Official Thread Gran Turismo 7

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consolewarz said:
You're talking about photomode car polycounts. You don't need even 500k poly cars for GT7/PS4 gameplay, more like 200-300k. Driveclub's cars are 250k during actual gameplay.

GT's premium cars are not behind for actual GT7 gameplay, they're ahead.

GT6 has ~445 premium cars, those should be ready to go in GT7 at next gen quality. Any other cars they can get up to that level is great.

If you actually think Forza 4 or 5's cars are a million polygons during real gameplay... :smash:
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When did you play GT7?
 
menace-uk- said:
How is it difficult to guess ? You can see the obvious difference between Autovista and actual races, right ? The actual gameplay polys will be fairly close and usually the overall polys include interiors too. To be perfectly honest this whole discussion is pointless since they are always very close.
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Well it just is over a certain point, maybe not ps2 era etc, but I can't look at a car and say they are X amount of polys. If you can tell me why forza 4 is 200k and GT5 is 500k, but then driveclub is 250k??? In my mind driveclub looks much, much better than forza 4 and GT5.
 
naty said:
I thought you said that each car was 1 million polygons and since there's 16 cars racing...?
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The article i quoted said 1 million for Forza4, and 500k for GT5 so...

Going by generational leaps it doesn't seem so impossible, GT4 on ps2 had 5-6k polygons on average per car, then the next generation(ps3) has over 50-100x more than than that. So the next generation(current) forza5 is just only 2-3x more than the previous generation? Diminishing returns I suppose.
 
de3d1 said:
The article i quoted said 1 million for Forza4, and 500k for GT5 so...

Going by generational leaps it doesn't seem so impossible, GT4 on ps2 had 5-6k polygons on average per car, then the next generation(ps3) has over 50-100x more than than that. So the next generation(current) forza5 is just only 2-3x more than the previous generation? Diminishing returns I suppose.
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It's autovista mode, not gameplay.

http://www.sub5zero.com/e3-expo-2011-forza-motorsport-4-raises-console-racing-sim-stakes-video/

Another number that has our attention is one million. That’s the number of polygons Turn 10 is claiming each car model in Forza 4 will have, and it’s more than double the count of the rides in Forza 3 (400,000 per car). That translates to way, way more detail, details that will be easy to ogle in the new Autovista (or showroom) mode.
 
naty said:
It's autovista mode, not gameplay.

http://www.sub5zero.com/e3-expo-2011-forza-motorsport-4-raises-console-racing-sim-stakes-video/

Another number that has our attention is one million. That’s the number of polygons Turn 10 is claiming each car model in Forza 4 will have, and it’s more than double the count of the rides in Forza 3 (400,000 per car). That translates to way, way more detail, details that will be easy to ogle in the new Autovista (or showroom) mode.
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where does it say it isn't gameplay specifically?

Not that I'm agreeing either way, and this point I'm just curious.

Sounds like in that quote they are referring the the fact you can see more details up close in Autovista. Obviously gameplay gets a downgrade, but how much?
I'm curious as to why menace mention earlier forza 4 was only 250k polys and this says Forza 3 is 400k here, which by and large forza 4's models look way better. Its all confusing.
 
de3d1 said:
where does it say it isn't gameplay specifically?

Not that I'm agreeing either way, and this point I'm just curious.

Sounds like in that quote they are referring the the fact you can see more details up close in Autovista. Obviously gameplay gets a downgrade, but how much?
I'm curious as to why menace mention earlier forza 4 was only 250k polys and this says Forza 3 is 400k here, which by and large forza 4's models look way better. Its all confusing.
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If you play forza 5, you can notice that the car in autovista (showroom) mode looks better than the one in gameplay. That should be telling enough. Besides, it's not realistic to think that each car will be 1 million polygons in gameplay when Marius from Ryse only has 85k polygons. Like I said, you can't expect that the X1 will be pushing 16 million polygons (or close to it) on just the cars alone.

http://www.dualshockers.com/2014/03...147456-x-147456-textures-before-optimization/
 
naty said:
If you play forza 5, you can notice that the car in autovista (showroom) mode looks better than the one in gameplay. That should be telling enough. Besides, it's not realistic to think that each car will be 1 million polygons in gameplay when Marius from Ryse only has 85k polygons. Like I said, you can't expect that the X1 will be pushing 16 million polygons (or close to it) on just the cars alone.

http://www.dualshockers.com/2014/03...147456-x-147456-textures-before-optimization/
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Idk.





