A New Hope: A political thread!

cmstophe

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Curious as to what you consider "radical."

Was just trying to think of whatever the latest buzzword is for the far left. Far right, far left, both are pure poison. Moderation is the future but in a partisan heavy politic system it can be a little uncomfortable for people who dont fall in line with one side or the other. Bernie, AOC, hesitant to throw Kamala in there because I know she has to represent her constituents so I’m not sure where her true colors lie- but that ilk, I’m not a huge fan of. I’m sure they have the country’s interests at heart, but doesn’t mean I think their agenda would be good for the country.
 

yankeessuck

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Was just trying to think of whatever the latest buzzword is for the far left. Far right, far left, both are pure poison. Moderation is the future but in a partisan heavy politic system it can be a little uncomfortable for people who dont fall in line with one side or the other. Bernie, AOC, hesitant to throw Kamala in there because I know she has to represent her constituents so I’m not sure where her true colors lie- but that ilk, I’m not a huge fan of. I’m sure they have the country’s interests at heart, but doesn’t mean I think their agenda would be good for the country.
What idea or policy specifically worries you
 
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Plainview

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Was just trying to think of whatever the latest buzzword is for the far left. Far right, far left, both are pure poison. Moderation is the future but in a partisan heavy politic system it can be a little uncomfortable for people who dont fall in line with one side or the other. Bernie, AOC, hesitant to throw Kamala in there because I know she has to represent her constituents so I’m not sure where her true colors lie- but that ilk, I’m not a huge fan of. I’m sure they have the country’s interests at heart, but doesn’t mean I think their agenda would be good for the country.
You're throwing out names. I want to know you consider "radical."
 

cmstophe

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You're throwing out names. I want to know you consider "radical."
I consider segments of the left that want to transition us into so called “democratic socialism” as being radical. If that’s your thing, cool. I’m not here to ruffle your feathers or get into political debate- just dropped my two cents. You can take it or leave it.
 

Plainview

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I consider segments of the left that want to transition us into so called “democratic socialism” as being radical. If that’s your thing, cool. I’m not here to ruffle your feathers or get into political debate- just dropped my two cents. You can take it or leave it.
C, you gotta be more specific than that. The US is already a pretty “socialist” country.
 
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Videodrome

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Well, I'm sold on 'Social Democracy' or whatever label applies to practical social services, safety nets, or careful approaches addressing market failures such as fixing housing cost issues.
 
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cmstophe

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C, you gotta be more specific than that. The US is already a pretty “socialist” country.

That is highly debatable. We’re a mix with a heavy lean on capitalism. Some want to nudge us further towards socialism. The belief that the rich should have their wealth distributed, everybody should get a UBI, there should be universal healthcare, you’ve heard all of these things I’m sure. You don’t think of the States when you think of socialism, lol.

For the record I’m not even saying these aren’t great ideas in a perfect world. It’s the implementation I (and millions of others in my line of thought) worry about. Some countries lean a lot more socialist than the United States, and are doing fine, that I’ll acknowledge. It’s why I always keep an open mind. But every country is different. *shrug*
 

D-V-ANT

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I consider segments of the left that want to transition us into so called “democratic socialism” as being radical. If that’s your thing, cool. I’m not here to ruffle your feathers or get into political debate- just dropped my two cents. You can take it or leave it.

social democracy is pretty much the norm in most European countries, including mine (Ireland). It has pros and cos like everything else but it’s a hugely different thing from what most Americans think it is. They heard the word socialist and immediately go down the Bolshevik route.
 

cmstophe

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Well, I'm sold on 'Social Democracy' or whatever label applies to practical social services, safety nets, or careful approaches addressing market failures such as fixing housing cost issues.

I don’t that that’s unfair nor do I think “democratic socialism” is somehow with ill intent. I’ve heard theorizing about turning the country into a utopia where nobody has to work unless we want extra money and we can all live off UBI happily ever after. Who would say that sounds bad? Lol. It’s the “how” that’s the snag.

