes is amazing (Disney, etc). He was way out of his league in the Presidential run though.
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Hillary didn't shred him but yeah he needs to get better at saying how he's going to do the things he says he wants to do, he is good at pointing out what should be done and what the problems are but he needs to get better at saying how he'll implement his fixes. Hillary doesn't really talk specifics either she's just basically saying the same things that all politicians do, sadly the press didn't push her very hard either.
 
Here is that article i mentioned earlier.

https://readsludge.com/2018/11/15/the-verdict-is-in-rejecting-corporate-cash-wins-elections/


"
Rejecting corporate PAC donations was a successful strategy—one that helped Rose, a Democrat, knock off a Staten Island Republican incumbent who won that seat by 25 percentage points two years ago—that dozens of congressional candidates employed this year. More than 40 members of the next Congress have pledged to reject corporate PAC money, according to the campaign finance reform PAC End Citizens United.Most of these election winners will be new to Washington: 32 new Democratic House members said no to corporate cash—including 23 who flipped Republican seats—making up over half of the 58 candidates who will become freshmen representatives in January.
"

People want corruption out of politics. Hopefully this trend continues.
 
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JinCA said:
Yep but you also need to make sure that the party who's nomination you are seeking hasn't stacked the deck against you, DWS was doing everything she could to make sure Hillary was the nominee. Bernie got no media coverage until Trump basically locked up the Republican nomination and it's hard for someone to get their message out there if you can't get the media to pay attention to you. Hillary already had a name and the press just treated her nomination like it was a forgone conclusion, they only paid attention to him after they saw that his message was resonating. Him leaving a week or two earlier wouldn't have helped HRC in any real way, she was an AWFUL candidate and that can't be blamed on anyone but her.
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It was over long before the last week or two

They both ran bad campaigns. You are just only willing to admit that about people you don't like. How about you speak about something other than wall street for 5 seconds? He got blown out in the black vote. A group you kind of need if you are Democrat. And yeah she did shred him in the debates.
 
yankeessuck said:
It was over long before the last week or two

They both ran bad campaigns. You are just only willing to admit that about people you don't like. How about you speak about something other than wall street for 5 seconds? He got blown out in the black vote. A group you kind of need if you are Democrat. And yeah she did shred him in the debates.
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Had he been given more coverage and been able to spread his message earlier he probably would have made inroads with minority communities, had they known he actually was arrested back in the day for protesting I think they'd have appreciated that a lot more than anything Hillary did which was basically riding her husbands popularity with that community. Bernie has flaws, he isn't specific enough and he's not a master communicator by any stretch but at least if he had gotten in his starting position in negotiations with the other side wouldn't be that of a 90's republican the way Hillary would have been.
 
Hillary is a republican now? :laugh:

And that is why GOP wins. They will declare whoever the candidate is to be super liberal to scare off independents while those on the left declare whoever wins to not be liberal enough and stay home. Or vote for Jill Stein for some reason.
 
Videodrome said:
I voted for Jill Stein for some reason.
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LOS ANGELES (AP) — The Los Angeles district attorney declined to prosecute attorney Michael Avenatti on felony domestic abuse charges on Wednesday and referred allegations that he roughed up his girlfriend to the city attorney for a possible misdemeanor case.

Avenatti, 47, was arrested on suspicion of felony domestic violence last week after his girlfriend told police he abused her at his Los Angeles apartment following an argument.

A restraining order against Avenatti was issued after actress Mareli Miniutti said he dragged her by the arm across a bedroom floor.
 
yankeessuck said:
Hillary is a republican now? :laugh:

And that is why GOP wins. They will declare whoever the candidate is to be super liberal to scare off independents while those on the left declare whoever wins to not be liberal enough and stay home. Or vote for Jill Stein for some reason.
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She is more 90's republican than she is 2010's liberal, take away her stance on guns and abortion and she'd fit right in with the 90's GOP. She's also a political coward who never takes a stand on anything that takes guts, she knows pro choice and gun regulation are popular in the party but anything even slightly controversial she plays safe and only changes her mind once things start polling over 60% She'd still be MUCH better than the clown we have now but she would have just been more of the same, she's also far too hawkish for my liking.
 
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JinCA said:
She is more 90's republican than she is 2010's liberal, take away her stance on guns and abortion and she'd fit right in with the 90's GOP. She's also a political coward who never takes a stand on anything that takes guts, she knows pro choice and gun regulation are popular in the party but anything even slightly controversial she plays safe and only changes her mind once things start polling over 60% She'd still be MUCH better than the clown we have now but she would have just been more of the same, she's also far too hawkish for my liking.
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She is more liberal than Obama
 
I wasn't 100% sure where Hillary was politically to be honest. It didn't really matter of course considering what she was running against, but that was a big problem. She ran against Trump. That was her platform. In a world where common sense reigns, that should be enough, but it isn't.

The next Democrats need to NOT run against Trump. Not with this "we go high" stuff... ignore him. Trump is a black hole of media attention. Don't acknowledge him at all. Run against the Republican tax policy. Don't let them drag you down in the issues that you don't do well in. Outside of a debate, don't even address Trump.
 
Kerosene31 said:
I wasn't 100% sure where Hillary was politically to be honest. It didn't really matter of course considering what she was running against, but that was a big problem. She ran against Trump. That was her platform. In a world where common sense reigns, that should be enough, but it isn't.

The next Democrats need to NOT run against Trump. Not with this "we go high" stuff... ignore him. Trump is a black hole of media attention. Don't acknowledge him at all. Run against the Republican tax policy. Don't let them drag you down in the issues that you don't do well in. Outside of a debate, don't even address Trump.
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Yep best to ignore him. If I were running against him I would avoid saying his name.
 
It is great how crazy she makes Republicans. They are so transparent in their attacks on her. A younger woman winning a House seat and speaking her mind? You can see the smoke coming out of the ears of the alt right.

What's really funny is she is from a deep, deep blue district in NY anyway. The Republicans shouldn't really care about her.

What's great is how she's a social media lightning rod. They are always trying to attack her and she just turns it back on them.
 
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And the more attention they give her the more attention she will get from people who don't know who she is and they might like her. You would think republicans would know better because that's how 45 got so much free press in 2016 and it helped him win the election.

So please do keep at it dumb nuts you will probably end up doing more for social democracy then moderate democrats.
 
Kerosene31 said:
It is great how crazy she makes Republicans. They are so transparent in their attacks on her. A younger woman winning a House seat and speaking her mind? You can see the smoke coming out of the ears of the alt right.

What's really funny is she is from a deep, deep blue district in NY anyway. The Republicans shouldn't really care about her.

What's great is how she's a social media lightning rod. They are always trying to attack her and she just turns it back on them.
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It will pay off them eventually. She will be Hillary or Nancy Pelosi after 15 years of attacks.
 
Just pondering how all these immigrants are just trying to to get in here after most Americans including myself just over indulged on Thanksgiving food.

Not to say we should open the borders, but we could try to deal with this instead of sitting on a moral high horse demanding we push these people away or maybe imprison them.
 
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Videodrome said:
Just pondering how all these immigrants are just trying to to get in here after most Americans including myself just over indulged on Thanksgiving food.

Not to say we should open the borders, but we could try to deal with this instead of sitting on a moral high horse demanding we push these people away or maybe imprison them.
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The important thing to remember is that the alt right has done nothing to secure the border either. The whole thing is meant to distract people away from looking too closely at the GOP tax plan and the economy. Trump never wanted to fix the problem, just use it to manipulate people to vote for him.
It is just another Trump scam.
 
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