Gun Reform Thread

This is why the NRA is a problem. There's no reason we can't raise the minimum age for guns and add a waiting period. That's not tearing apart the 2nd amendment, just putting some simple restrictions in place.

I'm not crazy about letting school personnel carry guns, but at least it isn't going so far as to actively arm them, just not preventing them from carrying.

For the record I work for a large public university and even we're not permitted to carry any kind of firearm on campus. While I don't own a gun I always felt this was a little too far (this is an adult college, not a "school").
 
  • Like
Reactions: Viktor
Why do you need a gun?

It is a very American thing - we own guns. I don't need a gun and I don't own one, but I grew up all around them and shot them often as a kid. While I don't have one, I very much like to know that I can own one (within reason of course).

It is in our Constitution and is part of our heritage. The problem is that those simple rights have been twisted and too many groups like the NRA fight any kind of regulation on guns, even simple, common sense ones.

America is just different from much of the rest of the world.
 
This is why the NRA is a problem. There's no reason we can't raise the minimum age for guns and add a waiting period. That's not tearing apart the 2nd amendment, just putting some simple restrictions in place.

I'm not crazy about letting school personnel carry guns, but at least it isn't going so far as to actively arm them, just not preventing them from carrying.

For the record I work for a large public university and even we're not permitted to carry any kind of firearm on campus. While I don't own a gun I always felt this was a little too far (this is an adult college, not a "school").

Well the NRAs basic reasoning behind the opposing most attempted new gun legislation is because in most cases it wouldn't really accomplish what it claims to, and it allows for stricter and stricter laws to be passed in the future. Which historically speaking is a valid concern. In England for example it took almost a century and many pieces of new legislation throughout the years to slowly go from essentially no restrictions at all to the point where they are today. Also the right to keep and bear arms is the only constitutional right that says specifically "shall not be infringed".

I am also against anything that would essentially require any school personnel to be armed, but there should be a way for qualified staff who actively want to carry to be able to do so.

In my state it used to be illegal to have a weapon on college campuses, but a four years ago we passed a law allowing for concealed carry of firearms on college campuses for anyone with a current concealed weapons license. You don't need a license to carry a firearm in general (openly or concealed), but you do to carry in the schools.
 
Last edited:
Why do you need a gun?

slide_2.jpg
 
Well the NRA's basic reasoning behind the opposing most attempted new gun legislation is because in most cases it wouldn't really accomplish what it claims to, and it allows for stricter and stricter laws to be passed in the future. Which historically speaking is a valid concern. In England for example it took almost a century and many pieces of new legislation throughout the years to slowly go from essentially no restrictions at all to the point where they are today. Also the right to keep and bear arms is the only constitutional right that says specifically "shall not be infringed".

I am also against anything that would essentially require any school personnel to be armed, but there should be a way for qualified staff who actively want to carry to be able to do so.

In my state it used to be illegal to have a weapon on college campuses, but a four years ago we passed a law allowing for concealed carry of firearms on college campuses for anyone with a current concealed weapons license. You don't need a license to carry a firearm in general (openly or concealed), but you do to carry in the schools.

Well, the problem with the NRA is that they have decided that the best negotiating position is to never compromise on anything, ever. The gun lobbies simply have way too much power and have twisted something that in reality shouldn't be that difficult.

It isn't a slippery slope argument (a logical fallacy by the way). Adding things like a 3 day waiting period isn't going to lead to the government coming to get your guns. Putting in a few restrictions isn't going to lead to guns being banned. It is a false argument from the start. The NRA has framed the argument that way for a reason.

For all the slippery slope arguments, very little has changed with guns at the federal level. Pretty much everything major happens at the state level.
 
Well the NRAs basic reasoning behind the opposing most attempted new gun legislation is because in most cases it wouldn't really accomplish what it claims to, and it allows for stricter and stricter laws to be passed in the future. Which historically speaking is a valid concern. In England for example it took almost a century and many pieces of new legislation throughout the years to slowly go from essentially no restrictions at all to the point where they are today. Also the right to keep and bear arms is the only constitutional right that says specifically "shall not be infringed".

I am also against anything that would essentially require any school personnel to be armed, but there should be a way for qualified staff who actively want to carry to be able to do so.

In my state it used to be illegal to have a weapon on college campuses, but a four years ago we passed a law allowing for concealed carry of firearms on college campuses for anyone with a current concealed weapons license. You don't need a license to carry a firearm in general (openly or concealed), but you do to carry in the schools.

