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I was thinking that developers would have to go back to baking lighting and not be able to use global illumination at all on lockhart. The way I understand it developers are looking to save time and money next gen by abandoning stuff like baked lighting. The way you explained it all they would have to do is tune it down for the lowerend Xbox Sku.
It will do Dynamic GI. To be honest, it is hard to tell how resource intensive this non-triangle based bounced lighting actually is, it won't be cheap, but it will likely be cheaper than typical triangle based Ray Tracing.

The textures in the demo are insane too. Eack of those statues has 24 8K textures. Plus 16K shadow maps for every light.

People were complaining it was only 1440P, but with this level of detail and clarity it just doesn't matter.
 
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It will do Dynamic GI. To be honest, it is hard to tell how resource intensive this non-triangle based bounced lighting actually is, it won't be cheap, but it will likely be cheaper than typical triangle based Ray Tracing.

The textures in the demo are insane too. Eack of those statues has 24 8K textures. Plus 16K shadow maps for every light.

People were complaining it was only 1440P, but with this level of detail and clarity it just doesn't matter.
I still wonder how practical it all is, and how big the file sizes will be.
 
I don't think anyone honestly believes they don't have a lot to show. They are also in a much better position than last time because they didn't blow their load of game releases to the same degree as in 2013.

You'd be surprised. It makes for great news, though.
 
I still wonder how practical it all is, and how big the file sizes will be.
It clearly isn't too practical at that level, but this is an extreme. I highly doubt many, if any, AAA game uses 8K textures. I doubt they would use half the amount of textures per statue.

The Dynamic GI will scale bounces back and might use predictive solutions to enhance it.

Hopefully we will find out soon. The PS5 event is not too far away.
 
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It clearly isn't too practical at that level, but this is an extreme. I highly doubt many, if any, AAA game uses 8K textures. I doubt they would use half the amount of textures per statue.

The Dynamic GI will scale bounces back and might use predictive solutions to enhance it.

Hopefully we will find out soon. The PS5 event is not too far away.
Agreed. The GI is just a calculation, of course, so just running few samples will still look good but will be less precise. maybe not as temporaly stable
 


Sony: Partnership With Microsoft on Cloud Gaming Is Going to Be “Very Strong;” PS5 Lineup Reveal Teased
Giuseppe NelvaMay 19, 2020
Home » News » Sony: Partnership With Microsoft on Cloud Gaming Is Going to Be “Very Strong;” PS5 Lineup Reveal Teased
Sony is hosting its Corporate Strategy Meeting in Tokyo, and its executives provided more information about the PlayStation business.

Interestingly, we got an update on the collaboration with Microsoft announced last year.

We hear that Sony is taking a long-term view on this partnership and is discussing the details of the collaboration with Microsoft.

Specifically about games, the discussion focuses on how streaming services from the cloud should be. According to executive vice president Toru Katsumoto, Microsoft’s Azure has “splendid” cloud technology and Microsoft has provided Sony with explanations about it.

Mutual understanding between the two companies is “deepening” following discussions over the past year.

One of the points being discussed is the “dark time” since gamers usually play at night, so there may be congestion of the servers during that timeframe, while during the day there are no issues. Due to this, how to use the servers effectively and efficiently is a relevant technical point on the table.

Katsumoto-san concluded by mentioning that on a mid-to-long-term basis this is going to be a “very strong partnership.”

We also learn that PlayStation Now reached over 2.2 million units by the end of April 2020.

On top of that monthly active users of the remote play feature in December 2019 were 2.5 times as many as those in December 2018.

We then the promise that Sony plans to reveal the lineup of PS5 games soon, with further confirmation that the production of both hardware and software is going on according to the company’s schedule with the aim to release the console during the holiday shopping season.
 
According to Jeff Grubb the guy that gave the original June 4th date which he now says has moved a few days, the PS5 reveal will have fewer 3rd party games than originally anticipated because Sony wants to limit games being shown that aren't actually running on a PS5. I think they saw the backlash MS got for nearly every game at their reveal saying they were basically not running on the console and just approximated versions and didn't want that backlash to ruin their reveal. Funny thing is in the past when we'd see games early they were never running on the consoles either because the dev kits are never done that early, it's always been approximated PC hardware but now they are all more honest about it and people get pissed.

