Official Thread Pillow Fight that nobody wins with MOAR Jackie Chan and guys comfortable with STRETCHING their sexuality!

Status
Not open for further replies.
Who called it superior? I think words are being intentionally twisted. It's been called most innovative, most exciting console. That all relates to the IO speeds which means devs no longer have to chunk up their games to hide loading or use tons of system resources for decompression. That later part the Series X also does as well (saving CPU and memory resources). X is slower on the content loading but it's still fast. Sonys prioritization of IO speeds should help 1st party be less restrained in game and level design. For everything else, Series X has at least the same efficiencies...maybe more....with more compute power.
I agree. The dev quotes sounded to me more like the system is awesome, and innovative, and its getting a bad rap- not 'this thing is superior' to the X.
 
PS5's SSD is over 2X the XSX and can be used to cache the ram of the PS5 better and do it faster than XSX.

I've read this three times and I'm still trying to figure out what you're talking about. The only two possibilities that make any realistic sense are: 1 - filling up the RAM from SSD, which is load times, or 2 - writing RAM back to the SSD for suspend/resume. My expectation is that you didn't mean either of those, though.

Also PS5 has faster available ram (16gb 448gbs)... how so? Well XSX ram is split and runs at different speeds(10gb 560gbs and 6gb 360gbs) which is a huge negative unlike the PS5 which all of it's ram runs the same speed.(Think PS3's 512)

The easier way of thinking of this is that they have 10GB of faster RAM for the GPU, where the bandwidth and speed matters more, and 6GB for the system/CPU/audio/etc, which will be more than fast enough since that RAM is not read from or written to at anywhere near the same frequency.

We don't know much about the compression techniques of either company(well we haven't seen it in action)

Wow, you said something technically accurate. Good job. Don't let it happen again.

The split allocated ram could very well be this gens Jaguar problem for XSX.

This is likely why most devs are saying PS5 is superior.
You didn't let it happen again. This is essentially taking stupid and then giving it a severe concussion. If you'd said ESRAM instead of Jaguar, it would have been regular stupid - because that was an architecture that caused some problems with the RAM speeds because the amount of fast RAM was not sufficient for keeping the GPU fed. A 10GB RAM pool for GPU and 6GB for CPU (though, they can of course choose other breakdowns) is not even remotely a challenge for any game developer who knows which part of the keyboard to put their fingers on.

Also XSX CPU isn't always running with all the threads either unlike the PS5.
And this is a baseball bat to the head after the concussions. Good Lord, if I give you a light switch that allows you to turn off the lights, it means the light isn't always on - does that make the lighting system worse than one that doesn't give you that option?
 
I've read this three times and I'm still trying to figure out what you're talking about. The only two possibilities that make any realistic sense are: 1 - filling up the RAM from SSD, which is load times, or 2 - writing RAM back to the SSD for suspend/resume. My expectation is that you didn't mean either of those, though.



The easier way of thinking of this is that they have 10GB of faster RAM for the GPU, where the bandwidth and speed matters more, and 6GB for the system/CPU/audio/etc, which will be more than fast enough since that RAM is not read from or written to at anywhere near the same frequency.



Wow, you said something technically accurate. Good job. Don't let it happen again.


You didn't let it happen again. This is essentially taking stupid and then giving it a severe concussion. If you'd said ESRAM instead of Jaguar, it would have been regular stupid - because that was an architecture that caused some problems with the RAM speeds because the amount of fast RAM was not sufficient for keeping the GPU fed. A 10GB RAM pool for GPU and 6GB for CPU (though, they can of course choose other breakdowns) is not even remotely a challenge for any game developer who knows which part of the keyboard to put their fingers on.


And this is a baseball bat to the head after the concussions. Good Lord, if I give you a light switch that allows you to turn off the lights, it means the light isn't always on - does that make the lighting system worse than one that doesn't give you that option?
So you are blind to the spec differences between the 2? Gotcha!
 
PS5's SSD is over 2X the XSX and can be used to cache the ram of the PS5 better and do it faster than XSX.
Also PS5 has faster available ram (16gb 448gbs)... how so? Well XSX ram is split and runs at different speeds(10gb 560gbs and 6gb 360gbs) which is a huge negative unlike the PS5 which all of it's ram runs the same speed.(Think PS3's 512)
So you can see the only way XSX can match it is if they use the much smaller but faster allocated ram which gives PS5 more ram.

We don't know much about the compression techniques of either company(well we haven't seen it in action)
The split allocated ram could very well be this gens Jaguar problem for XSX.

This is likely why most devs are saying PS5 is superior.

Also XSX CPU isn't always running with all the threads either unlike the PS5.


EDIT: What I think this means for games is.....