The second amendment also says, "WELL regulated"...
 
For all the slippery slope arguments, very little has changed with guns at the federal level. Pretty much everything major happens at the state level.

But the liberals in gub'mint are going to take away your guns and send you to homosexual Muslim indoctrination camps!
 
  • Like
Reactions: Kerosene31
But the liberals in gub'mint are going to take away your guns and send you to homosexual Muslim indoctrination camps!

But a bunch of people in the 1700s said we should own them! Those were the good ole days. The days when we could own black people.
 
Why do you need a gun?

I like that we have the option to have a gun for something like home defense or personal defense, within reason.

I think a basic Pump Action 12 Shotgun would be plenty for home defense; not an Assault Rifle. Something like this.

remington_870_pump_shotgun_301169_4.jpg



As for personal carry, I think a Revolver would be enough. Neither of these are high capacity weapons and I think revolvers can be made Single Action requiring a pull on the hammer for every shot. You can't reload Revolvers as fast as you can Pistols either.

Taurus_850_CIA_2-850121CIAUL_03.jpg



Aside from that, I'd be willing to accept a complete ban on all Semi-Automatic weapons. This would mean I would have to turn in or exchange guns that I own. I have my grandpa's old Semi-Auto Remington Shotgun, but I would be willing to part with it.

As for the 2nd Amendment challenging Government Tyranny, citizen militia will never compete with our military so that argument is completely ridiculous.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Kerosene31
I like that we have the option to have a gun for something like home defense or personal defense, within reason.

I think a basic Pump Action 12 Shotgun would be plenty for home defense; not an Assault Rifle. Something like this.

remington_870_pump_shotgun_301169_4.jpg



As for personal carry, I think a Revolver would be enough. Neither of these are high capacity weapons and I think revolvers can be made Single Action requiring a pull on the hammer for every shot. You can't reload Revolvers as fast as you can Pistols either.

Taurus_850_CIA_2-850121CIAUL_03.jpg



Aside from that, I'd be willing to accept a complete ban on all Semi-Automatic weapons. This would mean I would have to turn in or exchange guns that I own. I have my grandpa's old Semi-Auto Remington Shotgun, but I would be willing to part with it.

As for the 2nd Amendment challenging Government Tyranny, citizen militia will never compete with our military so that argument is completely ridiculous.
Right, no need to have an automatic rifle. The zombie horde is not coming for you.
 
Im going to paste in an answer to some of the gun control nuts that I thought was exactly how I feel about why we dont want to compromise on any gun regulation.
I know it will do no good here, especially to those who aren't even smart enough to know what "Well Regulated" really means..
Paul Feist, NRA instructor, Life Member, Gun Collector, Competitive Shooter, and Author.
Answered Mar 6


Several things would help your (the left side of the American political aisle) case.

First - it would be very nice if you could ask the question without the politically charged epithet “Right-wingers”. Unless you would like the answer to contain “liberal nazi goons”, which also sets a negative tone and doesn’t further a useful discussion - avoid this sort of language.

Let me give you some positive ideas to consider;

Genuine Compromise

Since National Firearms Act of 1934, the anti-gun side has considered “compromise” to be “Give us some of what we want now, free, and we’ll come take the rest later”.

Here’s a radical idea - How about you offer something WE have wanted for a long time? I can think of two things - National Concealed Carry Reciprocity, and the removal of the Hughes Amendment to the Firearms Owners Protection Act of 1986.

No tricks, no adding rider amendments to pull those out at the last minute, at 2am before a Senate vote… an actual, genuine offer.

Now, to be honest, those of us who have been following the debate for 40-ish years wouldn’t buy it. We’ve seen it before. Any gun control bill of any kind with any sort of actual compromise in it gets re-written at the last minute before the vote to remove any provisions that might interest the pro-gun side in voting for it - hoping that it would get enough votes to pass anyway.

You wonder why the pro-gun side is so steadfast against any form of legislation? Well, that’s because we’ve never ONCE seen a bill that ONLY does what the proponents say it does. Ban “armor piercing ammo”? Sounds reasonable… except it was written to ban virtually any ammunition of any design - on purpose. Even the generally positive “Firearms Owners Protection Act” of ’86 got that little “gotcha” slipped in to take the rate of crime from lawfully possessed fully automatic weapons from ZERO point ZERO percent, to.. what exactly was the point of that? Since 1934, NOT ONE SINGLE CRIME had ever been commited with a lawfully tax-stamped full auto weapon. Not one. And yet, the Hughes Amendment closed the registrations for them for law abiding citizens.

