Official Thread Pillow Fight that nobody wins with MOAR Jackie Chan and guys comfortable with STRETCHING their sexuality!

Status
Not open for further replies.
It's funny, so many people talk about input lag but I never even put my TV in game mode, I have it set to not go to game mode automatically because the games don't look as good in GM as they do in the standard mode. Outside of game mode my set has an 88ms response time and I don't notice any kind of delay.


Do you or have you ever played competitive fighting games at a competitive level?
 
I notice things like framerate drops etc but to me even over 80ms is totally playable, if you go by what some people say on forums though anything over 7ms is unplayable lol.
Well, if you're a Playstation fan, you've probably endured 200+ ms controller latency with some frequency... one of the Uncharted games (maybe 2?) had input latency of over 200ms... gorgeous games, but the gameplay was never great.
 
I am sure both consoles will have some "custom" features like RDNA 3 stuff.
My guess is AMD gets to incorporate some custom ideas and R&D that MS and Sony came up with into Rdna3 as part of the deals they make with those companies that arent part of base RDNA 2 tech.
 
  • Agree
Reactions: karmakid

This sounds cool and all but.. not to be a debby downer...

“But now it’s hardware accelerated,” he continued. “It means there’s no reason not to use it. For us, it will most likely mean PS5 might sound better with the flick of a switch. Assuming you have the audio system to handle that. Also means we could have a CPU thread freed from heavy audio computation! Even if both consoles had exactly the same CPU, having a specific task being hardware accelerated can be a huge boost for the CPU.”

Will most likely. Might. Could. 😠

This is my problem with journalism nowadays. I'm not convinced this guys comments aren't based off of what he's heard, or his own interpretation of existing news. Not what he's doing. It's a remark anyone could make. Does he have a dev kit and actively working on it? It doesn't even say that. It just says hes a "developer ".

That being said, I am interested in what the tempest engine brings to the table. This just feels like another nothing article to me.
 
Not to also be a debbie downer but I heard XSX sound takes up more resources.
Maybe? They both have hardware accelerated audio. Maybe Sony does have a lighter solution. Haven't had any new info. That's the problem.

A lot if these stories we get are impressions but they aren't framed that way. I'm just looking at the devs wording. The writer paints an impression around it. They are justifying their jobs by writing new articles in the middle of an info drought. I just want real info.
 
Maybe? They both have hardware accelerated audio. Maybe Sony does have a lighter solution. Haven't had any new info. That's the problem.

A lot if these stories we get are impressions but they aren't framed that way. I'm just looking at the devs wording. The writer paints an impression around it. They are justifying their jobs by writing new articles in the middle of an info drought. I just want real info.

Yeah, it could be that the PS5 is just more capable when it comes to sound and more can be done with it's hardware but MS likely has a good enough solution in their console that it probably won't matter much to most people. This could just be one area where PS5 bests XSX because Sony was more ambitious in that area with their design but it may not make a whole lot of difference to a lot of people.

I don't know, I wish people who did these interviews had the technical knowledge to ask proper follow up questions, half of these "journalists" have no more knowledge than most of us posting here, hell I'm sure a few of you guys have a much better understanding of all of this stuff than most of them.
 
  • Agree
Reactions: Frozpot
Yeah, it could be that the PS5 is just more capable when it comes to sound and more can be done with it's hardware but MS likely has a good enough solution in their console that it probably won't matter much to most people. This could just be one area where PS5 bests XSX because Sony was more ambitious in that area with their design but it may not make a whole lot of difference to a lot of people.

I don't know, I wish people who did these interviews had the technical knowledge to ask proper follow up questions, half of these "journalists" have no more knowledge than most of us posting here, hell I'm sure a few of you guys have a much better understanding of all of this stuff than most of them.

John Linneman from Digital Foundary did seem to believe Sony was doing a little more in this area when he was on a podcast with my buddy BRAP. I'm not enough of a sound officianado to know what that could even mean but people seem to be really excited about this area of the PS5.
 
