How can Xbox1 add performance with the cloud ?

Johnmiceter

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Sep 15, 2013
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I'm not trying to start a debate about which console is better, but I was just reading something on the Techgame that says they can add performance increases with the cloud in the future, but does anyone know what this trully means ? And why wouldn't Sony be able to do the same thing with the PS4, because I'm guessing they could as well.
 
John,

It has the ability to free up intensive CPU tasks such as A.I., physics etc and can offload them onto the Cloud, thereby giving game developers more resources and power to add towards graphic fidelity locally etc. As it stands, Sony doesn't have the infrastructure to do such a thing right now, but many believe will be the case in the near future. Having this kind of capability really is a game changer in my book! I believe gamers are in for a real treat next gen.
 
With dark matter and anti-electrons.

On a serious note though.....from what I understand, it is about offloading non real time calculations to be crunched in the cloud, and then they get accessed when needed.
 
From what I understand this cloud thing has been around for some time now and it has never done what MS is claiming it's going to do.
 
From what I understand this cloud thing has been around for some time now and it has never done what MS is claiming it's going to do.
I thought Bill Gates invented the cloud? :txbconfused:
 
And with Xbox One using the power of cloud we can add features, we can add functionality, we can have performance increases over time. I think that will keep the platform very fresh over a long period of time.”

This is what I'm talking about from the article. They are saying over time they can have performance increases. But wouldn't that be new drivers or just releasing more ram that stored for the OS what the PS4 can do anyway ? I heard Sony say something like this in the future they will allow more ram to be allocated for games.

I'm not trying to start a debate if Xbox is more powerful just wondering if it's the same thing Sony was talking about as well ?
 
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Someone correct me if I am wrong, Sony doesn't have the ability to offload processing. According to what MS has been claiming, they do. As far as opening up ram, the X1 can do that as well as the PS4 I believe.
 
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Phil Harrison is the guy that made this statement. I'd take everything he says with a pinch of salt. Remember this is the same guy who said Kinect can be used for collecting data for targeted marketing and caused an uproar. I try to ignore him personally. Penello is a far better source of info.
 
Someone correct me if I am wrong, Sony doesn't have the ability to offload processing. According to what MS has been claiming, they do. As far as opening up ram, the X1 can do that as well as the PS4 I believe.
But I think the guy in the article is talking about something different Plainview, saying Overtime they can have performance increases. I'm just wondering if he means maybe allow more free ram like Sony was talking about to give developers more to work with or maybe better tools or drivers or something like this ?
 
By performance increases I think he means that by offloading processes the hardware will be free to do other things.

Yeah, while not "adding" to the console, offloading the non-latency involved tasks to cloud servers does free up the resources for the console.

Should be interesting to see how it all pans out!
 
Someone correct me if I am wrong, Sony doesn't have the ability to offload processing. According to what MS has been claiming, they do. As far as opening up ram, the X1 can do that as well as the PS4 I believe.

Below is a quote from the link i provided below. I am interested on your thoughts on it. To be honest, i am unsure on the smaller aspects of this topic other than i was under the impression that Sony not using the cloud was more due to not having the large server farm that MS does, then not being able to do it.


Well, according to Sony Computer Entertainment’s Shuhei Yoshida, the PlayStation 4 can use technology and offload processes that are usually handled locally to the cloud, telling Polygon that “of course” PS4 developers will be able to use cloud-based computing.


http://www.playstationlifestyle.net...-computing-to-be-more-powerful-too-says-sony/
 
Below is a quote from the link i provided below. I am interested on your thoughts on it. To be honest, i am unsure on the smaller aspects of this topic other than i was under the impression that Sony not using the cloud was more due to not having the large server farm that MS does, then not being able to do it.





http://www.playstationlifestyle.net...-computing-to-be-more-powerful-too-says-sony/

Sony doesn't have the resources to enable this.....yet. I do however, thoroughly expect them to have their own Cloud infrastructure in the near future. Hopefully...
 
Below is a quote from the link i provided below. I am interested on your thoughts on it. To be honest, i am unsure on the smaller aspects of this topic other than i was under the impression that Sony not using the cloud was more due to not having the large server farm that MS does, then not being able to do it.

That was shortly after E3 and I think he was just saying it to say it. Very little has been spoken about it since then, or, at the very least, nothing has been shown to back up his assertion. What will happen down the road, who knows. If it doesn't pan out for MS, Sony has no reason to peruse it.
 
The majority of cloud implementations will be unlikely to enhance game performance, or be done to enhance game performance.

IMO.