You’ve screwed us enough times we’re not buying into it any more. Our shields are up, and we’re not believing you any more when you offer “compromise”.

You want us to consider a few things? Show us you’re not just trying to tighten the noose on all firearms ownership. Compromise - for real this time.

Prove it will work here, now, in the 21st Century America.

You can point to different cultures, like Japan, or Europe, or the UK, or Australia - guess what: we’re not any of those places.

Show us how disarming law-abiding citizens will make a statistically significant difference in the overall violence in this country. Don’t cherry pick the data - show us how the number of people killed with hammers (which is more than those killed with rifles) is going to change with a particular law and you might just be shocked when we voice support for it.

You see, MY AR-15 has harmed no one. Nor will it ever. You need to make a pretty strong case that me giving up MY rifle is going to affect anything.

You also need to show me how my more accurate, longer range, bolt action rifle is not “next up” on your agenda. That again is going to be a long hard road for you to regain that trust - we’ve seen it before. One thing gets banned, then within DAYS, you’re looking for something else.

Don’t give us that bulls*** about how “we banned gun violence research”. We did no such thing. We stopped the CDC from actively seeking gun control legislation. If you don’t recognize the difference between doing research which is, and has always been, perfectly legal for the CDC to do, and pushing a political agenda from a bully pulpit with tax dollars - then we really don’t have any common ground for discussion.

Accept that the Second Amendment is a RIGHT, and an INDIVIDUAL RIGHT that shall not be infringed.

We get it. You want to ban all guns. You’ve been saying it for more than 50 years. “We’ll ban this now, and ban everything else later!”. Yeah, that’s why we oppose unequivocally each and every one of your “little steps” towards that.

If you really want responsible gun ownership, and gun safety, then you’re going to have to accept that the second amendment exists, and that it means what the Founding Fathers said it means in their other writings. It’s an individual right. And it shall not be infringed.

You want to talk about improving mental health reporting? Felony reporting? Keeping criminals from purchasing firearms? Improved background checks?

It’s real simple - Accept that these are not just a “step towards banning guns”.

Don’t talk out of one side of your face saying “Oh, yeah, I’m a hunter, and I think people should be able to own hunting guns”, while supporting banning handguns, etc.

Accept that a free country, with free citizens, is based upon The People having arms for their own defense, defense against a tyrannical government (heaven forbid it should ever come to that - believe it or not, gun rights supporters do NOT want to overthrow the government, we just want to be certain that the government is never overthrown from within and can act with impunity against the People…), AND hunting, target shooting, etc.

If the political left were unequivocal and vocal about that, and backed it up by stopping support for any legislation that infringed upon that - you would be flabergasted by how fast we could work together on legislation that improved how we conduct background checks, track felons, and keep firearms out of the hands of those adjudicated mentally incompetant.

Until then - we know damn well you’re going to load any such bills with little “Gotcha’s” that classify wanting to own a firearm as a “mental disorder”. Don’t say you won’t, we’ve seen it happen in the early 90’s - it’s in the Congressional Record. “Fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me”.

Finally;

Let’s have a talk about whether you want to reduce crime or just “ban guns”.

You want to reduce crime? Hell, so do we! I’ll bet that with all of 20 minutes of discussion, we could come up with 20 ways to reduce crime, and violence, that have nothing to do with banning guns.

You want to reduce crime? Let’s talk about education, prison reform, and maybe have a long talk about how we treat ex-cons in this country (often leaving them damn little choice but to return to crime, because virtually no jobs or job training is open to them).

If you just want to “ban guns”, the conversation is going nowhere - and you know that.

Understand and accept what the National Rifle Association is, and isn’t.

The NRA is an association of it’s millions of members. It is not a trade association, and it’s not a “think tank lobbying organization”. And it’s not a “Firearms Industry Lobby” (that’s the NSSF).

The NRA is between five and seven million gun owners that, of their own choosing, pay their membership dues to support the NRA and it’s subsidiary organization, the NRA-ILA.

When you say “stop the NRA” - you’re not talking about a faceless corporate lobbying group - you’re talking directly to me, a life member, and when you call the NRA murderers? You’re calling me a murderer.