"Sony just wants to limit the use of the "disclaimer: this game is running in a PC environment but will be optimized for PS5."
 
Isn't it sad how freely we throw that term around? lol we all call them that, I wonder how abused women feel when they hear it? lol
Yeah... as a non amerikan, I found it hilarious the first time a heard the term, couldn't believe you could say it out loud lol
Wonder if gaming companies would put the term in text in a game in 2020
 
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Yeah... as a non amerikan, I found it hilarious the first time a heard the term, couldn't believe you could say it out loud lol
Wonder if gaming companies would put the term in text in a game in 2020

come to think of it, you know, I don’t think I’ve ever heard anyone say it out loud irl...only online or maybe tv?
 
According to Jeff Grubb the guy that gave the original June 4th date which he now says has moved a few days, the PS5 reveal will have fewer 3rd party games than originally anticipated because Sony wants to limit games being shown that aren't actually running on a PS5. I think they saw the backlash MS got for nearly every game at their reveal saying they were basically not running on the console and just approximated versions and didn't want that backlash to ruin their reveal. Funny thing is in the past when we'd see games early they were never running on the consoles either because the dev kits are never done that early, it's always been approximated PC hardware but now they are all more honest about it and people get pissed.
I don't get it. I haven't seen anybody complain about that from the Xbox event.
 
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Isn't it sad how freely we throw that term around? lol we all call them that, I wonder how abused women feel when they hear it? lol
Yeah. We didn't all used to have sticks up our asses either. Used to be we joked about horrible stuff to disempower it. Now we protect ourselves to the point of enfeeblement. So much easier to become damaged by our lack of mental resilience.
 
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This reminds me of when Sony was in a legal battle with immersion and they had to remove the rumble from the DualShock (branding it Sixaxis) controller for a brief period of time. Games didn't feel the same anymore. With DualSense, i feel like this will be the same when using dated, rumble technology compared to haptics.

I was reading an article the other day where a developer using the DualSense said that you could feel it raining during weather scenes. Rumble motors couldn't do this even if it wanted to; there is just far too much activity to track, so developers don't bother implementing any typs of effect at all. These types of things are just the tip of the iceberg, and that' just the haptics. When you start incorporating the other inputs into the controller -- especially things like the tempest engine, i really think games are going to truely come to life.

That's why i say visuals are good, but when you remove everything else, it kinda feels like that Sixaxis controller.
 
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I was reading an article the other day where a developer using the DualSense said that you could feel it raining during weather scenes. Rumble motors couldn't do this even if it wanted to; there is just far too much activity to track, so developers don't bother implementing any typs of effect at all. These types of things are just the tip of the iceberg, and that' just the haptics. When you start incorporating the other inputs into the controller -- especially things like the tempest engine, i really think games are going to truely come to life.

I really like the possibilities, I just hope they are taken advantage of. I’m sure first party games will use the haptics, but will 3rd party? I wonder if it’s an easy thing to implement...?

Lots of cool potential there for sure, though.
 
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I really like the possibilities, I just hope they are taken advantage of. I’m sure first party games will use the haptics, but will 3rd party? I wonder if it’s an easy thing to implement...?

Lots of cool potential there for sure, though.

Well, i do know one thing... the haptics in the controller are not housed together with the dated rumble tech. They, instead, replace the rumble tech entirely. So there is no optional use; it is the default standard to all games.

But like you said, i, too, expect Sony’s first and second party to take full advantage of the controller. Now, VR is a completely different animal. The controller basically has VR written all over it. That level of immersion will be scary real if it weren't already.
 
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Well, i do know one thing... the haptics in the controller are not housed together with the dated rumble tech. They, instead, replace the rumble tech entirely. So there is no optional use; it is the default standard to all games.

But like you said, i, too, expect Sony’s first and second party to take full advantage of the controller. Now, VR is a completely different animal. The controller basically has VR written all over it. That level of immersion will be scary real if it weren't already.

Yuck. I'm not a fan of VR with a standard controller, myself. All the haptics in the world will not replace having individual hand control. Ever. It's waay inferior. Hell, even having a cord tethered to the headset sucks (necessary as it is for some games). If you've ever used an Oculus Quest you know what I'm talking about.

