A New Hope: A political thread!

hrudey

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In school you only have a limited time and you have a lot to cover, how long did they spend on WW1 or WW2? just a few days right? Multiple months of coverage? that's too long imo. We learned about Japanese internment and all of that other stuff in my school, it was in our history books.

There are schools (private ones so far) that have textbooks that refer to slavery as "black immigration." Texas is now mandating that any talk of stuff like that has to have an alternate view as well (though I guess they'll conveniently leave out, for example, the Mexican side of the Alamo, etc.). Those things are problems. Critical Race Theory is mostly a red herring made up because white parents don't want their white kids to feel bad about s*** their white ancestors did and we have to protect people from being hurt by being associated with their race, as long as they made the good decision to be white.

Or in other words, a bunch of f***ing snowflakes.
 

Videodrome

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I wonder if Racism is just one small aspect of bigger problems like Classism?

Some people complain about the direction America is going in and call it Neo-Feudalism. Feudalism featured an aristocracy with absurd amounts of concentrated wealth and especially authority as well as the Serfs.

I don't think Race was necessarily why a person was stuck in Serfdom, but it may have become part of the situation. Perhaps any unique feature of the population was a convenient way to group and segregate people so they can be exploited.

6438399-Aberjhani-Quote-Maybe-slavery-has-been-with-us-for-centuries.jpg

the-evolution-barcode-prints.jpg
 
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JinCA

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There are schools (private ones so far) that have textbooks that refer to slavery as "black immigration." Texas is now mandating that any talk of stuff like that has to have an alternate view as well (though I guess they'll conveniently leave out, for example, the Mexican side of the Alamo, etc.). Those things are problems. Critical Race Theory is mostly a red herring made up because white parents don't want their white kids to feel bad about s*** their white ancestors did and we have to protect people from being hurt by being associated with their race, as long as they made the good decision to be white.

Or in other words, a bunch of f***ing snowflakes.
The issue isn't just white parents not wanting their kids to feel bad we've learned about slavery/civil rights and who was behind that (white people) in school forever. What I personally think is harmful though is telling kids of color that the system is designed to keep you down and that you won't be able to succeed because of it. Now I don't believe this is something schools across the nation are trying to implement but some are and some teachers who believe these things are trying to implement parts of it in their own way and none of that should be allowed. It is being made a much bigger deal of than it should be but also pretending it's not happening isn't an honest argument either, people need to just say they don't support teaching this in schools and move on but sadly they have segments on pretty much every network where liberal people will come on and say "it's not happening but it's all true too" that helps no one.
 

Plainview

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The issue isn't just white parents not wanting their kids to feel bad we've learned about slavery/civil rights and who was behind that (white people) in school forever. What I personally think is harmful though is telling kids of color that the system is designed to keep you down and that you won't be able to succeed because of it. Now I don't believe this is something schools across the nation are trying to implement but some are and some teachers who believe these things are trying to implement parts of it in their own way and none of that should be allowed. It is being made a much bigger deal of than it should be but also pretending it's not happening isn't an honest argument either, people need to just say they don't support teaching this in schools and move on but sadly they have segments on pretty much every network where liberal people will come on and say "it's not happening but it's all true too" that helps no one.
But the system is, undeniably, designed to keep black people down. If republicans were in full, and total power, it would be end games for people of color.
 

JinCA

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But the system is, undeniably, designed to keep black people down. If republicans were in full, and total power, it would be end games for people of color.
That's not true, there are people who want to keep black people down but man this kind of talk like it's the entire system against them needs to stop. Black people succeed all around us, just because every black person isn't successful doesn't mean that the system is designed to hold them back. Black people who were born here had a different start than most other groups there is no denying that and yes that means they started off behind when it comes to white people, there were things like slavery and other laws later that have since been repealed that did hold black people back but those laws are no longer a thing and no serious Republican running for office is going to try to do things that are literally only there to hold black people back.

When it comes to things like restricting polling stations in Georgia they do that because Black people tend to vote mostly for Democrats, it's about stopping Dems from winning not holding black people down. We have had years where Republicans controlled The House, Senate and White house and people of color weren't targets, they weren't wiped out etc.
 