Interesting him saying 1 million polygons and "driving something real" or forza 5 above, and the number in autovista is also 1million for forza 4 when you consider:

"So in Autovista in Forza Motorsport 4 there were 26 cars, and those cars, in many ways, were prototypes for what we wanted cars to look like on next gen hardware. The thing we learned in doing that experiment was that we didn't think the next generation was about poly count and texture resolution. It was gonna be about light and atmosphere and imperfections so we actually got to ship a prototype - which was kind of cool.

"Now obviously we didn't tell people that - that's not how we framed it - but I thought that was a cool experience. Autovista was a very cool experience and that carried forwards in Forza 5
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http://www.computerandvideogames.com/433154/forza-4-autovista-cars-were-forza-5-prototypes/

Actually it all makes more sense after reading all that.
 
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naty said:
Ah, they never clarified anything. So it's all up in the air right now.
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Nah, but it's definitely insightful.
Not to mention GT5 is at 500k polygons per premium car and during racing there were more than 16 cars onscreen at once. So the X1 is MUCH more powerful than the ps3/360 so 2x more polygons onscreen is not a mindblowing increase considering, not at all. So yeah, what they say makes even more sense considering that.
 
de3d1 said:
Well it just is over a certain point, maybe not ps2 era etc, but I can't look at a car and say they are X amount of polys. If you can tell me why forza 4 is 200k and GT5 is 500k, but then driveclub is 250k??? In my mind driveclub looks much, much better than forza 4 and GT5.
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You issue is comparing GT5 photomode models(500k) to F4 gameplay. Photomode(500k) should only be compared to Forza Autovista(1 million) which also has far higher poly models. The game play for GT5 and Forza 4 is going to be far lower. That 200K that I stated before was simply an example. Forza 4 models are around 140 - 170k. GT5 will be very similar. Obviously with the advent of new hardware comes more polys like we see in drive club with 250k.

Telling the difference between gameplay for the average person will be tough because in reality they are very similar, and the polys are split between interior and exterior. Similarly, the car models between GT5 photomode and Autovista may look very similar cause Autovista also has to spread those polys to everything from exterior, to interior, to engine..etc.

Worry about this poly difference is like worrying that an apply is slightly bigger than another. In the end it does not really matter.
 
menace-uk- said:
Telling the difference between gameplay for the average person will be tough because in reality they are very similar, and the polys are split between interior and exterior. Similarly, the car models between GT5 photomode and Autovista may look very similar cause Autovista also has to spread those polys to everything from exterior, to interior, to engine..etc.

Worry about this poly difference is like worrying that an apply is slightly bigger than another. In the end it does not really matter.
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True but doesn't photomode and autovista look better in part because of those added polygons?
 
de3d1 said:
True but doesn't photomode and autovista look better in part because of those added polygons?
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Yes, but you also have to keep in in mind that Photmode and Autovista have all the power to render just one car. That means that each model can have a lot more fine detail and the lighting can also be improved considerably. The Latter 2 are going to big variables in why driveclub looks better than F4 or GT5. There is simply a lot more to how a car looks than just polys.
 
I still don't understand why Gran Turismo 6 wasn't a PS4 launch game lol. Let's hope that GT7 doesn't feel rushed. I want a GT game that feels as good as the PS2 games did.
 
TDbank24 said:
I still don't understand why Gran Turismo 6 wasn't a PS4 launch game lol. Let's hope that GT7 doesn't feel rushed. I want a GT game that feels as good as the PS2 games did.
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I'm interested to see what they do as well. PD has a lot of competition now. They need to pick up their game a little bit.