Like you stated, there are plenty of policies That can be put into place that may be socialist in nature but are perfectly good and plausible. s***, we have many right now as Plain said. It’s important to note that many point to northern Europe as a bastion of successful socialism when in fact those are simply nations with very effective welfare and entitlement systems, “social” programs that work for the betterment of peoples’ lives but not true socialism. Many of those programs may be to the benefit of America if implemented properly. But socialism- actual socialism- implies government control and intervention much more stringently than what we see in capitalism, and here in the States.
 
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cmstophe

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social democracy is pretty much the norm in most European countries, including mine (Ireland). It has pros and cos like everything else but it’s a hugely different thing from what most Americans think it is. They heard the word socialist and immediately going down the Bolshevik route.

Yeah. I know it is. It’s an important distinction right. The question is if what those countries have is equally applicable and implementable to the United States. I’m not saying it is or isn’t. I’m hardly an authority on any of this- simply going by what I know already and have read. Maybe it is. I’m skeptical. I might be totally wrong. As someone whose greatly benefitted from strong private healthcare, how would my experience differed if this country had universal healthcare? I don’t know. What happens to the economy if everyone is getting $2000 a month from the gubberment? Just some things that have me skeptical but there’s always someone around every corner on the Internet to tell you why you’re wrong. 😅

Biden isn’t a damn socialist anyways, so I’m just spittin’ because someone asked.
 

tumorman

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That is highly debatable. We’re a mix with a heavy lean on capitalism. Some want to nudge us further towards socialism. The belief that the rich should have their wealth distributed, everybody should get a UBI, there should be universal healthcare, you’ve heard all of these things I’m sure. You don’t think of the States when you think of socialism, lol.

For the record I’m not even saying these aren’t great ideas in a perfect world. It’s the implementation I (and millions of others in my line of thought) worry about. Some countries lean a lot more socialist than the United States, and are doing fine, that I’ll acknowledge. It’s why I always keep an open mind. But every country is different. *shrug*
I don't necessarily believe in a UBI, as much as that would be awesome, I just don't think it'd entirely feasible. I also don't believe the rich should have their wealth redistributed either.

I do however believe that the rich should abso freaking lutley be taxed at a higher rate, and the tax laws be reexamined to see exactly how f***ed things have gotten. The rate of wealth between the middle class and rich class has gotten so wide there's not really a so much of a middle class anymore.

I also believe in universal health care, but I still don't think we're gonna get it under Sleepy Joe
 
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cmstophe

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I don't necessarily believe in a UBI, as much as that would be awesome, I just don't think it'd entirely feasible. I also don't believe the rich should have their wealth redistributed either.

I do however believe that the rich should abso freaking lutley be taxed at a higher rate, and the tax laws be reexamined to see exactly how f***ed things have gotten. The rate of wealth between the middle class and rich class has gotten so wide there's not really a so much of a middle class anymore.

I also believe in universal health care, but I still don't think we're gonna get it under Sleepy Joe

Yeah, we’re on the same page. Like you said s***, I’d be down to only have to work to make extra money on top of a UBI. Feasible, probably not.

Curious what you think about the noted cons of universal healthcare. Lower quality care, harder to expedite said care, etc. if you have any opinions on it. I’ve heard both sides and I think it’d be great for everyone to have healthcare, but I’m also aware that nothing is as good as it sounds and there are plenty of disadvantages to it.
 

hrudey

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K follow up question. Does anybody wanna just give me $10k then?
Want to, absolutely. Someone wanna give me $20k so I can help a brother out?

No?

Thanks, Obama.
 

cmstophe

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Never even got my second stimulus. Do I blame Trump or can I blame Biden now?
 

yankeessuck

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Yeah, we’re on the same page. Like you said s***, I’d be down to only have to work to make extra money on top of a UBI. Feasible, probably not.

Curious what you think about the noted cons of universal healthcare. Lower quality care, harder to expedite said care, etc. if you have any opinions on it. I’ve heard both sides and I think it’d be great for everyone to have healthcare, but I’m also aware that nothing is as good as it sounds and there are plenty of disadvantages to it.

UBI isn't a real thing. Its not a thing anyone in office is pushing for and if it was a thing nobody would be claiming people wouldn't need to work.
 

hrudey

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Yeah, we’re on the same page. Like you said s***, I’d be down to only have to work to make extra money on top of a UBI. Feasible, probably not.