On haptics, I really do hope it gets used. The X1's controller had great haptics but it was only utilized more than standard rumble in a few games. It's transformative in Forza. Rumble is essential for me. I love it. It's one thing that disappoints me about the XSXs controller. I wish they had improved it.
 
Yuck. I'm not a fan of VR with a standard controller, myself. All the haptics in the world will not replace having individual hand control. Ever. It's waay inferior. Hell, even having a cord tethered to the headset sucks (necessary as it is for some games). If you've ever used an Oculus Quest you know what I'm talking about.

On haptics, I really do hope it gets used. The X1's controller had great haptics but it was only utilized more than standard rumble in a few games. It's transformative in Forza. Rumble is essential for me. I love it. It's one thing that disappoints me about the XSXs controller. I wish they had improved it.


I somewhat agree with you about the pad in VR. In some instances, it doesn't work as well as the motion controllers, but with some VR titles does it only work with the pad. For example, Astro Bots is one of those games where using a pad feels normal or any third person game, for that matter while still granting the user a true VR experience. I mean, could you imagine pulling off a combination in a game like Spider-Man in VR with motion controllers? That would be insanely tiring on the arms and body. It's obvious Sony gave the pad a lot of thought before implementing it in VR.

On another note, I'm sure the pad is standard for VR for those that don't feel like moving around as much. This marketing leaves no gamer excluded during that transition.

Also, there is only so much you can do with rumble in triggers. For one, you have to press them for any vibration to even work. This basically cuts out everything else that takes place in a game before the trigger are even pressed. This is one of the obvious differences right here from these two controllers. The DualSense haptics are in the body of the controller, which also affects the analog sticks.
 
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Saw this on resetera, it may help clear things up for people who are still confused about the variable clocks and keep believing the nonsense that comes from places like windows central etc.
This is an addition to that series of tweets.
 
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I've been saying this for the longest. It's like people just aren't getting it for some reason -- perhaps due to the architecture being revolutionary. In Mark Cerny's speech The Road to PS5, right around 10:00 to 10:28 he talks about what he wanted from an SSD. Load times isn't the main reason he wanted the SSD. The MAIN reason he wanted the SSD was for streaming purposes, and not just any type of stream. The time frame of that video is where he talks about how fast he wanted that streaming to take place while in the game. PS5'S SSD was designed to stream textures (over 4GBs) in .27 secs, or as fast as you could turn your characters head inside the game.

At about 12:11 to 13:00, Mark Cerny talks about the SSD acting as extra RAM, which is why he thought 16GB of memory was more than enough for the system. In fact, the PS5'S SSD RAM is faster than the memory in the PS5, which leaves me to believe that Sony was planning on using the SSD's speedy virtual RAM to make up for the slower RAM in the system to tackle bigger tasks.

I honestly don't think Microsoft took this into consideration -- loading game textures on the fly or in the middle of you moving around in the game with the SSD, but more so using the SSD, first and foremost, for faster load times between level and for when you are going to potentially pass from one point of the game to the other. I say that because their SSD can be used for RAM as well but it's not nearly as fast to carry the amount of data as Sony's SSD. So they more than likely didn't anticipated it doing any heavy lifting like PS5's SSD. Basically what this means is, Sony’s system is going to have a lot more on screen at one time. THIS is what they were trying to show in the Spider-Man demo when they sped the game up when they were showing off the early SSD's capabilities, but people were looking at it as load times rather than the SSD streaming that information that fast without a single pop-in or pause in the game. I saw this samething in the Unreal Engine -- especially during that flying scene. But if you listen to Sweeney in his interview, he tells you exactly what that SSD was actually streaming, and it wasn't just the flying scene. It was too fast for the RAM in the system to keep up.

So like I've been trying to say, that demo can be ran on other systems, but at what cost is the question. If that demo was SSD intense, maybe I'm missing something, but I'd like to know how any slower SSD could keep up by running the same tasks without maxing itself out. But now i am also wondering if Microsoft's SSD is built like the SSDs that Mark Cerny described (being 100x fast than pass gen consoles but after going through the whole process of reading that data, it ends up being 2x the speed once you start running into all the bottlenecks he talked about).
 
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They took this down and put out a statement that they have no knowledge of it but that just makes me believe it more

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