You cannot insult me into agreeing with you. In fact, I have a very long memory. I was called, to my face, a murderer for being a gun owner back in the early 90’s. That was when I put down the first payment on my Life Membership.

Recognize that I am not a criminal. I am not mentally incompetent. I do not have a “gun fetish”. I am a citizen that has committed no crime, threatened no person, and enjoys collecting and shooting firearms for competition, sport, and keeps a couple for self defense in full accordance with the law. Attacking me, personally, or by association, will not serve your goals - it will turn me into an active voter and campaigner against you.

I will not forget, and I will not forgive, past transgressions, insults, and lies directed against me and my fellow gun owners. If you want my cooperation, you need to begin by making amends - then, maybe, we can work together to solve the problems you say you want to solve.

You work on those five points. Then we can have an honest, genuine, conversation about how to reduce crime and violence in 21st century America.
 
Yes, because literally the only two positions are "Guns are not available to anyone, any time, for any reason" or "Anyone can buy anything up to and including surface to air missiles without restriction." :txbrolleyes::smash:
 
Im going to paste in an answer to some of the gun control nuts that I thought was exactly how I feel about why we dont want to compromise on any gun regulation.
I know it will do no good here, especially to those who aren't even smart enough to know what "Well Regulated" really means..
He starts off sounding like a combative fool. He equates the term “Right-wingers” with “liberal nazi goons." That's idiotic. He sets off a poor, aggressive tone right away.

His argument against a tyrannical government is idiotic as well. No amount of guns in citizens hands will stop the US government. It's so far past that stage it's crazy. I can't believe it's continually used as an argument.

I would love all guns to be banned. I've shot them before. They're fun, but I wouldn't care if they're all banned. Banning all guns would reduce the murders in this country. Anybody saying otherwise if wrong. Simply wrong.

I do know a lot of people enjoy them as a hobby/sport. I realize they would not want them banned. Also, people would like to have one for home protection. I'm ok with that as well.

Just because the amendment is the "right to bear arms," it doesn't mean you have the right to bear any, and all, arms. That's a fallacy that second amendment seem to always clutch to. Nobody has the constitutional right to have an AR15. Nobody has the right to a Sig Sauer. Second amendment people have the right to the weapons that were available at the time. Any weapons owned after that time have been allowed to be owned.

I say go back to muskets since those were the weapons when the amendment was written. Don't bring up bulls*** of automatic rifles and canons being available. They were not. Canons were too expensive for citizen protection. If the argument is, "Well, they had the foresight to know weapons would advance." Ok, if that's the case, then they also knew weapons would go over the top as well, hence WELL REGULATED.

A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State,
the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

Well-regulated:
1. to control or direct by a rule, principle, method, etc.
2. to adjust to some standard or requirement, as amount, degree, etc.
3. to adjust so as to ensure accuracy of operation
4. to put in good order​
Well-regulated means EXACTLY what it means. A well regulated Militia is citizens who are governed by a set of rules and regulations. It doesn't mean free to own whatever gun whatever you want.
 
I'll be happy to prove that gun restrictions reduce crime as soon as the Republicans show me the proof that their tax plan will actually benefit most people. :)
 
  • Like
Reactions: karmakid
Why do you need a gun?

I live far in the wilderness where it's an absolute necessity. You have the 2 legged animals that try to break into your homes and steal your stuff from buildings where they know they can get away with it, since it's a 45 minute wait to get a local sheriff or state police person to come to your house. The heroin addicts in our area are notorious for this.

You have tons of destructive creatures like squirrels (that have caused me $1500 in vehicle damages like chewed fuel lines and electrical wiring within the last year) and raccoons that will climb on your roof and chew through satellite TV/internet cables each year. You have coyotes that kill livestock and many other unfriendly creatures that need to be taken care of.

I only own redneck variety weapons like a 12 ga shotgun, .22 rifle, .22 pistol, 9mm pistol, and a hunting rifle for my needs. No one on earth outside of the military should be owning these assault rifles for any logical reason.
 
I live far in the wilderness where it's an absolute necessity. You have the 2 legged animals that try to break into your homes and steal your stuff from buildings where they know they can get away with it, since it's a 45 minute wait to get a local sheriff or state police person to come to your house. The heroin addicts in our area are notorious for this.

