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Hedon said:
There is no question it wasn’t finished. Hell, multiplayer was never shown and it’s the bread and butter.
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Exactly.

Noone knew of the pandemic until end of 2019 and around March 2020 is when we really locked down globally. If Halo was finished and ready for launch in November 2020, we would have seen some MP gameplay by then. We didn't which enforces that, pandemic or not, Halo would have been delayed indefinitely.

Glad we are in agreement.
 
yankeessuck said:
What we are getting is the completed game as opposed to whatever corners would have been cut. You can't just ignore 343s history.

The good news is Microsoft was willing to delay it. Old Microsoft would have been fine with releasing Halo no matter what state it was in.
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And the same old people will blast Halo again this year. Do you think I am wrong when I say that the "Halo disappoints even after year delay" articles are already partially drafted? How many articles will still show last year's footage on top?

Halo is always like that. I bet there will be more arguing over zoomed in screen grabs this Sunday than will actually be playing the game this fall.

The drama is a given. Younger people don't even care about it, it is all people our age and the gaming press who make it into this massive thing that is isn't anymore.
 
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For the record, while 343 is ultimately responsible for MCC. They outsourced the work to 4 or 5 different developers.
 
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Kerosene31 said:
And the same old people will blast Halo again this year. Do you think I am wrong when I say that the "Halo disappoints even after year delay" articles are already partially drafted? How many articles will still show last year's footage on top?

Halo is always like that. I bet there will be more arguing over zoomed in screen grabs this Sunday than will actually be playing the game this fall.

The drama is a given. Younger people don't even care about it, it is all people our age and the gaming press who make it into this massive thing that is isn't anymore.
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Halo isn't like that. 343's Halo is like that. Series that are great end up with greater expectations and attention.

People just want their cake and eat it too. Its ok if Microsoft pushes it hard as a top franchise. Its ok if lots of people are playing it day 1. But don't you dare expect a series that was once great to be great. That is unfair.
 
Hedon said:
For the record, while 343 is ultimately responsible for MCC. They outsourced the work to 4 or 5 different developers.
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When you look at who did what its pretty clear the failure was theirs. Unless Microsoft wouldn't let them delay it which case its all on Microsoft.

Saber Interactive did the Remastered Halo 2 campaign? That turned out well

Blur did the cutscenes for Halo 2? They are amazing

Certain Affinity did the Anniversary Multiplayer and maps? Nothing really wrong there.

343 oversees the game and does UI and Networking? And the MP barely works? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
 
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yankeessuck said:
When you look at who did what its pretty clear the failure was theirs. Unless Microsoft wouldn't let them delay it which case its all on Microsoft.

Saber Interactive did the Remastered Halo 2 campaign? That turned out well

Blur did the cutscenes for Halo 2? They are amazing

Certain Affinity did the Anniversary Multiplayer and maps? Nothing really wrong there.

343 oversees the game and does UI and Networking? And the MP barely works? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
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Spin Dolphin GIF
 
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yankeessuck said:
Halo isn't like that. 343's Halo is like that. Series that are great end up with greater expectations and attention.

People just want their cake and eat it too. Its ok if Microsoft pushes it hard as a top franchise. Its ok if lots of people are playing it day 1. But don't you dare expect a series that was once great to be great. That is unfair.
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What made Halo 2 MP great will never happen again. People don't actually want a Halo type arena shooter. MP games have moved on so much from that.

Single player can be great, but again it will never live up to the hype when the hype starts at impossibly high levels.
 
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Kerosene31 said:
What made Halo 2 MP great will never happen again. People don't actually want a Halo type arena shooter. MP games have moved on so much from that.

Single player can be great, but again it will never live up to the hype when the hype starts at impossibly high levels.
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If the MP has to be reinvented then so be it but the MP of 5 was a substantial improvement from 4 so I have less concerns there.

Well lots of great franchises start at high levels. When Nintendo announces a new Zelda the hype is crazy and the expectations are through the roof and Nintendo delivers. As much as you want to hand wave it away as Microsoft related unfairness its just as much the fans who want it to return to the quality it once had and there is no reason why it can't.
 
Swede said:
There's no one here that agrees with you on this one, not even the other Sony fans lol
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Everyone is entitled to their own opinions. IMO, Miles is a standalone game with main story around 8-9 hours. Full completionist takes 17-18 hours which is plenty long for a game selling for less than others.
 
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starseeker said:
The claim was the delay was mostly due to covid, not backlash or need time to polish etc.

The counterargument (of sort) is we acknowledge the impact of covid, but do not think the long delay was mainly due to covid.
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Covid made everyone notice the flaws in the graphics. Thanks, Obama.

(This post made with 100% post-consumer sarcasm).
 
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yankeessuck said:
As much as you want to hand wave it away as Microsoft related unfairness its just as much the fans who want it to return to the quality it once had and there is no reason why it can't.
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You're the perfect example of my point. You will hate whatever they do, as you have for every Halo game that I've been here for the launch of.

You say you want it better, but what you want is something to take you back to your younger days. It has nothing to do with game quality. No game is going to ever take me back to my early days of Halo being my first console shooter on my first gaming console in ages. That's not making excuses for MS, that's just simple reality. I'll play it when it hits Game Pass, but honestly, people like you are the ones who go through the same hype-hate loop. I'll never stop you though, so see you Sunday.
 
Kerosene31 said:
You're the perfect example of my point. You will hate whatever they do, as you have for every Halo game that I've been here for the launch of.

