Official Thread Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 2

Union Game Rating

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menace-uk-

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Why do you think they keep SBMM if it’s that bad?
Because they are idiots. They already lost like 60 million players.

People will tell you it is because casuals don't get stomped, but in reality, the casual experience is the same as everybody elses. So, they do get stomped.
 
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Kerosene31

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A lot of red flags for 6v6. I haven't played it yet, but the youtubers seem to have a consistent theme (they were actually more positive about it because it was sponsored)

I think 6v6 is going to be really, really campy, err tactical.

-No dead silence as a perk, and audio is really "good". Basically it is a wallhack and dead silence is only one of those temp powerup things. No moving around the map without crouch walking to keep quiet just like 2019. Jackfrags and another guy were totally pre-aiming people like they had a hack. They heard people coming so easily.

-No bullets on the minimap. Not only does this protect campers, but it also doesn't give you a "feel" for where the action is on the map. Hard to explain but just looking at the map, you could usually tell where nobody was.

-Mounting is back and it looks like things like sprint to fire speed are slower (granted that could just be perks)

-You can only take 2 perks at first, then you "charge them up" later. So, no ghost to start for example (there's apparently a tiered approach which seems overly complex and not needed). That camper who gets a quick UAV? You've apparently got no counter.

-Throw in SBMM, and that camper is the same skill as you or better, so there's just zero chance of winning against them when they are mounted. You've got a chance against a camping noob, but a good player will have all the advantages. Of course, there's little to no SBMM in the beta most likely.

On the plus side - the maps looked way better than 2019.

I think I can try it on PS tomorrow maybe. I'm really worried about 6v6 modes though. Maybe I'm wrong but I think it is going to be camper central. The only saving thing was the maps, but I think it is going to play like MW2019.

I worry that Warzone is going to dominate the player base, and 6v6 is going to continue to slide. I was actually kind of pumped for this, but now I don't know. It feels like 6v6 is catered towards the noobs while everyone decent will be in WZ2.
 
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menace-uk-

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A lot of red flags for 6v6. I haven't played it yet, but the youtubers seem to have a consistent theme (they were actually more positive about it because it was sponsored)

I think 6v6 is going to be really, really campy, err tactical.

-No dead silence as a perk, and audio is really "good". Basically it is a wallhack and dead silence is only one of those temp powerup things. No moving around the map without crouch walking to keep quiet just like 2019. Jackfrags and another guy were totally pre-aiming people like they had a hack. They heard people coming so easily.

-No bullets on the minimap. Not only does this protect campers, but it also doesn't give you a "feel" for where the action is on the map. Hard to explain but just looking at the map, you could usually tell where nobody was.

-Mounting is back and it looks like things like sprint to fire speed are slower (granted that could just be perks)

-You can only take 2 perks at first, then you "charge them up" later. So, no ghost to start for example (there's apparently a tiered approach which seems overly complex and not needed). That camper who gets a quick UAV? You've apparently got no counter.

-Throw in SBMM, and that camper is the same skill as you or better, so there's just zero chance of winning against them when they are mounted. You've got a chance against a camping noob, but a good player will have all the advantages. Of course, there's little to no SBMM in the beta most likely.

On the plus side - the maps looked way better than 2019.

I think I can try it on PS tomorrow maybe. I'm really worried about 6v6 modes though. Maybe I'm wrong but I think it is going to be camper central. The only saving thing was the maps, but I think it is going to play like MW2019.

I worry that Warzone is going to dominate the player base, and 6v6 is going to continue to slide. I was actually kind of pumped for this, but now I don't know. It feels like 6v6 is catered towards the noobs while everyone decent will be in WZ2.
All the 6v6 I have seen has seemingly had very little camping.

No Ninja or Dead Silence is great IMO. Virtually no sound is as bad as camping only in 2019 you had both. People camped in CoD4, og MW2, BO 1, etc.

Mini map, yep. Needs changing.
 