You have tons of destructive creatures like squirrels (that have caused me $1500 in vehicle damages like chewed fuel lines and electrical wiring within the last year) and raccoons that will climb on your roof and chew through satellite TV/internet cables each year. You have coyotes that kill livestock and many other unfriendly creatures that need to be taken care of.

I only own redneck variety weapons like a 12 ga shotgun, .22 rifle, .22 pistol, 9mm pistol, and a hunting rifle for my needs. No one on earth outside of the military should be owning these assault rifles for any logical reason.
I'm ok with that, except for the squirrels. I know they can be a nuisance, but I still love the critters.
 
If my semi-auto Remington was banned I wouldn't get all indignant about being Criminalized or something. If an exchange was offered, I would trade it in and downgrade to the Bolt Action that guy was talking about.

What I like about those single shot guns is while they may be accurate, it takes skill. You can't just spray bullets with them.

Do we have to fear the slippery slope though? Maybe a little bit, or maybe the guy who wrote that artilcle thinks the NRA is only good for defending assault weapons and not regular guns. I really wonder if stepping in with that compromise would give the political right and the even the NRA massive political capital.

Unless what the NRA fears is their own membership fleeing.
 
I live far in the wilderness where it's an absolute necessity. You have the 2 legged animals that try to break into your homes and steal your stuff from buildings where they know they can get away with it, since it's a 45 minute wait to get a local sheriff or state police person to come to your house. The heroin addicts in our area are notorious for this.

You have tons of destructive creatures like squirrels (that have caused me $1500 in vehicle damages like chewed fuel lines and electrical wiring within the last year) and raccoons that will climb on your roof and chew through satellite TV/internet cables each year. You have coyotes that kill livestock and many other unfriendly creatures that need to be taken care of.

I only own redneck variety weapons like a 12 ga shotgun, .22 rifle, .22 pistol, 9mm pistol, and a hunting rifle for my needs. No one on earth outside of the military should be owning these assault rifles for any logical reason.
I grew up on a farm, and we had guns until I was about 13 and the laws changed, but guns were only really used to hunt rabbits/cats as a hobby.

Now the local shires hand out traps/cages for free to take care of rodents/possums/feral cats/foxes, and then anything else it would be practical to kill, is protected by law. You can't kill any kangaroos or possums, no matter how much s*** they destroy.
 
I like that we have the option to have a gun for something like home defense or personal defense, within reason.

I think a basic Pump Action 12 Shotgun would be plenty for home defense; not an Assault Rifle. Something like this.

remington_870_pump_shotgun_301169_4.jpg



As for personal carry, I think a Revolver would be enough. Neither of these are high capacity weapons and I think revolvers can be made Single Action requiring a pull on the hammer for every shot. You can't reload Revolvers as fast as you can Pistols either.

Taurus_850_CIA_2-850121CIAUL_03.jpg



Aside from that, I'd be willing to accept a complete ban on all Semi-Automatic weapons. This would mean I would have to turn in or exchange guns that I own. I have my grandpa's old Semi-Auto Remington Shotgun, but I would be willing to part with it.

As for the 2nd Amendment challenging Government Tyranny, citizen militia will never compete with our military so that argument is completely ridiculous.
See, as someone who doesn't 'get' guns, I can completely empathise with your post. It's logical and rational.

My family buried some of their rifles in the backyard when the government had the gun buy-back scheme when semi's were made illegal here, but practical guns are still available if you're interested. Even pistols.

But if you got caught carrying a fire arm in public, you'd definitely be arrested here. It's illegal to stop your car for petrol/the supermarket if you have a gun in the car too. That seems a bit overboard to me.
 
I grew up on a farm, and we had guns until I was about 13 and the laws changed, but guns were only really used to hunt rabbits/cats as a hobby.

Now the local shires hand out traps/cages for free to take care of rodents/possums/feral cats/foxes, and then anything else it would be practical to kill, is protected by law. You can't kill any kangaroos or possums, no matter how much s*** they destroy.

I would do it anyway no matter what the law is. I don't like animals that carry their babies in skin bags attached to their bodies.
 
YouTube removing a bunch (maybe all?) gun videos and ammosexuals are moving to P******* instead. Seems fitting. Anyways, honestly surprised the NRA or some other gun group doesn't already have their own website for uploading gun videos. Either way I find it hilarious on social media gun proponents are calling this an attack on their freedom and equating it to book burning. :laugh:
 
  • Like
Reactions: horns and Plainview