Tim Sweeney Needs Some Fresh Air

[The Wolf King]

http://www.pcgamer.com/tim-sweeney-...-progressively-worse-with-windows-10-patches/

"The risk here is that, if Microsoft convinces everybody to use UWP, then they phase out Win32 apps. If they can succeed in doing that then it’s a small leap to forcing all apps and games to be distributed through the Windows Store. Once we reach that point, the PC has become a closed platform. It won’t be that one day they flip a switch that will break your Steam library – what they’re trying to do is a series of sneaky manoeuvres. They make it more and more inconvenient to use the old apps, and, simultaneously, they try to become the only source for the new ones."


This is some real tin foil hat s*** hate on W10

 

[eVo7]

http://www.pcgamer.com/tim-sweeney-...-progressively-worse-with-windows-10-patches/

"The risk here is that, if Microsoft convinces everybody to use UWP, then they phase out Win32 apps. If they can succeed in doing that then it’s a small leap to forcing all apps and games to be distributed through the Windows Store. Once we reach that point, the PC has become a closed platform. It won’t be that one day they flip a switch that will break your Steam library – what they’re trying to do is a series of sneaky manoeuvres. They make it more and more inconvenient to use the old apps, and, simultaneously, they try to become the only source for the new ones."


This is some real tin foil hat s*** hate on W10

Nah, Tim Sweeney is right if you think about it......I could definitely see that s*** happening unfortunately.

 

[BDaddyK]

The Apple effect...

 

[hrudey]

The amount of money they'd lose and absolute s***storm that would arise on the corporate side of this (where legacy non-UWP applications are deployed internally, not even considering applications sold to end users) would be much greater than anything they'd hope to get by going to a mandatory store model. It's not happening in the next decade.

 

[TeKPhaN]

Nah, Tim Sweeney is right if you think about it......I could definitely see that s*** happening unfortunately.

Yup and its good a industry leader is pointing this out.

 

[Kassen]

http://www.pcgamer.com/tim-sweeney-...-progressively-worse-with-windows-10-patches/

"The risk here is that, if Microsoft convinces everybody to use UWP, then they phase out Win32 apps. If they can succeed in doing that then it’s a small leap to forcing all apps and games to be distributed through the Windows Store. Once we reach that point, the PC has become a closed platform. It won’t be that one day they flip a switch that will break your Steam library – what they’re trying to do is a series of sneaky manoeuvres. They make it more and more inconvenient to use the old apps, and, simultaneously, they try to become the only source for the new ones."


This is some real tin foil hat s*** hate on W10

It's the truth. Microsoft is real big on control and monetization of their platform. Microsoft has been trying to push Windows away from being an open platform for a long time now. Microsoft literally lost big lawsuits over Windows 8 upgrades and was forced to offer "downgrade rights" for business owners. Microsoft had also been forcefully installing Windows 10 onto tens if not hundreds of millions of computers even knowing people did not want to upgrade. Germany tried to ban the Xbox One because the Kinect camera being plugged in was a mandatory requirement for the console to function. Microsoft has no place in the Windows marketplace. Microsoft may have designed and released the operating system, but the consumers are the ones who have control over its use. And that is the way it should stay.

 

[The Wolf King]

MS would never get away with it.

 

[Kassen]

Only if we make sure they don't. Microsoft's vision for the Windows platform is not consumer-friendly.

 

[TeKPhaN]

 

[Kassen]

Yup. Microsoft is trying to lock down an open platform while shoving Windows 10 down everyone's throats.

 

[hrudey]

Yup. Microsoft is trying to lock down an open platform while shoving Windows 10 down everyone's throats.

They're not going to kill Win32 applications. It would be suicide for them to try, because for as big a world as some of these game developers think they are, the corporate world is a much bigger revenue stream for MS and killing off support for legacy and even newly-built Win32 apps just inside corporate networks would be tremendously damaging. I mean, don't let that kill off a good anti-MS rant, but just be aware that you're more likely to see a Boris Yeltsin sex tape with Justin Bieber than you are to see Win32 applications cut out before, say, 2024.