I think their whole menu system and UI and game structure has to change and be more inviting and less clinical. I haven't played 6. So maybe some of that has changed.

Also they need more gameplay advances. Mainly damage. Perhaps weather. Adaptive AI?
 
TDbank24 said:
I still don't understand why Gran Turismo 6 wasn't a PS4 launch game lol. Let's hope that GT7 doesn't feel rushed. I want a GT game that feels as good as the PS2 games did.
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Yeah if they made a current gen game built for the ps4 that would be incredible, but seems like we are getting a mash up of ps3 and ps2 era games.
 
Meh, it'll be great, and I'll buy it day 1.
Couldn't care less about interiors - I'm a bumper cam driver.
 
As much as I love GT I don't think we're going to get an awesome one again like GT1-3.
 
Viktor said:
As much as I love GT I don't think we're going to get an awesome one again like GT1-3.
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My favorite to date is GT5. Granted, I haven't played GT6...but I heard GT6 is night and day better than GT5 in options, features and bug fixes.
 
Kvally said:
My favorite to date is GT5. Granted, I haven't played GT6...but I heard GT6 is night and day better than GT5 in options, features and bug fixes.
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I haven't played 6 as much as 5 but it's definitely an improvement. Anyways GT1 will always be the best to me. My brother is 10 years older than me and he had a PS1 at the time. Had to sneak into his room when he was gone just to play the game.
 
starseeker said:
The gaming internet went nuts when they learned that "Standard" cars have return.

I wouldn't be surprise they reuse also Premium GT5-6 cars as Premiums in GT7 and claim the detail levels are high enough. They did said that GT5 models (premiums) are created so high, so they can use it for next gen or something.
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I don't think that would be that bad, really. The Premium cars in GT5-6 look fantastic, and the fact that they tesselate proves that they are based on very-high quality assests. Now, the "standard" cars is just laughable. My biggest issue with GT now-a-days (aside from an absolutely boring presentation that was unfortunately aped by Forza in F5) is the inconsistency. It's hard to tout your massive number of cars when the vast majority are hold-overs from a previous generation.

"GT7 is in the works....but I don't think we will make it this year, lol!! ... or next year.. or... maybe 2017!... Holiday! Mark your calenders!!"
 
de3d1 said:
True but doesn't photomode and autovista look better in part because of those added polygons?
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Menace-UK is right on in this. Whenever they list those numbers they mean at the highest level. There are many levels of detail they switch through as they get closer to the camera. The big advantage GT6 had even over Forza 5 was its use of tesselation, which makes the LOD transition seamless.

That said, the highest level models will almost never be seen during actual gameplay. I believe F4's Autovista cars were a million polys. They are rendering the entire car down to the engine, inside the trunks, wires, and the little nut's and bolts you never see during gameplay, or would. Just go from Autovista to a race and watch the pre-race where the car is just sitting in the environment (looking awesome with the Image-based lighting!) there is a marked disparity in poly count. Keep in mind there is much more to render than just one car in a single room with no physics application or expansive environment.

I do 3d modeling and I can typically guess within a certain degree how many polys the model is throwing around, but shaders and normal maps can mask a lack of geometry as well.
 
Frozpot said:
The big advantage GT6 had even over Forza 5 was its use of tesselation, which makes the LOD transition seamless.
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According to Digital Foundry:

"Adaptive tessellation has been added to GT6, but it's a struggle to see where it is utilised. In-game we see LOD 'pop' as lower poly cars are swapped in with higher detail versions as we move to overtake."
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It has also been suggested that GT6 employs a form of adaptive tessellation that dynamically adjusts the polygon mesh based on camera proximity. With the limited resolution of the game and the speed at which everything moves, it's difficult to say whether this pursuit was worthwhile in the end. Perhaps it is limited to the 30fps replays because we still see LOD popping on the car models in-game - the process where lower detail models are swapped in for higher poly versions as you move closer to them.
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Kvally said:
According to Digital Foundry:
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Ah. Never played 6, I just read it used tessellation. It didn't even occur to me it may not be well implemented. The fanboy gloating over the feature mislead me then.
 
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