Kerosene31

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Some loose SBMM isn't a bad thing (actually it can be good). What COD isn't that. COD puts you on a rollercoaster you can't control. For me it has been the same since MW2019 (Cold War was the only game that broke the mold a little, and oddly enough, that game has more players on Xbox than Vanguard). 3-5 games where I do well, actually a little too well. My k/d is not only positive, but closer to 2.0. I'm getting streaks and I'm clearly against lower skilled players.

Then, the switch flips. The game can't give all of us easy games all the time obviously. Suddenly it is my turn to be the scrub in some top tier lobby. Now my k/d is like .5-.7. So, my k/d averages out to 1.0 but the way it does it is horrible.

You can't break the cycle. You aren't "playing" the game, you're just along the algorithm for a ride. The only thing you can do (and streamers do this) is to tank on purpose for an hour or two and get down in the scrubs, then slowly work your way back up.

When I queue in Halo Infinite, it tries to find people roughly around my skill. I win games and lose games. I have good games and bad games. At least I'm actually playing and have some impact on the game. My stats are still more positive because I can actually impact them by getting better.
 

lowdru2k

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All the 6v6 I have seen has seemingly had very little camping.

No Ninja or Dead Silence is great IMO. Virtually no sound is as bad as camping only in 2019 you had both. People camped in CoD4, og MW2, BO 1, etc.

Mini map, yep. Needs changing.
Yep camping has been in every game.

Remember the One Man Army/tube campers in MW2 lol.
 
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MW

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And I'm out on this game. It's just not fun. I'll try Warzone 2.0 (lol) and DMZ when they drop in November. COD MP is dead to me.
 
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Kerosene31

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Camping is always a thing, but MW2019 made countering it much harder. The monster footsteps means crouch walking everywhere, or waiting for your dead silence to charge. Add in mounting and if someone knows exactly where you are coming from, it is tough to outgun them.

Crouch walking inside every building just gets old in a hurry. It just slows the game down significantly. The old games had camping, but not mounting and SBMM.
 

menace-uk-

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I just hope it hasn’t been hyped up to be like Escape From Tarkov for no reason then it turns out to be just a distraction mode for a short time not worth sticking with.
It has just be labelled as an extraction mode. So, could be anything. I don't see it being a Tarkov clone, hope it is, but doubt it.
 

lowdru2k

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It has just be labelled as an extraction mode. So, could be anything. I don't see it being a Tarkov clone, hope it is, but doubt it.
I might have worded that wrong I meant like a side mode that distracts you from the main MP for a short time just not much to it to keep you engaged for long. I remember Spec Ops co-op being like that. Tried it a few times then never went back.
 

menace-uk-

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I might have worded that wrong I meant like a side mode that distracts you from the main MP for a short time just not much to it to keep you engaged for long. I remember Spec Ops co-op being like that. Tried it a few times then never went back.
I understood what you meant, but we have no idea right now so is kind of hard to really reply to it.
 

Kerosene31

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Some random observations after playing:

-Maps are bigger than I expected. Not massive, but I wonder if they are build for modes other than 6v6.
-Other than being big, maps felt decent overall. Lots of flanks.
-Footsteps aren't so bad. Walking is fine and doesn't make much noise. Running is loud but that is expected. From what I remember from MW2019, they were much louder just walking. Maybe I am not remembering correctly.
-SBMM is definitely on. I started getting wrecked, then ended up in all scrub/dad lobbies
-The M4 seems to be awful. I switched to the AK74 and was doing a ton better.

-Camping is bad. If 2 guys or more are in a party and lock down an area, they own it. I already had the prox mine and trophy system and not sure how to counter it (maybe some later unlocks). Maps have tons of little corners to get into, objects to climb, etc. So many little cheesy "pre-aim the door" spots.

-The perk system is worse. You start with 2 basic perks and unlock more as you play (not sure if killsteak or what). Ghost is an "advanced" perk which means it is half the game before you get it. UAVs are still early streaks and a real problem. Running a launcher will be a must to stay hidden. Seriously, I have no idea why they did this.