XSX could have more true 4K games deep in the gen.
PS5 games could be more detailed but maybe run at a lower res than XSX.
PS5 exclusives have the potential be significantly better looking ie a Pro vs X difference
PS5 3rd party games might be hampered due to the smaller XSX ram/slower SSD.*cough* PARITY

All of this completely ignores Velocity architecture and that Series X is also using the SSD as virtual ram. Essentially a different way to accomplish the same thing. It holds textures that are available instantaneously....just like on PS5. At some point, the GPU becomes the bottleneck because no matter how many textures are available, they all have to be drawn. Detail is still bottle-necked by GPU compute even if you had zero I/O limitations.

The extra I/O speeds help developers a lot. Much of the PS5's advantages come from exclusive game design. Developers have to spend less time figuring out how to hide loading, on trouble-shooting, it saves CPU use for decompression and saves memory since the SSD acts as an extension of the memory. Xbox Series X has all the same advantages with an earlier barrier on content loading. It could meet it's match if you're flying across the map very quickly (something that Insomniac and Guerilla Games have said they're doing). For normal game design trends, the exponential rise in I/O and large amount of virtual ram in the SSD has far out-paced the GPUs in these machines...which are likely the new bottle-necks. None of this will ever matter on the Xbox side because 3rd party devs have to factor PC consumer SSDs and we'll never know what sort of design compromises happened to Xbox 1st party.

In the end, Sony's hardware leverages their strength which is their 1st party studios who excel in open world games. The new tech will allow them to be more efficient. It's big for those devs. They will be able to produce content faster. That's really f'n exciting. The advantages won't show themselves in head to head comparisons unless we're comparing open world level design of the exclusives.
 
So you are blind to the spec differences between the 2? Gotcha!

Always love the " VaLLiancE pulls some random s*** out of his ass, gets an explanation of why his fingers are now smeared with crap, and then dismisses it without response' game. If only it ran a solid 60fps.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Mcmasters
Always love the " VaLLiancE pulls some random s*** out of his ass, gets an explanation of why his fingers are now smeared with crap, and then dismisses it without response' game. If only it ran a solid 60fps.
All these mental gymnastics trying to make the PS5 into something it'll never be. More powerful. Plain and simple. Its a great machine, I'm sure! But faster load times are really just that. All the other fluff around the subject is confusing as hell.
 
All these mental gymnastics trying to make the PS5 into something it'll never be. More powerful. Plain and simple. Its a great machine, I'm sure! But faster load times are really just that. All the other fluff around the subject is confusing as hell.
Much faster SSD
More high speed ram
More cores/threads used at all times
 
Much faster SSD
More high speed ram
More cores/threads used at all times

One out of three ain't bad. It's actually higher than your usual average.

If the devs want all cores and threads used at all times, they can do so. They can choose to disable it.

The XSX has overall higher bandwidth in the RAM, with a higher speed pool and a lower speed smaller pool.
 
I don't even understand the purpose of muddying up these conversations. People are very excited about the PS5. Computational stuff is one part of the equation. Indies and AA devs don't ever touch theoretical max power. Neither do most Japanese devs. Their games look and play better based on ease of development and right now the only Indies who've spoken out have been more excited for the PS5. Maybe that changes once Microsoft breaks NDA on some of the stuff they're keeping under wraps but as of today, PS5 is willing on the developer scorecard.

Playstation gamers should focus on the obvious wins. Not muddy it up with the logical gymnastics and pull off Mister X levels of goofiness. SSDs don't compute. If both systems equally take the load off of CPU, GPU and memory by using the same feature set from the same family of AMD parts, then compute power does matter (despite the weird downplaying of it suddenly). That matters when it comes to visual detail. No way around that.

Sony focused on wins that really cater towards their best developers. Open world games without design bottlenecks. PS5 will have better load times. It has a cheaper BOM and rumors still have Sony targeting releasing at a lower price than Series X. If it were my primary system, I'd be really happy with it. As my secondary system, I'm very excited to see what their 1st party does with the extra freedom and efficiency.
 
  • Agree
  • Like
Reactions: Dno69 and Mcmasters
One out of three ain't bad. It's actually higher than your usual average.

If the devs want all cores and threads used at all times, they can do so. They can choose to disable it.

The XSX has overall higher bandwidth in the RAM, with a higher speed pool and a lower speed smaller pool.
Legit. The Series X is just the superior console. People need to just get used to it. It's getting pretty ridiculous at this point - all the twisting and gymnastics for a few seconds faster on load times?? Or trying to close the important power/performance deltas??

I'll admit, I'm greatly looking forward to faster load times and instant travel as much as the next guy. But c'mon...the twisting of specs to make something it isnt is a sign of desperation IMO.
 