Yeah, it could be that the PS5 is just more capable when it comes to sound and more can be done with it's hardware but MS likely has a good enough solution in their console that it probably won't matter much to most people. This could just be one area where PS5 bests XSX because Sony was more ambitious in that area with their design but it may not make a whole lot of difference to a lot of people.

I don't know, I wish people who did these interviews had the technical knowledge to ask proper follow up questions, half of these "journalists" have no more knowledge than most of us posting here, hell I'm sure a few of you guys have a much better understanding of all of this stuff than most of them.
In all honesty, I'd expect Sony to have a leg up in audio. I mean, that's their roots.
 
  • Agree
Reactions: JinCA
In all honesty, I'd expect Sony to have a leg up in audio. I mean, that's their roots.
I have always equated Sony to hardware and MS to software. It seems they are both spreading their wings.
 
I have always equated Sony to hardware and MS to software. It seems they are both spreading their wings.
Yeah, but people act like MS doesn't do hardware too. They make laptops and PCs (surface), as well as put lots of R&D into VR and AR (hololens). They do plenty of hardware innovation.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Flynn
Yeah, but people act like MS doesn't do hardware too. They make laptops and PCs (surface), as well as put lots of R&D into VR and AR (hololens). They do plenty of hardware innovation.
Yeah, I noticed the MS wants more hardware. It's not like they haven't done mice, keyboards, ZUNE!!!!. I also remember they did wifi routers, the DSS80 sounds system, racing wheels. But with the Surface, they seem to be making a dent finally, along with Xbox.

My wife has a Surface now. While I personally find it better than many of the other Windows laptops out there, the fit/finish/quality feel compared to the 2019 Macbook Pro that I have still doesn't measure up. I am talking about the feel and response of the trackpad, keyboard. The Mac also just feels higher end when you close it and feel everything.

I do like how she can remove the screen and use it as a tablet though.
 


Dat audio


On the BC front, I'm pretty sure the XSX is compatible not so much because they have the same core architecture, but because MS put a ton of work into virtualizing that hardware architecture to work. The reason XSX can do it is because MS figured it out already with the Xbox One and have been making those games BC for YEARS. If it was just a similar core architecture, then they would just be running the games native. I think he's pretty far off on that front and it effects his interpretation in other areas.

Comments like MS not taking into account bottlenecks and not much customization on the Velocity Architecture (what?), seem pretty off base as well. Not that I'm saying Sony hasn't come up with a very superior SSD tech, that doesn't mean MS didn't build mitigating tech in. I've seen a lot of comments about XSX have less customized hardware which is just silly. MS obviously poured R&D into their solution- it just doesn't match Sony's. That could simply be a cost issue too. Him saying that is the "Entirety of the Velocity Architecture" seems pretty bold. I don't doubt there is a lot more to it.

I think dude is doing a pretty good job of simplifying some of these things though. He, like the rest of us, is not privy to all of the information about these consoles. In some ways it's just not prudent to to apply standard uses and function to these customized machines that have had years of R&D poured into them. They will be doing things differently.

I'm not sure how he thinks the PS5 will have the edge in shading. 3584 vs 2304 shader processors.....Eh, ok. SSDs don't render for you.

I really don't know why he's comparing Project Acoustics to Tempest. They don't even address the same thing. Tempest, and HRTF should be more comparable to Atmos. It's how the sound is directed into the ear and how it calculates and delivers that 3d sound.

HRTF's advantages probably aren't terribly superior without headphones, though Cerney stated that they were working on a solution to that (not sure how though, as with headphones you can direct the sound from a source close to the ear in order to utilize the specific shape profile. From what I understand, HRTF looses a lot of it's effectiveness if the profile is not close enough to the listeners actual ear shape profile.