-The minimap is a major issue. The maps are bigger, and there's simply no way to tell where the action is, so you end up creeping through every room. I see they really want sound to be more used, but you can't tell if someone is just on the other side of a wall or the other side of a map. It slows the pace down so much. The lack of ghost makes UAVs crazy powerful.

-I hated it at first, but it grew on me. You have to take it for what it is, a slower paced game.

(My PS5 headset is kind of trash so maybe the sound will be better on PC/Xbox where I have better cans)
 

menace-uk-

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Some random observations after playing:

-Maps are bigger than I expected. Not massive, but I wonder if they are build for modes other than 6v6.
-Other than being big, maps felt decent overall. Lots of flanks.
-Footsteps aren't so bad. Walking is fine and doesn't make much noise. Running is loud but that is expected. From what I remember from MW2019, they were much louder just walking. Maybe I am not remembering correctly.
-SBMM is definitely on. I started getting wrecked, then ended up in all scrub/dad lobbies
-The M4 seems to be awful. I switched to the AK74 and was doing a ton better.

-Camping is bad. If 2 guys or more are in a party and lock down an area, they own it. I already had the prox mine and trophy system and not sure how to counter it (maybe some later unlocks). Maps have tons of little corners to get into, objects to climb, etc. So many little cheesy "pre-aim the door" spots.

-The perk system is worse. You start with 2 basic perks and unlock more as you play (not sure if killsteak or what). Ghost is an "advanced" perk which means it is half the game before you get it. UAVs are still early streaks and a real problem. Running a launcher will be a must to stay hidden. Seriously, I have no idea why they did this.

-The minimap is a major issue. The maps are bigger, and there's simply no way to tell where the action is, so you end up creeping through every room. I see they really want sound to be more used, but you can't tell if someone is just on the other side of a wall or the other side of a map. It slows the pace down so much. The lack of ghost makes UAVs crazy powerful.

-I hated it at first, but it grew on me. You have to take it for what it is, a slower paced game.

(My PS5 headset is kind of trash so maybe the sound will be better on PC/Xbox where I have better cans)
The perks I believe are just time based.

Well aren't the UAVs going to counter the campers?
 

Kerosene31

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The perks I believe are just time based.

Well aren't the UAVs going to counter the campers?

The problem I found is the campers get the streaks much easier. Supposedly there's a way to get scorestreaks which might help.

I was doing ok in the game, but getting streaks is going to be tough without camping.

There's a lot of verticality on the maps and lots of different levels.

Hopefully there's a perk that shows enemy equipment.

It isn't easy to pinpoint people, it is hard to describe. It isn't just learning the maps.
 
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menace-uk-

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The problem I found is the campers get the streaks much easier. Supposedly there's a way to get scorestreaks which might help.

I was doing ok in the game, but getting streaks is going to be tough without camping.

There's a lot of verticality on the maps and lots of different levels.

Hopefully there's a perk that shows enemy equipment.

It isn't easy to pinpoint people, it is hard to describe. It isn't just learning the maps.
Yeah you get to choose if you want scoresreaks or killstreaks this time. No clue where you change it.
 

Kerosene31

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There was a map filter which was disabled, but said "large" and "small". I'm hoping these are the large maps.

My #1 complaint is there's simply too much downtime. The spawns seem good, but at the cost of having no action for long periods of time. The minimap change is just huge. Normally you spawn and can at least tell the directions of some fighting. So many times I spawn, rush the enemy spawn and see absolutely nothing the whole way around.

One map I was on comms with some randos and we're walking around for 2 minutes at the start of the map before we even find the enemy. That was unusually long, but that's how these maps play. It is painfully slow paced at times. A lot of my k-d were 8-6 or 7-9 where games hit the time limit.

If you run into a group of 3+ guys on comms who want to camp and hold down an area, it is a rough game. Most people were running around for now, but how about when stats start to count?

The UAV is still a 3 streak, but is now crazy powerful early on. Nobody will have ghost unlocked. Sadly, the play is pretty much camp to get to a 3 streak, then attack once it is up.