Plainview

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That's not true, there are people who want to keep black people down but man this kind of talk like it's the entire system against them needs to stop. Black people succeed all around us, just because every black person isn't successful doesn't mean that the system is designed to hold them back. Black people who were born here had a different start than most other groups there is no denying that and yes that means they started off behind when it comes to white people, there were things like slavery and other laws later that have since been repealed that did hold black people back but those laws are no longer a thing and no serious Republican running for office is going to try to do things that are literally only there to hold black people back.

When it comes to things like restricting polling stations in Georgia they do that because Black people tend to vote mostly for Democrats, it's about stopping Dems from winning not holding black people down. We have had years where Republicans controlled The House, Senate and White house and people of color weren't targets, they weren't wiped out etc.
I'll say it again, there was a black man hunted down by three cousin f***ers and the defense attorney doesn't want black people near the courthouse, and there is one black juror on the jury.

Republicans haven't had the majority to pass anything they wanted. There's a reason they're restricting voting of predominately black people, it's because dems would, hopefully, expand the social safety net for the disenfranchised, which, because of the historical system, has disproportionally affected black people. Just because things have gotten better, and they have, doesn't mean the decades and century of treating black people as 3/5ths of a person are still not felt in today's system.

no serious Republican running for office is going to try to do things that are literally only there to hold black people back

Yes, they would. Look no further than the restriction of voting.
 

Kerosene31

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That's not true, there are people who want to keep black people down but man this kind of talk like it's the entire system against them needs to stop. Black people succeed all around us, just because every black person isn't successful doesn't mean that the system is designed to hold them back. Black people who were born here had a different start than most other groups there is no denying that and yes that means they started off behind when it comes to white people, there were things like slavery and other laws later that have since been repealed that did hold black people back but those laws are no longer a thing and no serious Republican running for office is going to try to do things that are literally only there to hold black people back.

When it comes to things like restricting polling stations in Georgia they do that because Black people tend to vote mostly for Democrats, it's about stopping Dems from winning not holding black people down. We have had years where Republicans controlled The House, Senate and White house and people of color weren't targets, they weren't wiped out etc.

Police even stop them at 1.5 to 2x other drivers just to remind them how equal they really are! :txbrolleyes:
 

JinCA

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Police even stop them at 1.5 to 2x other drivers just to remind them how equal they really are! :txbrolleyes:
See this kind of bad faith response is why nobody wants to discuss this honestly, did I say things were 100% even? nope but again individuals who participate in racist behavior is not the system, there are no laws saying police need to stop black people more.
 

JinCA

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I'll say it again, there was a black man hunted down by three cousin f***ers and the defense attorney doesn't want black people near the courthouse, and there is one black juror on the jury.

Republicans haven't had the majority to pass anything they wanted. There's a reason they're restricting voting of predominately black people, it's because dems would, hopefully, expand the social safety net for the disenfranchised, which, because of the historical system, has disproportionally affected black people. Just because things have gotten better, and they have, doesn't mean the decades and century of treating black people as 3/5ths of a person are still not felt in today's system.

no serious Republican running for office is going to try to do things that are literally only there to hold black people back

Yes, they would. Look no further than the restriction of voting.
So your example speaks for the ENTIRE system? I already talked about voting restriction because I knew that would be a reply, the idea behind restriction of voting is to try to stop people voting for Democrats not just to stop black people. If those states had large areas where white people voted mostly democratic you'd likely see the same thing. When it comes to picture ID's etc I don't think it should be required because voting is a right but also how hard is it to get an ID? how many people really can't get an ID? I can see someone who's elderly and never had one before having a hard time but seriously even in GA If you can't afford an ID they'll give you one for free.


GEORGIA'S VOTER IDENTIFICATION CARD​

If you do not have one of the six acceptable forms of photo ID, the State of Georgia offers a free ID Card. An ID card can be issued at any county registrar's office or Department of Driver Services Office free of charge.

To receive a voter identification card, the voter must provide:

  • A photo identity document or approved non-photo identity document that includes full legal name and date of birth
  • Documentation showing the voter's date of birth
  • Evidence that the applicant is a registered voter
  • Documentation showing the applicant's name and residential addres
 

ZombiesRUCrazy

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So your example speaks for the ENTIRE system? I already talked about voting restriction because I knew that would be a reply, the idea behind restriction of voting is to try to stop people voting for Democrats not just to stop black people. If those states had large areas where white people voted mostly democratic you'd likely see the same thing. When it comes to picture ID's etc I don't think it should be required because voting is a right but also how hard is it to get an ID? how many people really can't get an ID? I can see someone who's elderly and never had one before having a hard time but seriously even in GA If you can't afford an ID they'll give you one for free.