I'm also pretty sure MS' Audio chip is not built around project acoustics- it's just there to take audio Processes off the CPU. PA uses an off-line, cloud-computed, baked data set that ascribes accurate sound properties into the environment for calculation of reverb and occlusion. Exactly how these technologies are handled and which portions are handled in the dedicated sound hardware has not been discussed.

We really won't know how things manifest until we see the games, so making definitive statements about what they can/can't do doesn't make much sense.
 
In fact here is a clip from a 2015 Endgadget article

It wasn't easy. It took some pretty dedicated engineering effort and very talented engineers. What they did was they created a software-based 360 emulation within the Xbox One architecture. So, when you put your disc in the drive, we're actually loading up an emulator, and then we put up a little portion of the Xbox 360 dashboard and you use that dashboard to launch into your game. You still have access though to all the great Xbox One features: game streaming, game DVR, screenshots. It works for digital games as well and your saved games do transfer. Gamers have put so much into 360 games, so much passion, energy, time, money, and that value I think is important for us to bring into the Xbox One story.

Software emulation. They did not limit the console's design in order to achieve BC. So yeah, keep laughing. Dude was already basing his analysis on faulty (and easily searchable) thinking and I'm supposed to be impressed by his take? Eh. He's like every other person acting like they have a grip on exactly what's going on.

EDIT: On HRTF- it's very similar to Binaural recordings (the impressive part for games being that it's simulating it and adapting it positionally) my comments about it being less impactful without headphones stems from videos I've watched on HRTF (it's been researched by a lot of different companies including Microsoft), and the very different effect say, ASMR videos (many use Binaural microphones) have with or without headphones.
 
Last edited:
On the BC front, I'm pretty sure the XSX is compatible not so much because they have the same core architecture, but because MS put a ton of work into virtualizing that hardware architecture to work. The reason XSX can do it is because MS figured it out already with the Xbox One and have been making those games BC for YEARS. If it was just a similar core architecture, then they would just be running the games native. I think he's pretty far off on that front and it effects his interpretation in other areas.

Comments like MS not taking into account bottlenecks and not much customization on the Velocity Architecture (what?), seem pretty off base as well. Not that I'm saying Sony hasn't come up with a very superior SSD tech, that doesn't mean MS didn't build mitigating tech in. I've seen a lot of comments about XSX have less customized hardware which is just silly. MS obviously poured R&D into their solution- it just doesn't match Sony's. That could simply be a cost issue too. Him saying that is the "Entirety of the Velocity Architecture" seems pretty bold. I don't doubt there is a lot more to it.

I think dude is doing a pretty good job of simplifying some of these things though. He, like the rest of us, is not privy to all of the information about these consoles. In some ways it's just not prudent to to apply standard uses and function to these customized machines that have had years of R&D poured into them. They will be doing things differently.

I'm not sure how he thinks the PS5 will have the edge in shading. 3584 vs 2304 shader processors.....Eh, ok. SSDs don't render for you.

I really don't know why he's comparing Project Acoustics to Tempest. They don't even address the same thing. Tempest, and HRTF should be more comparable to Atmos. It's how the sound is directed into the ear and how it calculates and delivers that 3d sound.

HRTF's advantages probably aren't terribly superior without headphones, though Cerney stated that they were working on a solution to that (not sure how though, as with headphones you can direct the sound from a source close to the ear in order to utilize the specific shape profile. From what I understand, HRTF looses a lot of it's effectiveness if the profile is not close enough to the listeners actual ear shape profile.

I'm also pretty sure MS' Audio chip is not built around project acoustics- it's just there to take audio Processes off the CPU. PA uses an off-line, cloud-computed, baked data set that ascribes accurate sound properties into the environment for calculation of reverb and occlusion. Exactly how these technologies are handled and which portions are handled in the dedicated sound hardware has not been discussed.

We really won't know how things manifest until we see the games, so making definitive statements about what they can/can't do doesn't make much sense.

whilst watch I was wondering “didn't Xbox state they had an audio chip too?”
 
Status
Not open for further replies.