MS's cloud offering is a boon to developers wanting to create games that connect to the internet as it makes the server aspect free. Games including SP games have been connecting to the internet for decades now.. so it's not some incredibly new concept. We are more likely to see cool co-op game augmentations or game worlds that download information from the internet to augment themselves, or things like shared Driveatars based on your friends driving habits, etc.

Improving actual performance with the cloud is incredibly difficult as every users experience is difference. The things being calculated in the cloud can't predict if a user will have a 10MS ping or a 100MS ping.. or even be disconnected from time to time (unless they want to require a constant connection, which for an SP game can be problematic.)

Because of that, most games doing "stuff in the cloud" will likely need an alternative if the cloud is unavailable or otherwise slow. Which makes the design decision of "using the cloud for performance" a murky one.. it means that those with no or poor connections get a mixed experience. Imagine if they are using the cloud for lighting.. and your connection goes wonky.. does the sun not go down in your game? Does the lighting suddenly suck? Why would you design a game like that just to get a small performance boost?

In theoretical situations, best case scenarios you could do some cool s***.. but that's not necessarily applicable to a 50-100 million console userbase.

And many companies are doing cool online augmented single-player games that have MMO elements with or without MS's cloud offering.

It's an incredibly awesome deal, and likely the best SDK out there for doing gaming related cloud processing.. but it's not the only one out there.
 
The majority of cloud implementations will be unlikely to enhance game performance, or be done to enhance game performance.

IMO.

MS's cloud offering is a boon to developers wanting to create games that connect to the internet as it makes the server aspect free. Games including SP games have been connecting to the internet for decades now.. so it's not some incredibly new concept. We are more likely to see cool co-op game augmentations or game worlds that download information from the internet to augment themselves, or things like shared Driveatars based on your friends driving habits, etc.

Improving actual performance with the cloud is incredibly difficult as every users experience is difference. The things being calculated in the cloud can't predict if a user will have a 10MS ping or a 100MS ping.. or even be disconnected from time to time (unless they want to require a constant connection, which for an SP game can be problematic.)

Because of that, most games doing "stuff in the cloud" will likely need an alternative if the cloud is unavailable or otherwise slow. Which makes the design decision of "using the cloud for performance" a murky one.. it means that those with no or poor connections get a mixed experience. Imagine if they are using the cloud for lighting.. and your connection goes wonky.. does the sun not go down in your game? Does the lighting suddenly suck? Why would you design a game like that just to get a small performance boost?

I think too many people equate "performance = TEH SHINIEZ FPS!" though. For the most part, there's little way to really improve how a game is going to look graphically by the cloud. Where I think the real difference is going to be realized is in games with large worlds, where the developer can use the cloud to do a much more thorough world simulation than if they were constrained to the available resources on the console after all the other stuff it has to do. Rather than having hub cities be basically frozen in time when you're no longer there, your actions can actually have consequences that can be fully realized without having to detract from your active game play session - though of course, if you were offline, you could just walk back into that snapshot or the last updated world state.
 
I think too many people equate "performance = TEH SHINIEZ FPS!" though. For the most part, there's little way to really improve how a game is going to look graphically by the cloud. Where I think the real difference is going to be realized is in games with large worlds, where the developer can use the cloud to do a much more thorough world simulation than if they were constrained to the available resources on the console after all the other stuff it has to do. Rather than having hub cities be basically frozen in time when you're no longer there, your actions can actually have consequences that can be fully realized without having to detract from your active game play session - though of course, if you were offline, you could just walk back into that snapshot or the last updated world state.

Sure, something like that could be related to performance.. that's the non-latency dependent AI stuff that is technically feasible.

A game could begin simulating in the background on an XBO some randomness to a town.. say Skyrim 2 you are within 1,000 yards of a location it will kick off a routine in the background to have the NPC's be doing things, making the town different every time you visit.. but the game can't feasibly do that.. so instead if makes it really simple.. some randomization, but nothing that special.

In comes the cloud.. the game can have a "not that special" fallback routine that quickly randomizes a few things if the user is offline.. but if they are online the game could kick off a quick simu in "the cloud" for that area that returns a more interesting set of data to initialize what the town is doing when the user actually "gets there."

Or have a constantly running simulation of the entire world.. but that might be overkill.

A performance enhancement?

Sort of.... but the game will likely still need a fallback routine. That's the catch-22.. if you reserve all CPU/GPU cycles for rendering and expect the cloud to always be there to process some non-latency dependent AI that's dangerous.

So you still end up with your "last gen routine" reserved just in case.. the game has to expect to maybe have to calculate the same small simulation it did last gen when nearing a town.