This is nearly 10 years old, but this is the issue with voting ID requirements and is probably a lot worse today:

https://www.brennancenter.org/our-work/research-reports/challenge-obtaining-voter-identification

  • Nearly 500,000 eligible voters do not have access to a vehicle and live more than 10 miles from the nearest state ID-issuing office open more than two days a week. Many of them live in rural areas with dwindling public transportation options.
  • More than 10 million eligible voters live more than 10 miles from their nearest state ID-issuing office open more than two days a week.
  • 1.2 million eligible black voters and 500,000 eligible Hispanic voters live more than 10 miles from their nearest ID-issuing office open more than two days a week. People of color are more likely to be disenfranchised by these laws since they are less likely to have photo ID than the general population.
  • Many ID-issuing offices maintain limited business hours. For example, the office in Sauk City, Wisconsin is open only on the fifth Wednesday of any month. But only four months in 2012 — February, May, August, and October — have five Wednesdays. In other states — Alabama, Georgia, Mississippi, and Texas — many part-time ID-issuing offices are in the rural regions with the highest concentrations of people of color and people in poverty.

The issue isn't requiring IDs. The issue is that republicans will go out of their way to make it hard on people, specifically minorities/poor people, to obtain such IDs.
 

Kerosene31

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See this kind of bad faith response is why nobody wants to discuss this honestly, did I say things were 100% even? nope but again individuals who participate in racist behavior is not the system, there are no laws saying police need to stop black people more.
It isn't a talking point, it is a statistical fact.

I used to agree with you actually. Then I started looking and listening a lot more. It isn't easy to see, and it is very hard to accept, but it is there. It is everywhere.

It mixes with income inequality which also hits minorities a lot harder. It starts with people in poverty getting terrible educations, and throw in minorities being a lot more likely to be pulled over, and then arrested for some minor offence, then getting a stiffer penalty than white people.

These are all facts, and they are all throughout the country. It isn't like it is just some anomaly here or there.

Throw in the fact that weed is still illegal all over the country combined with a whole for profit prison system, and it all works against everyone, but some even more.

Throw on top all the day to day nonsense they deal with. My black neighbors get the cops called on them for things like not cutting their grass fast enough, having a car that's too loud, etc. These are all things my white neighbors do even more, but only one group gets the police sent to their house on a regular basis.
 

JinCA

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This is nearly 10 years old, but this is the issue with voting ID requirements and is probably a lot worse today:

https://www.brennancenter.org/our-work/research-reports/challenge-obtaining-voter-identification



The issue isn't requiring IDs. The issue is that republicans will go out of their way to make it hard on people, specifically minorities/poor people, to obtain such IDs.
So in 10 years they can't make it to a place to get an ID? Democrats just won both senate seats in GA and the state went for Biden over Trump, it's also a state where a lot of people who are leaving CA are moving to, maybe next time they can win some state seats and do something about the way elections are handled but I have a hard time believing that people can't make it to a place to get a free ID in a year if they want to do it. It's not fair that they have to don't get me wrong but unless they actively participate and try to change it nothing will be done. The state and national party need to be (and probably are) organizing rides for people who need them and get them registered. People need to participate if they want things to change, if some a******s put up roadblocks because they want to keep the other party from winning that party needs to help people get around those roadblocks.
 

Plainview

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So in 10 years they can't make it to a place to get an ID? Democrats just won both senate seats in GA and the state went for Biden over Trump, it's also a state where a lot of people who are leaving CA are moving to, maybe next time they can win some state seats and do something about the way elections are handled but I have a hard time believing that people can't make it to a place to get a free ID in a year if they want to do it. It's not fair that they have to don't get me wrong but unless they actively participate and try to change it nothing will be done. The state and national party need to be (and probably are) organizing rides for people who need them and get them registered. People need to participate if they want things to change, if some a******s put up roadblocks because they want to keep the other party from winning that party needs to help people get around those roadblocks.
And that’s what Stacy Abrams and her grassroots organization did.
 