Curious what you think about the noted cons of universal healthcare. Lower quality care, harder to expedite said care, etc. if you have any opinions on it. I’ve heard both sides and I think it’d be great for everyone to have healthcare, but I’m also aware that nothing is as good as it sounds and there are plenty of disadvantages to it.
I think there's a difference between state-run healthcare, which is where those problems are more legitimate, and state-funded or single payer. I worked for I've if the large insurance carriers for seven or so years and I can honestly say that they contribute essentially nothing positive, but boy do they know red tape (though of course, the whole point is to keep the mcr, medical claims ratio) as low as possible by avoiding paying when they can, refusing to authorize service when possible, and getting doctors and patients to give up.

I'm on my phone so typing much more is unpleasant to think about, but if everyone was on Medicare rather than a patchwork of state and private plans, some subject to state mandates and others exempt because of how they are funded, and we had one consistent set of coverage guidelines, we'd save a f***ton of money that's squeezed out of the system that doesn't help us even be a middle of the pack nation in our health outcomes.
 

cmstophe

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I think there's a difference between state-run healthcare, which is where those problems are more legitimate, and state-funded or single payer. I worked for I've if the large insurance carriers for seven or so years and I can honestly say that they contribute essentially nothing positive, but boy do they know red tape (though of course, the whole point is to keep the mcr, medical claims ratio) as low as possible by avoiding paying when they can, refusing to authorize service when possible, and getting doctors and patients to give up.

I'm on my phone so typing much more is unpleasant to think about, but if everyone was on Medicare rather than a patchwork of state and private plans, some subject to state mandates and others exempt because of how they are funded, and we had one consistent set of coverage guidelines, we'd save a f***ton of money that's squeezed out of the system that doesn't help us even be a middle of the pack nation in our health outcomes.

Thanks for the insight, that is interesting!
 

JinCA

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And I would have no place to post this

This is actually sad, why are people so desperately looking for some kind of savior? it's not just politics I notice a lot of this kind of desperation to worship someone going on a lot more than it used to, too many people are just lost.
 

Spiritech

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This is actually sad, why are people so desperately looking for some kind of savior? it's not just politics I notice a lot of this kind of desperation to worship someone going on a lot more than it used to, too many people are just lost.


We have a massive mental health crisis. Unfortunatley its taken a back seat to other more pressing crisis's. I hope it gets the attention it needs soon.
 

Kerosene31

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Yeah, we’re on the same page. Like you said s***, I’d be down to only have to work to make extra money on top of a UBI. Feasible, probably not.

Curious what you think about the noted cons of universal healthcare. Lower quality care, harder to expedite said care, etc. if you have any opinions on it. I’ve heard both sides and I think it’d be great for everyone to have healthcare, but I’m also aware that nothing is as good as it sounds and there are plenty of disadvantages to it.

This is what the right tries to spin about Biden and it simply isn't true.

There's simply no way in heck Biden is going to get universal basic income or universal healthcare passed. There's zero chance. Even if somehow Biden was some racical lying in wait (lol) it isn't getting past a very conservative senate. Even the house shifted more right this election.

If you don't like him or his policies, fine, but don't listen to the false narrative that so many outlets push. The people who do push those kinds of ideas lost in the primary. That means even among Democrats they are the majority.

Hopefully we'll get another stimulus check. Maybe Biden can rebuild some of ACA. There's a reason a lot of people on the far left don't like Biden, and it is because he won't go far left. It took Obama and a strong Democrat majority to even get ACA passed, which is a far cry from extreme socialism. My guess is he won't get anything on healthcare, unless something crazy happens in the mid terms for 2022. Typically though, the first mid term shifts to the other party.

I'd go so far as to predict that universal healthcare never happens in my lifetime in this country. It is just too big and there's just too many problems. Smaller countries can pull it off, but we can't even get checks out to people via the same way they filed their taxes.

I'm a life long independent voter who considers myself pretty centrist on most things. Biden is very well aligned in the middle. I actually don't agree with him on absolutely everything, and that's ok! Centrist Democrats are still the closet thing we have to the middle in this country.
 