The game just punishes rushing. The M4 seemed terrible, so I grabbed an AK74 (which is also classified as an AR for some reason but plays like an SMG) and was being aggressive.

I think next week is crossplay open beta. It is weird, I didn't totally hate it, but wow is it slow paced for a COD game. It plays nothing like the old MW2.
 

menace-uk-

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If you run into a group of 3+ guys on comms who want to camp and hold down an area, it is a rough game. Most people were running around for now, but how about when stats start to count?
This is true no matter the game. Even on the old CoD games this was true.

When do stats matter? lol. You mean when the game releases and gamers think a high K/D ratio makes them look like they have a 12" dick?

The cross play starts with the Xbox early access which I believe is on Thursday.
 

Kerosene31

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It is really a pacing issue more than anything. Camping and squads are always an issue for sure. By default, this game is very slow and tactical, and if people are going to camp it, it grinds to a boring halt.

It is hard to describe, but I spent so much time simply walking slowly through areas that turned out to be empty. The campers to pack up and move so it is so slow to simply find them sometimes.

I mean, I'm not some crazy run and gun player. I play pretty slow by default, and this game plays too slow for me. Just a ton of ADS creeping around corners, hoping to see a pixel of the enemy first. Plus, there are so many little places to hide on the map, so even knowing what room someone is in isn't enough. They could be prone, crouched behind cover, climbing up something. You just have to clear each and every corner of the map anytime you dare to move. With open doors, you can hide behind the door and basically be impossible to kill.

I'm going to try it on PC next week. My hype is shifting to Warzone 2 and I'm not big on that game. Sounds like they are going back to a more traditional BR game and that actually sounds more fun than this.
 

Kvally

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It is really a pacing issue more than anything. Camping and squads are always an issue for sure. By default, this game is very slow and tactical, and if people are going to camp it, it grinds to a boring halt.

It is hard to describe, but I spent so much time simply walking slowly through areas that turned out to be empty. The campers to pack up and move so it is so slow to simply find them sometimes.

I mean, I'm not some crazy run and gun player. I play pretty slow by default, and this game plays too slow for me. Just a ton of ADS creeping around corners, hoping to see a pixel of the enemy first. Plus, there are so many little places to hide on the map, so even knowing what room someone is in isn't enough. They could be prone, crouched behind cover, climbing up something. You just have to clear each and every corner of the map anytime you dare to move. With open doors, you can hide behind the door and basically be impossible to kill.

I'm going to try it on PC next week. My hype is shifting to Warzone 2 and I'm not big on that game. Sounds like they are going back to a more traditional BR game and that actually sounds more fun than this.
Not sure why you keep bring up camping as a negative. That is no different than bringing up run and gun as a negative. Everyone plays at their pace. I camp and it's my preferred play style. People run and gun, and that is their preferred playstyle. Some want to play slow (you) and some want to play fast.

I have camped behind an open door. But I also don't run past open doors, because I assume they could have someone behind them. I have either toss a device (camera, shock, grenade, etc.) to make sure there isn't someone there.
 

menace-uk-

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Not sure why you keep bring up camping as a negative. That is no different than bringing up run and gun as a negative. Everyone plays at their pace. I camp and it's my preferred play style. People run and gun, and that is their preferred playstyle. Some want to play slow (you) and some want to play fast.

I have camped behind an open door. But I also don't run past open doors, because I assume they could have someone behind them. I have either toss a device (camera, shock, grenade, etc.) to make sure there isn't someone there.
I think the issue is the game favours campers. The more a game does that the more of an issue it becomes because other styles of play are less viable.
 
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Kvally

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I think the issue is the game favours campers. The more a game does that the more of an issue it becomes because other styles of play are less viable.
Fair enough. I played a few rounds this weekend and I enjoyed it. I didn't get to play the maps enough to get a feel for them yet, but they are indeed bigger. And whether it was intentional or not, it seemed more camping friendly for me.