Falcon And The Winter Soldier

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karmakid said:
But it’s based on actual events, and stuff they did to serviceman and public

en.m.wikipedia.org

Tuskegee Syphilis Study - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org en.m.wikipedia.org

The comics even touched on said issues.

en.m.wikipedia.org

Isaiah Bradley - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org en.m.wikipedia.org

If the viewer can’t distinguish fact from history then their was some failure somewhere.... if they find sakovia on the globe or red skull’s family line then we’re part of the MCU, just what flat earth universe are we in.

But seriously, watch this for a more in depth and detailed info on what and why they touched on said subjects

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Where did I say the Tuskegee Syphilis Study never happened historically?

Isaiah Bradley is a comic book character. There's no such thing as a "super soldier," yet the writing suggests what happened to Bradley is worse than what historically occurred, thereby trivializing what actually historically occurred. The episode barely makes a mention of the historical injustices and instead focuses on Bradley's treatment.

Suggesting that simply because the comic book did the same thing does not somehow make it non-trivializing.

And yes, there are defects in education, where students are not taught about the injustices that many people faced. These defects are widely known, which makes this conflating of history and fiction even worse. What Marvel should have done was to include a disclaimer or a PSA at the beginning and end of the episode, educating viewers on history, but that still wouldn't make it non-trivializing.
 
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aceattorney said:
Where did I say the Tuskegee Syphilis Study never happened historically?

Isaiah Bradley is a comic book character. There's no such thing as a "super soldier," yet the writing suggests what happened to Bradley is worse than what historically occurred, thereby trivializing what actually historically occurred. The episode barely makes a mention of the historical injustices and instead focuses on Bradley's treatment.

Suggesting that simply because the comic book did the same thing does not somehow make it non-trivializing.

And yes, there are defects in education, where students are not taught about the injustices that many people faced. These defects are widely known, which makes this conflating of history and fiction even worse. What Marvel should have done was to include a disclaimer or a PSA at the beginning and end of the episode, educating viewers on history, but that still wouldn't make it non-trivializing.
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Sorry, didn’t mean to come across as if you said that, just that what was done irl is/was basis for the events that Isaiah went through.

I don’t believe they wanted to touch on American history but more a political thing on how the government creates things but when it makes them look bad or total control and they just wanna burry it to be forgotten...with both John Walker and Isaiah Bradley.

Correct me if I’m wrong, but wasn’t the Romulans in Star Trek based on the Romans? Heck weren’t most Star Trek episodes allegories for their times/environment?
 
menace-uk- said:
But no self respecting *enter race here* would watch that.

That whole line in regards to accepting the mantle of Cap Merica is dumb as f***.
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It’s more like angles/pov and it being a symbol/subject to many time/generations, no? Cap and Sam (Tony’s dad) looked at it as symbol of hope, maybe? The flagsmashers as something that turned its back on them and to Bradley a life of pain an torture that never aided him and refuses to acknowledge his existence.
 
karmakid said:
It’s more like angles/pov and it being a symbol/subject to many time/generations, no? Cap and Sam (Tony’s dad) looked at it as symbol of hope, maybe? The flagsmashers as something that turned its back on them and to Bradley a life of pain an torture that never aided him and refuses to acknowledge his existence.
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No, it is just stupid. Sits there bitching about how things haven't changed but doesn't want a black man in a position that can create positive change. All whike hiding away and doing nothing to help things change.

Bra-f***ing-vo.

It is funny, cause race had no part in Sam's reluctence to to take on the Cap Merica mantle. So, why the hell is this stuff even in here? They said it, made us cringe at its stupidity, and then Sam's just ignores all that and goes Cap Merica training. It is hilarious.
 
menace-uk- said:
No, it is just stupid. Sits there b****ing about how things haven't changed but doesn't want a black man in a position that can create positive change. All whike hiding away and doing nothing to help things change.

Bra-f***ing-vo.

It is funny, cause race had no part in Sam's reluctence to to take on the Cap Merica mantle. So, why the hell is this stuff even in here? They said it, made us cringe at its stupidity, and then Sam's just ignores all that and goes Cap Merica training. It is hilarious.
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Isn’t that the point though, that Sam looked beyond that?

Didn’t Bradley mentioned that if he tried coming out of the shadows that they’d take him down, or something like that?

i need to watch it again, usually I watch this with my niece but she wants to catch up on all the movies before getting into this, especially Loki lol. She started getting into comics with Spider-Man into the spiderverse, then Spider-Man homecoming...I’ve got her most of the spidergwen comics. Oh and dog man lol

Tangent and probably not relevant, but I’m hella sleepy and gotta be at work in seven hours lol just caught up on invincible, episodes 3-5...I’m using this as a distraction from watching 6 lol good stuff
 
karmakid said:
Isn’t that the point though, that Sam looked beyond that?