The thing is, games are already doing stuff like that with or without MS's cloud. These companies might not even choose to use MS's very generous offering simply because they want to control it all on their own servers.

MS's offering represents an awesome deal for developers to do more and more of where gaming is already going and already has gone.

If anything it means more small/indie/AA style games with cool online features a pub would never have footed the bill to host before. Maybe even some exclusives because these devs can't afford to foot the bill themselves elsewhere.
 
This is what I'm talking about from the article. They are saying over time they can have performance increases. But wouldn't that be new drivers or just releasing more ram that stored for the OS what the PS4 can do anyway ? I heard Sony say something like this in the future they will allow more ram to be allocated for games.

I'm not trying to start a debate if Xbox is more powerful just wondering if it's the same thing Sony was talking about as well ?

Microsoft wants to do something like ONLIVE in a few years. They are hoping that internet connections improve and video codecs (h.265) get better so they can stream games and run them in the cloud instead of on your home gaming machine.
 
A proper dynamic, multi-regional dual and diverse fault tolerant cloud infrastructure takes YEARS and BILLIONS of dollars to implement properly(like Microsoft, Amazon or Google) at best Sony will rent cloud hosting\storage from one of the big providers and pretend it's the same thing as Microsoft implementation.....they have neither the time or the money to replicate Azure.
 
A proper dynamic, multi-regional dual and diverse fault tolerant cloud infrastructure takes YEARS and BILLIONS of dollars to implement properly(like Microsoft, Amazon or Google) at best Sony will rent cloud hosting\storage from one of the big providers and pretend it's the same thing as Microsoft implementation.....they have neither the time or the money to replicate Azure.

Yeah there's no way they'll have the same service to offer.

That doesn't mean games from Sony won't have cloud features.. or that multi-plats will be missing those features on Sony's system.

The expense to do it as a console manufacturer, offering it to all of your devs is exponentially higher than the cost for a single dev or even a single publisher to do it on their own. And if it's done in house it doesn't have to be quite as fancy SDK wise.. or even quite as dynamic.

MS has the huge advantage of having built that infrastructure for other purposes. Piggy-backing XBL stuff onto it was genius.. whether that was planned from the start of Azure or not I have no clue.. but it's a good way for MS to actually do something with a service they've only recently taken out of beta and are still selling heavily to businesses.

MS has a whole lot of idle compute available basically.. so other than that compute representing more power/wear on their servers it's an already paid for expense unless Azure suddenly sells to every business in the world overnight.
 
Web hosting and cloud hosting provider Rackspace announced Friday in an earnings call it recently signed an agreement with Sony PlayStation in which its “developers and architects will be consulting and supporting the PlayStation team with their OpenStack private cloud deployment.”

OpenStack, a project Rackspace jointly created with NASA, is a global collaboration of developers and cloud computing technologists producing an open source cloud computing platform for public and private clouds. -
Source

I don't know what that means, actually. I just know Sony is trying to match Xbox One in the cloud.
 
A game could begin simulating in the background on an XBO some randomness to a town.. say Skyrim 2 you are within 1,000 yards of a location it will kick off a routine in the background to have the NPC's be doing things, making the town different every time you visit.. but the game can't feasibly do that.. so instead if makes it really simple.. some randomization, but nothing that special.

In comes the cloud.. the game can have a "not that special" fallback routine that quickly randomizes a few things if the user is offline.. but if they are online the game could kick off a quick simu in "the cloud" for that area that returns a more interesting set of data to initialize what the town is doing when the user actually "gets there."

I think it's more along the lines of the cloud is simulating the entire game world and downloads snapshot data (enough to recreate the experience) periodically, and maybe pulls more data for closer-in locations. And even if they didn't end up freeing a single bit of processing power on the local CPU, I'd consider this still a massive benefit, because they're still providing you with an experience that would simply be impossible offline. I do agree that anyone who thinks this will contribute significantly to improving how a game looks is likely going to be disappointed on that front, but I'm excited to see how people who will be working with this can improve how games play - which, in the end, is what we all care most about. :)
 
I don't know what that means, actually. I just know Sony is trying to match Xbox One in the cloud.

I doubt that severely - what it seems more likely to be is an enhancement of PSN, because I can't imagine Sony allowing themselves to be caught pants down again on that. But there's no way they're going to be competing with MS in cloud computing - the amount of money they'd have to invest in that, especially considering how poorly it aligns with their non-gaming business makes it impossible. If they did decide that they needed to at least try for parity in the cloud, they'd probably have to work out something with Amazon, since they're the real competition for MS in that space.