 

[Kassen]

They're not going to kill Win32 applications. It would be suicide for them to try, because for as big a world as some of these game developers think they are, the corporate world is a much bigger revenue stream for MS and killing off support for legacy and even newly-built Win32 apps just inside corporate networks would be tremendously damaging. I mean, don't let that kill off a good anti-MS rant, but just be aware that you're more likely to see a Boris Yeltsin sex tape with Justin Bieber than you are to see Win32 applications cut out before, say, 2024.

This idea that Microsoft won't release new software with damning controversial new features in the face of opinionated corporate consumers is inaccurate. Microsoft suffered a loss in a high dollar class action lawsuit over Windows 8 and its clear abandon in favor of a very forced tablet-friendly design. You can't even install a copy of Windows 8/8.1/10 now without full mention of the lawsuit being presented to you before installation.

 

[hrudey]

This idea that Microsoft won't release new software with damning controversial new features in the face of opinionated corporate consumers is inaccurate. Microsoft suffered a loss in a high dollar class action lawsuit over Windows 8 and its clear abandon in favor of a very forced tablet-friendly design. You can't even install a copy of Windows 8/8.1/10 now without full mention of the lawsuit being presented to you before installation.

Changing UI != rendering completely unusable literally decades of custom-written code. Hell, they had to extend support on XP until 2014, despite having released Vista, 7, 8 and 8.1 by then. They still make it possible to run 16-bit code on 32-bit versions of Windows 10. You can question what MS *wants* to do all you please, but if you have any notion that they're going to kill off their cash cow in some dick-waving contest about the windows store, you're simply not capable of disassociating how you feel about MS from strategic rational thought.

 

[Kassen]

Changing UI != rendering completely unusable literally decades of custom-written code. Hell, they had to extend support on XP until 2014, despite having released Vista, 7, 8 and 8.1 by then. They still make it possible to run 16-bit code on 32-bit versions of Windows 10. You can question what MS *wants* to do all you please, but if you have any notion that they're going to kill off their cash cow in some dick-waving contest about the windows store, you're simply not capable of disassociating how you feel about MS from strategic rational thought.

It's wasn't some simple UI change. The OS was completely rewritten from the ground up, breaking app compatibility across the board, on top of missing many features of previous OS's. Why don't you just look up the details of the lawsuit instead.

 

[hrudey]

It's wasn't some simple UI change. The OS was completely rewritten from the ground up, breaking app compatibility across the board, on top of missing many features of previous OS's. Why don't you just look up the details of the lawsuit instead.

I'm not finding anything like that with various searches. I'm seeing that they had a suit over Surface alleging MS overstated its sales performance and was committing fraud by not disclosing accurate information to shareholders. The only reference I can find to lawsuits in the W10 EULA is that it contains provisions which disallow class action lawsuits for people in the USA (I haven't seen any non-US EULA, so that may be standard for each country or specific to ours).

I'm not saying the lawsuit you're alleging isn't out there. I don't have access to any legal databases since I haven't been a student in ages and I'm not a legal professional or even studied law so I'd probably use them wrong anyhow. But think for just a minute how much backlash MS would get if they suddenly told Fortune 500 companies that the software that they've developed in house for production use would no longer be allowed to run on their Operating system, and that they'd have to go through the Windows Store instead (or port it to WPF and enable developer mode on each and every W10 machine).

The two word answer is: Not. Happening.

 

[Kassen]

I'm not finding anything like that with various searches.

Then you are doing something very wrong and running into all of the articles on Windows 10 lawsuits , Xbox One DRM and Kinect always-on controversies, or Microsoft's lawsuit claiming Android is a WP7 copycat. Microsoft is not a pacifist. They are always actively challenging their userbase and business partners with strongly alienating business policies on a regular schedule, always trying to figure out what they can get away with and what they cannot. The Microsoft you are describing is a myth.

 

[hrudey]

Microsoft suffered a loss in a high dollar class action lawsuit over Windows 8 and its clear abandon in favor of a very forced tablet-friendly design. You can't eve

It's wasn't some simple UI change. The OS was completely rewritten from the ground up, breaking app compatibility across the board, on top of missing many features of previous OS's. Why don't you just look up the details of the lawsuit instead.