I don't even understand the purpose of muddying up these conversations. People are very excited about the PS5. Computational stuff is one part of the equation. Indies and AA devs don't ever touch theoretical max power. Neither do most Japanese devs. Their games look and play better based on ease of development and right now the only Indies who've spoken out have been more excited for the PS5. Maybe that changes once Microsoft breaks NDA on some of the stuff they're keeping under wraps but as of today, PS5 is willing on the developer scorecard.

Playstation gamers should focus on the obvious wins. Not muddy it up with the logical gymnastics and pull off Mister X levels of goofiness. SSDs don't compute. If both systems equally take the load off of CPU, GPU and memory by using the same feature set from the same family of AMD parts, then compute power does matter (despite the weird downplaying of it suddenly). That matters when it comes to visual detail. No way around that.

Sony focused on wins that really cater towards their best developers. Open world games without design bottlenecks. PS5 will have better load times. It has a cheaper BOM and rumors still have Sony targeting releasing at a lower price than Series X. If it were my primary system, I'd be really happy with it. As my secondary system, I'm very excited to see what their 1st party does with the extra freedom and efficiency.
This!
 
As an aside, I've seen all the comparison videos including the very popular, and now famous on Reset Era NXGamer. All those efficiencies are in Series X under different branding. We've known for a long time that RDNA 2 is much more efficient than GCN and that the same amount of Tflops goes much further. Cerny used Playstation branding when explaining the Navi efficiencies. A lot of influencers ran with those without obviously doing much homework on the Seriex X hardware. Can't compare one companies deep dive that includes efficiencies and compare it to the spec sheet of the other assuming it's off the shelf GCN parts duct taped together. It makes no sense to believe these efficiencies will work on one version of the same family of parts and not on the other. Only tribal fanboys are hoping that the other company got the broken version of the same stuff.
 
The new one I've been seeing on the net is because Sony has announced their 3D audio chip, Xbox "doesn't have one" so it brings their flop count down to 10, the misinformation spreading is definitely laughable.
 
  • Agree
Reactions: GordoSan
Thing is, we should try not to get caught up in it. In the end, very few people changing their favorite ecosystem over difference in compute power especially as there is more and more diminishing returns when it comes to how much compute is needed for the average naked eye to notice. Average gamers will probably notice load times before they see the difference in graphical fidelity or difference in ray tracing. The One X had a significant advantage of the Pro and by the end of this year, Sony will likely exclusively have 4 out of the top 6 or 7 most technically impressive games this gen. Focus should turn to developers and who's being empowered to do what they do best.

As for the technical speak, talk should turn to this massive, massive leap in CPU...and yes the impact the SSDs will have on game design on both consoles. There's also ML tools that will empower smaller devs to do bigger things...which is where eliminating time consuming workarounds with bottlenecks gets magnified. We should see big improvements in physics, AI, lighting, reflections, sound and seamless worlds across the board. This is a much bigger jump from last gen than we got in 2013 from either platform.

The key differences in these consoles will come down to exclusive content and their services. Microsoft had to win the power narrative to stay afloat with the messaging and mindshare. It's not going to win them anything. Only prevent elimination.

Finally, Microsoft may break NDAs soon. People will either have to admit they just didn't have the full picture when they made their claims or the mental gymnastics is going to hit an all time high. It's now clear that devs aren't talking about Series X because they aren't allowed to.
 
Last edited:
One out of three ain't bad. It's actually higher than your usual average.

If the devs want all cores and threads used at all times, they can do so. They can choose to disable it.

The XSX has overall higher bandwidth in the RAM, with a higher speed pool and a lower speed smaller pool.
PS5 games will be using 16 threads at launch unlike XSX.
Splitting the ram pool makes PS5 have the ram advantage.
 
Legit. The Series X is just the superior console. People need to just get used to it. It's getting pretty ridiculous at this point - all the twisting and gymnastics for a few seconds faster on load times?? Or trying to close the important power/performance deltas??

I'll admit, I'm greatly looking forward to faster load times and instant travel as much as the next guy. But c'mon...the twisting of specs to make something it isnt is a sign of desperation IMO.

Both have strengths and weakness but neither can be considered overall the better machine.
 
PS5 games will be using 16 threads at launch unlike XSX.
Splitting the ram pool makes PS5 have the ram advantage.

Continuing to repeat the same thing doesn't make it true.

You're cherry picking things with no context of how it works together. At this point, it's clear you're just going typical Val which means ignore every fact and explanation that contradicts what you believe. Wait for the games.
 
Last edited:
Continuing to repeat the same thing doesn't make it true.

You're cherry picking things with no context of how it works together. At this point, it's clear you're just going typical Val which means ignore every fact and explanation that contradicts what you believe. Wait for the games.
Yeah you don't understand
 
Bottom line is MS just bent Sony over and Sony doesn't give the common courtesy of a reach around.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.