Didn’t Bradley mentioned that if he tried coming out of the shadows that they’d take him down, or something like that?

i need to watch it again, usually I watch this with my niece but she wants to catch up on all the movies before getting into this, especially Loki lol. She started getting into comics with Spider-Man into the spiderverse, then Spider-Man homecoming...I’ve got her most of the spidergwen comics. Oh and dog man lol

Tangent and probably not relevant, but I’m hella sleepy and gotta be at work in seven hours lol just caught up on invincible, episodes 3-5...I’m using this as a distraction from watching 6 lol good stuff
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No, that's not the point. The point was to hammer down the fact that black heroes were treated horrifically. Sam taking up the shield training spits in the face of Bradley. The only way to remedy this is for Sam to repaint the shield (get rid of the stars and stripes), and not call himself Captain America (just stick with Falcon).
 
aceattorney said:
No, that's not the point. The point was to hammer down the fact that black heroes were treated horrifically. Sam taking up the shield training spits in the face of Bradley. The only way to remedy this is for Sam to repaint the shield (get rid of the stars and stripes), and not call himself Captain America (just stick with Falcon).
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Hmmm, I dono, i felt like Sam is aware of that now, especially after meeting up with Bradley, but still take it. And they hint that Torres may take up the Falcon moniker. That brief glimpse at the outfit looked like it’s may be more monochromatic and may still include the Stars and Stripes...I know images of his new action figure have leaked but I’ve yet to see it and would rather wait till this Friday

But is it really the captain America name or the government at blame?

his nephews seemed ok with it, no?
 
karmakid said:
Hmmm, I dono, i felt like Sam is aware of that now, especially after meeting up with Bradley, but still take it. And they hint that Torres may take up the Falcon moniker. That brief glimpse at the outfit looked like it’s may be more monochromatic and may still include the Stars and Stripes...I know images of his new action figure have leaked but I’ve yet to see it and would rather wait till this Friday

But is it really the captain America name or the government at blame?

his nephews seemed ok with it, no?
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I guess you simply don't see it the way I do, which is fine. It's just a comic book show, after all.
 
Caught up on the rest of the episodes. I’ve enjoyed it has been entertaining watching these characters together in this. Plus some cool action. Is today’s episode the finale? Will watch it later tonight.
 
aceattorney said:
Good finale that tidies up everything cleanly. I absolutely loved seeing Falcon as Cap, and all of his tech being a part of his fights was super awesome to see. Kind of interesting to see how they made Bradley come around a little though...still processing how that sits with me considering my opinions about the treatment of this character before this episode.

The supersoldier terrorists were completely forgettable, and I think it's a little annoying (and perhaps this is only in my mind) that they are sort of portrayed as BLM/Antifa.

Ultimately I did enjoy Falcon and Bucky's chemistry, as well as the introduction of US Agent.
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Dang it lol
 
The biggest reason Bucky should have been the new Captain America is simple.
Falcon doesn't have any super human strength like Steve Rogers and thus the shield would be useless to him as an offensive weapon because he wouldn't be able to throw it hard enough, much less catch it when it came back without breaking his hand/arm.
Bucky has the bionic arm and has already shown he's more than capable of chuckin that shield around. Not to mention he has a similar hand to hand fighting style as Steve.
Common sense be damned though when Disney's all about pandering to SJWs and BLM.
 
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Digital Joker said:
The biggest reason Bucky should have been the new Captain America is simple.
Falcon doesn't have any super human strength like Steve Rogers and thus the shield would be useless to him as an offensive weapon because he wouldn't be able to throw it hard enough, much less catch it when it came back without breaking his hard/arm.
Bucky has the bionic arm and has already shown he's more than capable of chuckin that shield around. Not to mention he has a similar hand to hand fighting style as Steve.
Common sense be damned though when Disney's all about pandering to SJWs and BLM.
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Nah, if that were the case then the mantle would have stayed with Walker. He had the strength and speed of to deal with the shield like Rogers or Buck but wasn’t a juiced up super soldier.



Battlestar seemed to keep up too.

Bucky and Rogers both agreed to give it to Sam before he even went back to return the power stones.

My only gripe about the new cap is his head wear, his whole suit is probably vibranium but the top of his scalp is totally exposed, like why? Maybe if it it covered his whole head and maybe a slit atop so he could have like a faux/mohawk could work, like captain marvels brief moment

but to circle back, even Walker knew he wasn’t meant to be captain america, he had so much weight upon he he wasn’t mentally ready to carry such a title. He was stoked be in uniform again just not as cap
 
karmakid said:
Nah, if that were the case then the mantle would have stayed with Walker. He had the strength and speed of to deal with the shield like Rogers or Buck but wasn’t a juiced up super soldier.



Battlestar seemed to keep up too.

Bucky and Rogers both agreed to give it to Sam before he even went back to return the power stones.

My only gripe about the new cap is his head wear, his whole suit is probably vibranium but the top of his scalp is totally exposed, like why? Maybe if it it covered his whole head and maybe a slit atop so he could have like a faux/mohawk could work, like captain marvels brief moment

but to circle back, even Walker knew he wasn’t meant to be captain america, he had so much weight upon he he wasn’t mentally ready to carry such a title. He was stoked be in uniform again just not as cap
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I haven't watched the series yet so I don't know anything about US Agent guy.
Cept he looks like a dork with the mask on.
 
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I wasn't a huge fan of the last couple episodes, a lot of poorly written fabricated drama for my tastes. Similar to Wandavision, I feel like the series left us in the exact same position the main characters were in before the series started. No real stakes or development happened for the main characters, just a set of inconsequential events that left them exactly where they were at the end of the last movie.
 
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u2popmofo said:
I wasn't a huge fan of the last couple episodes, a lot of poorly written fabricated drama for my tastes. Similar to Wandavision, I feel like the series left us in the exact same position the main characters were in before the series started. No real stakes or development happened for the main characters, just a set of inconsequential events that left them exactly where they were at the end of the last movie.
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Finally got around to watching the final episode. I’m kinda glad they did something different and went another direction with Cap. Looking forward to seeing Sam in upcoming films.
 
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