Then you are doing something very wrong and running into all of the articles on Windows 10 lawsuits .

Fine. Give me a link to a summary of the high dollar class action suit referenced in your first two posts, so I can review the actual facts and not just your recitation of them.

 

[Registered User 1]

Fine. Give me a link to a summary of the high dollar class action suit referenced in your first two posts, so I can review the actual facts and not just your recitation of them.

I just searched for it too and found a bunch of unrelated stuff?

I love windows 10 so far, and I paid for the OEM.

People complaining about MS closing the market on poor old Valve(who have also had their own issues with anti-competitive behaviour)... I hope they do! Then they may start Half Life 3.

 

[Nervusbreakdown]

So let me get right. SO MS can have their own store and do what they want but Company like Unreal and Steam throws a tittie attack? I say f*ckem and go for it MS because its your OS. IF they can do better then let them make their own OS....oh wait did I say that to loud?

 

[Visual Rhino]

 

[Kassen]

Fine. Give me a link to a summary of the high dollar class action suit referenced in your first two posts, so I can review the actual facts and not just your recitation of them.

Weirdly I can't seem to find it anywhere, but anyways, Windows 8 was not just some UI change up. Many features and functions were lost or made difficult to operate in the name of oversimplifying for a consumer tablet format.

 

[hrudey]

Weirdly I can't seem to find it anywhere, but anyways, Windows 8 was not just some UI change up. Many features and functions were lost or made difficult to operate in the name of oversimplifying for a consumer tablet format.

Yeah, some stuff was lost. If your/Tim Sweeney's argument was that MS might make changes that could cause some things to not work (e.g., disc-based DRM for Civ IV won't work because of security issues with the component that handled that), I'd have no argument. Stuff changes. But removing support for all non-UWP non-Windows Store apps from the mainstream windows releases is something that doesn't make sense in the least unless one either has a massive anti-MS agenda or doesn't seem to realize what a small piece of their income the store is and would be vs. what they make on corporate and individual licenses.

 

[Kassen]

Yeah, some stuff was lost. If your/Tim Sweeney's argument was that MS might make changes that could cause some things to not work (e.g., disc-based DRM for Civ IV won't work because of security issues with the component that handled that), I'd have no argument. Stuff changes. But removing support for all non-UWP non-Windows Store apps from the mainstream windows releases is something that doesn't make sense in the least unless one either has a massive anti-MS agenda or doesn't seem to realize what a small piece of their income the store is and would be vs. what they make on corporate and individual licenses.

I don't mind the idea of believing you when you say that Microsoft would never make any extreme changes to their products that would knowingly tick off their consumer base, but they did already with Windows 8, Xbox One, and Windows 10 as they have. Because Microsoft is not afraid to lose some money building their UWP store into their ideal platform.

 

[hrudey]

I don't mind the idea of believing you when you say that Microsoft would never make any extreme changes to their products that would knowingly tick off their consumer base, but they did already with Windows 8, Xbox One, and Windows 10 as they have. Because Microsoft is not afraid to lose some money building their UWP store into their ideal platform.

Some money, yes. They're not going to cut off support for Win32 apps because the shareholders would riot when they find out MS is telling their exceptionally profitable corporate customer base that all the applications they depend on for business are not going to work unless they're rewritten for UWP. It'd be like kicking the guy paying you a thousand dollars a week in the crotch so you can steal a penny from him - you might be evil enough to think it would be fun, but you'll never find anyone with any sense to ever endorse it.

 

[Kassen]

Some money, yes. They're not going to cut off support for Win32 apps because the shareholders would riot when they find out MS is telling their exceptionally profitable corporate customer base that all the applications they depend on for business are not going to work unless they're rewritten for UWP. It'd be like kicking the guy paying you a thousand dollars a week in the crotch so you can steal a penny from him - you might be evil enough to think it would be fun, but you'll never find anyone with any sense to ever endorse it.

Stockholders won't like it? I don't think you can speak for them. Also I don't think anyone has yet said a thing about flipping a switch and instakilling traditional applications on a moment's notice. Or at least not until Microsoft makes significant headway with their UWP that is. Microsoft still has to worry about competition and all.