ZombiesRUCrazy

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So in 10 years they can't make it to a place to get an ID? Democrats just won both senate seats in GA and the state went for Biden over Trump, it's also a state where a lot of people who are leaving CA are moving to, maybe next time they can win some state seats and do something about the way elections are handled but I have a hard time believing that people can't make it to a place to get a free ID in a year if they want to do it. It's not fair that they have to don't get me wrong but unless they actively participate and try to change it nothing will be done. The state and national party need to be (and probably are) organizing rides for people who need them and get them registered. People need to participate if they want things to change, if some a******s put up roadblocks because they want to keep the other party from winning that party needs to help people get around those roadblocks.
State government in GA is still fully republican I believe. Remember, after last year’s election republicans in GA have already attacked people’s voting rights. There was cases earlier this year.

Does not matter if Dems control fed government as the issue is each state controls their own states voting. That’s why they wanted to pass the new voting rights act, but jackasses like manchin and Simena wouldn’t carve out an exception to the filibuster to pass it.

the system is rigged so change does not happen.
 

JinCA

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State government in GA is still fully republican I believe. Remember, after last year’s election republicans in GA have already attacked people’s voting rights. There was cases earlier this year.

Does not matter if Dems control fed government as the issue is each state controls their own states voting. That’s why they wanted to pass the new voting rights act, but jackasses like manchin and Simena wouldn’t carve out an exception to the filibuster to pass it.

the system is rigged so change does not happen.
I said they won the both senate seats and the state went for Biden and that hopefully next time they can win some state seats and get things changed and that's how it's going to have to be done. If people in these states really want things to change they have to find a way to participate, if there aren't enough Democrats in these states they are just going to have to live with it until the Dems figure out a way to get 60 seats in the senate again or at least enough to help change the filibuster rules without help from Manchin and Sinema and the way the party is being run lately I don't think that'll happen for a long time.
 

hrudey

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See this kind of bad faith response is why nobody wants to discuss this honestly, did I say things were 100% even? nope but again individuals who participate in racist behavior is not the system, there are no laws saying police need to stop black people more.

But it occurs pretty much everywhere, so while it would be incorrect to say it is state-mandated or government imposed, it's damn near universal and should be addressed by something more than saying "you're sort of equal now, we let you have a President, stop bitching."
 

Plainview

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This was a greta speech by Brown about how dirty and deceiving the republican party is with their arguments. I only heard tim scott's speech yesterday and thought Omarova was a terrible candidate. Then I read more about it. Then I heard Brown's speech.


 

Kerosene31

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So in 10 years they can't make it to a place to get an ID? Democrats just won both senate seats in GA and the state went for Biden over Trump, it's also a state where a lot of people who are leaving CA are moving to, maybe next time they can win some state seats and do something about the way elections are handled but I have a hard time believing that people can't make it to a place to get a free ID in a year if they want to do it. It's not fair that they have to don't get me wrong but unless they actively participate and try to change it nothing will be done. The state and national party need to be (and probably are) organizing rides for people who need them and get them registered. People need to participate if they want things to change, if some a******s put up roadblocks because they want to keep the other party from winning that party needs to help people get around those roadblocks.

Dealing with any state bureaucracy is usually a half day thing or more. Just getting a driver's license renewed for me means taking a day off and camping out an hour before they are open (am I getting a PS5 or an ID?), and that was pre-covid. For people who work in hourly jobs, that means not getting paid for a day. Either way it is a total pain in the ass. I don't know how other states are, but NY the DMV jokes are real.

All for what? Completely fabricated voter fraud accusations from a sore loser painted orange. That's really the point. We're "solving" manufactured problems.

The real issue is that we have a constitutional amendment protecting our gun rights, but nothing protecting our voting rights. If we said that people buying a gun should always show ID, suddenly the right would be all against it.
 

Plainview

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Dealing with any state bureaucracy is usually a half day thing or more. Just getting a driver's license renewed for me means taking a day off and camping out an hour before they are open (am I getting a PS5 or an ID?), and that was pre-covid. For people who work in hourly jobs, that means not getting paid for a day. Either way it is a total pain in the ass. I don't know how other states are, but NY the DMV jokes are real.

All for what? Completely fabricated voter fraud accusations from a sore loser painted orange. That's really the point. We're "solving" manufactured problems.

The real issue is that we have a constitutional amendment protecting our gun rights, but nothing protecting our voting rights. If we said that people buying a gun should always show ID, suddenly the right would be all against it.
All state IDing and license renewal systems need to be wholly online.It's absurd this isn't the case. And yes, the DMV of NY is a disaster.
 
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Plainview

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