GPU Prices and Mining, what to do and how to even compete.

Dehnus

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With the latest news of a German Webshop refusing to stock up on GPU's (simply as they can't get them anymore, their suppliers/importers just cancel their order with them and deliver them to miners directly at a rate that is so staggering they can't even compete). What is there to do for PC gamers in need/want for a new GPU.

Clearly mining only cards are not the answer, as the miners keep it in mind that selling a (ab)used mining card to begging gamers is part of your R.O.I. ; selling a mining only card will not garner that same price, plain and simple. Prices are through the roof on any GPU capable of mining and delivery time is high.

What would be your solution to this problem, preferably to keep well meaning miners happy (not those that sell abused cards, but want to work with gamers on this problem so both sides can have a part of the cake)? Or just say "f*** em! One card per buyer!". As right now the tension between gaming gadget lovers and mining gadget lovers is extremely high on some tech forums. With some of the mining ones admitting they bought 90 cards or more! for their new mining farm, from some "source"; and just trolling the ones seeking one to play a game.

http://www.tomshardware.com/news/ethereum-mining-german-graphics-shortage,34959.html (the article on Tom's hardware stating the issue this shop has with miners buying up all GPUs).
 

Dehnus

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What's "mining" in this context?
Crypto currency, can be Ethereum, but there are others. It is quite broad and new coins appear almost daily. Some of the coins serve public interest, like providing compute for research or medical benefits to humanity. Most of them however just burn electricity for cash.
 
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CFogle21

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Crypto currency, can be Ethereum, but there are others. It is quite broad and new coins appear almost daily. Some of the coins server public interest, like providing compute for research or medical benefits to humanity. Most of them however just burn electricity for cash.
I've tried to look up what all this cryptocurrency stuff is and just what the hell people do with it. The whole thing just goes right over my head.
 

Dehnus

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I've tried to look up what all this cryptocurrency stuff is and just what the hell people do with it. The whole thing just goes right over my head.
it's quite simple really, basically it is just a hash code that can relay all transfers done. Problem is more that there is no representation outside of the money people put in when they buy currency and then transfer it to one of these "addresses.".

Mining helps transferring and finding new possible hashes, only issue is, it mostly is a waste of electricity. There are a few currencies that actually do something with this processing, like GridCoin, but most currencies just are burning electricity for the sake of "transfers and finding new possible hashes".

Imagine there are render farms out there with more than 500 of these GPU's just mining away. They don't do anything but that. Just .. finding hashes.... nothing else.
 

Dehnus

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I thought this stuff was supposed to start dying down, doesn't like that's the case.
Well the issue is, they buy it in such quantity that nobody else can. Thus they control the market. NOrmally you'd take a loss on the card if you sold it second hand, but now the second hand price is almost the same as the "suggested retail price" of a card, as the other prices are heavily inflated if you even can get one.

This is why Mining only cards won't work. They can't sell them after they (ab)used them for 3 months 24/7 70% till 100% load. So the second hand price of those is nothing. Even if a mining only card is half the price of a normal GPU board, the normal GPU board you'll get a 80% return of investment on right now. So even if the currency goes down, as long as it gives you more than it costs in electricity bills, and you can get an 80% ROI they will keep buying them all up.

Mind you not all miners are like that, some mining farms want a solution to this issue as well, but it's more the shady ones that only started when Ethereum skyrocketted that now control the whole market. Some of the former mentioned would rather have dedicated mining cards, that they won't sell on.
 

Nervusbreakdown

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I was trying to get the rx 580 but fuk that. the price on some doubled or tripled the price.
the people who buy them in bulk are killing the gamers.

well there goes that whole talk you can build a pc around that price of a xbox one x
 

Videodrome

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I thought this stuff was supposed to start dying down, doesn't like that's the case.
Same, I didn't think this was viable anymore no matter how powerful your machine. I thought constraints on issuing Bitcoin we're to tight.

Or maybe they think other new crypto currency are Worthing mining.

I kind of wonder if most of it is just a weird obsession at this point.
 

hrudey

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Same, I didn't think this was viable anymore no matter how powerful your machine. I thought constraints on issuing Bitcoin we're to tight.

Or maybe they think other new crypto currency are Worthing mining.

I kind of wonder if most of it is just a weird obsession at this point.
Never underestimate how much work people will do to "get money without working."
 

Dehnus

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I was trying to get the rx 580 but fuk that. the price on some doubled or tripled the price.
the people who buy them in bulk are killing the gamers.

well there goes that whole talk you can build a pc around that price of a xbox one x
Yup, the prices are ludicrous right now. BUt also due to scarcity. You wont'be able to find a Card at the moment, as the "bad" miners are intercepting shipments. They are right inbetween the resellers and the producers and thus able to basically buy everything up. "Good" mining farms have indicated this problem from the start, and as long as we are willing to buy second hand, and pay near the retail price for second hand, there is no risk in buying in bulk. As after all they don't lose that much after they are done with it.

PC gamers just need to unionize and decide to "Not pay more than 1/3rd, for second hand gear!". As otherwise the reward will always outweigh the risk.

I am trying to get a 1070 for work, to replace my SLI setup of two GTX 660s. But I decided to wait for volta, and ride out the wave. It simply isn't worth the extra cash you have to spend to get a card and still have to wait up to 2 months before you get it.
 

Dehnus

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https://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/news/3014813/cryptocurrency-miners-are-hiring-boeing-747s-to-deliver-gpus

In case you wonder how they intercept deliveries and if it'll let up soon :p.

They are also eying up VEGA already, face it, if you want a higher mid range GPU for your Gaming rig, you're screwed for a while. :p

And naive AMD wants to add more "volume" to their production so "everybody can get one" ;).

The miners are chartering Jumbo Jets! I doubt that producing more will change anything, they'll just buy more :p.


"Oh you produced 200 more? SURE I WILL BUY THEM!"
 
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The Living Tribunal

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The spaces between realities!
Picked up an AORUS 1080TI the other night on a whim. Don't really need it but I'm a hardware nut. Put it in my 2nd rig that is still sporting a Z87 i7-4790K @ 4.5ghz. Replaced the zotac 980ti that was in it.

The card is f***ing massive!
 

Dehnus

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Picked up an AORUS 1080TI the other night on a whim. Don't really need it but I'm a hardware nut. Put it in my 2nd rig that is still sporting a Z87 i7-4790K @ 4.5ghz. Replaced the zotac 980ti that was in it.

The card is f***ing massive!
Yup, seems like you better spill out the extra cash for a 1080 or 1080TI than a 1070. Mining has inflated those prices that the 1080 is not that expensive in comparison. Unless you want to take the risk, and wait a few weeks till months for your order, and risk ending up not getting it as a miner intercepted the supply, offered a 20% mark up and left with the whole batch.

Even the price of the 1080 is starting to bloat now.

Edit:
Sigh, and now it is pretty certain VEGA will be fantastic for miners.
Might as well go for a 1080 then or Volta if it launches early :(. VEGA will simply be priced out of the market.
 
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Nervusbreakdown

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It looks like im stuck getting the 1050 TI thanks to these people that drove the market to the sky.

Is there any way to control this mess?
 

Dehnus

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480 is almost the same as the 580....
Both are sold out and have inflated prices. :(

But he has a point in that Consoles suddenly became a big bang for your buck. It is impossible to build a PS4 Pro at 399 or a Xbox One X at 499 with PC parts right now. The GPU alone simply won't be able to keep up if you get the ones in that price range.