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ZombiesRUCrazy

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"Centrist" democrats in this country would be the conservatives in pretty much any other country in the western world.
"Leftist" democrats in this country are the liberal party in pretty much any other country in the western world.
Republicans in this country are the nationalists/fascists in pretty much any other country in the western world.

I don't think people understand how far the this country has been pulled to the right since Reagan.
 

cmstophe

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This is what the right tries to spin about Biden and it simply isn't true.

There's simply no way in heck Biden is going to get universal basic income or universal healthcare passed. There's zero chance. Even if somehow Biden was some racical lying in wait (lol) it isn't getting past a very conservative senate. Even the house shifted more right this election.

If you don't like him or his policies, fine, but don't listen to the false narrative that so many outlets push. The people who do push those kinds of ideas lost in the primary. That means even among Democrats they are the majority.

Hopefully we'll get another stimulus check. Maybe Biden can rebuild some of ACA. There's a reason a lot of people on the far left don't like Biden, and it is because he won't go far left. It took Obama and a strong Democrat majority to even get ACA passed, which is a far cry from extreme socialism. My guess is he won't get anything on healthcare, unless something crazy happens in the mid terms for 2022. Typically though, the first mid term shifts to the other party.

I'd go so far as to predict that universal healthcare never happens in my lifetime in this country. It is just too big and there's just too many problems. Smaller countries can pull it off, but we can't even get checks out to people via the same way they filed their taxes.

I'm a life long independent voter who considers myself pretty centrist on most things. Biden is very well aligned in the middle. I actually don't agree with him on absolutely everything, and that's ok! Centrist Democrats are still the closet thing we have to the middle in this country.

I actually said in one of these posts Biden is none of these things, lol. Same one I said as a moderate I could talk myself into Biden because he really is so moderate, for better or worse (depends on your partisanship). But yeah. I agree.
 

cmstophe

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"Centrist" democrats in this country would be the conservatives in pretty much any other country in the western world.
"Leftist" democrats in this country are the liberal party in pretty much any other country in the western world.
Republicans in this country are the nationalists/fascists in pretty much any other country in the western world.

I don't think people understand how far the this country has been pulled to the right since Reagan.

Had a friend in Canada tell me the same exact thing actually. Was pretty eye opening
 

D-V-ANT

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Yeah. I know it is. It’s an important distinction right. The question is if what those countries have is equally applicable and implementable to the United States. I’m not saying it is or isn’t. I’m hardly an authority on any of this- simply going by what I know already and have read. Maybe it is. I’m skeptical. I might be totally wrong. As someone whose greatly benefitted from strong private healthcare, how would my experience differed if this country had universal healthcare? I don’t know. What happens to the economy if everyone is getting $2000 a month from the gubberment? Just some things that have me skeptical but there’s always someone around every corner on the Internet to tell you why you’re wrong. 😅

Biden isn’t a damn socialist anyways, so I’m just spittin’ because someone asked.
It’s absolutely implementable in the US. The problem on your side is exactly what I said in the first post. Your culture associates democratic socialism with old school Bolshevism. And it’s not the same at all. It’s the baggage associated to the term socialist. That’s the why it doesn’t gather any proper momentum in the US. Look at all those who called Bernie Sanders a communist! That’s exactly the problem.
 
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Plainview

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It’s great seeing all of these musicians performing at Biden’s inauguration today because my relatives love Bruce, and Bon Jovi, and I know it eats them. Lol
 

Videodrome

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Like you stated, there are plenty of policies That can be put into place that may be socialist in nature but are perfectly good and plausible. s***, we have many right now as Plain said. It’s important to note that many point to northern Europe as a bastion of successful socialism when in fact those are simply nations with very effective welfare and entitlement systems, “social” programs that work for the betterment of peoples’ lives but not true socialism. Many of those programs may be to the benefit of America if implemented properly. But socialism- actual socialism- implies government control and intervention much more stringently than what we see in capitalism, and here in the States.

I feel like such things as Government involvement in industries like healthcare has been labeled Socialist by Right Wing Radio or FOX News so they've kind of polluted the whole discussion which gets lost in stupid labels.