You say you want it better, but what you want is something to take you back to your younger days. It has nothing to do with game quality. No game is going to ever take me back to my early days of Halo being my first console shooter on my first gaming console in ages. That's not making excuses for MS, that's just simple reality. I'll play it when it hits Game Pass, but honestly, people like you are the ones who go through the same hype-hate loop. I'll never stop you though, so see you Sunday.
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Ah yes you caught me not loving Halo 4 and Halo 5. All the Halo fans love them so I must be a big hater.

And yes it is just making excuses.
 
Hedon said:
Sounds like people know what goes on with every company (impressive) and everyone assumes everyone is a liar. Imagine going through life like that 😳

You can think 343 and Santa Monica lied. That’s your choice. I was raised to think the best of people. Our company also didn’t lie about how Covid impacted us. But we are probably liars, right?
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Strawman. Misrepresent someone's argument, & argue against the misrepresented point.

NO ONE said we assume EVERYONE is lying all the time. People suspect it's a convenience EXCUSE base on the deductions, like other studiso do not have this massive issue with covid, or that 343 got big S backlash & MEME to death after last year E3. You do not have to agree with the deduction, but do not misrepresent.

Also, Trust cannot be demanded, It has to be earned. Didn't CDProjeckt RED claimed Cyberpunk was running well on last-gen consoles.


Also to be clear, my comment was not for Santa Monica, just 343.
 
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yankeessuck said:
Ah yes you caught me not loving Halo 4 and Halo 5. All the Halo fans love them so I must be a big hater.

And yes it is just making excuses.
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LOL you bitched endlessly on these games. You're the one obsessed with Halo, not me.

The game will be good or not, but people will blast it no matter what. Meanwhile there's a whole generation of younger gamers who see Halo and Star Wars as those things their dads love. It also drags out all the PS fanboys out of the woodwork to attack it (not saying that's you).

You never answered my question - do video game writers already have a draft of the Halo article written already? Yes or no? There were people posting stuff last year before the MS video stopped rolling. Will people still start their articles with "Craig" from last year? You know they will... you know these are already half written.
 
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The fact is, Halo has fallen as a franchise, as well as its esport /multiplayer popularity. Ninja (that blue hair Fortnite steamer) used to compete in Halo, but quit partially due to halo MP drop of popularity.

Halo need to fire on all cylinder in SP & make MP that meet the taste of todays's audiences.
 
Kerosene31 said:
LOL you b****ed endlessly on these games. You're the one obsessed with Halo, not me.

The game will be good or not, but people will blast it no matter what. Meanwhile there's a whole generation of younger gamers who see Halo and Star Wars as those things their dads love. It also drags out all the PS fanboys out of the woodwork to attack it (not saying that's you).

You never answered my question - do video game writers already have a draft of the Halo article written already? Yes or no? There were people posting stuff last year before the MS video stopped rolling. Will people still start their articles with "Craig" from last year? You know they will... you know these are already half written.
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Its what is being discussed in the thread. I didn't bring it up. Its pretty ridiculous that saying it was a top franchise and that brings greater scrutiny and expectations is somehow some big attack on it. You are overreacting and responding like I am saying "343 is trash and all their games will always be trash".

And yet the reaction was wildly different right from the start of 343 releasing Halos. Did everyone get old in the two years between Bungie and 343?

No the negative articles aren't prewritten but yes they will reference the poor reception from last year. What I am sure of is people say its being unfairly no matter what they show or how its treated. I would guess you were saying it was unfair last year.
 
Kerosene31 said:
LOL you b****ed endlessly on these games. You're the one obsessed with Halo, not me.

The game will be good or not, but people will blast it no matter what. Meanwhile there's a whole generation of younger gamers who see Halo and Star Wars as those things their dads love. It also drags out all the PS fanboys out of the woodwork to attack it (not saying that's you).

You never answered my question - do video game writers already have a draft of the Halo article written already? Yes or no? There were people posting stuff last year before the MS video stopped rolling. Will people still start their articles with "Craig" from last year? You know they will... you know these are already half written.
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People complain no matter what. But there are reasonable critics, & fanboyism/BS hate. Most gamers can tell the difference.

As far as game writers, they are getting more rubbish every day, like movie critics & "journalists". Objective reporting was a thing of the past. It's now about clickbait, generating outrage, drama controversy, or pushing/attacking political & ideological agenda, like complaining about Far cry 5 not making gun-loving Montana NPC looks bad, or complaint about lack of diversity in a game ( I think kingdom comes) base in 17th century Europe., or that Ghost of Tsushima was culturally appropriating Japanese, & offend for Japanese, who actually love the game.
 
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starseeker said:
People complain no matter what. But there are reasonable critics, & fanboyism/BS hate. Most gamers can tell the difference.

As far as game writers, they are getting more rubbish every day, like movie critics & "journalists". Objective reporting was a thing of the past. It's now about clickbait, generating outrage, drama controversy, or pushing/attacking political & ideological agenda, like complaining about Far cry 5 not making gun-loving Montana NPC looks bad, or complaint about lack of diversity in a game ( I think kingdom comes) base in 17th century Europe., or that Ghost of Tsushima was culturally appropriating Japanese, & offend for Japanese, who actually love the game.
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The "gamer justice warrior" thing is completely different. Most people really don't care what those kinds of people think.
 
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yankeessuck said:
Its what is being discussed in the thread. I didn't bring it up. Its pretty ridiculous that saying it was a top franchise and that brings greater scrutiny and expectations is somehow some big attack on it. You are overreacting and responding like I am saying "343 is trash and all their games will always be trash".

And yet the reaction was wildly different right from the start of 343 releasing Halos. Did everyone get old in the two years between Bungie and 343?

No the negative articles aren't prewritten but yes they will reference the poor reception from last year. What I am sure of is people say its being unfairly no matter what they show or how its treated. I would guess you were saying it was unfair last year.
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So besides the still shots of the alpha Craig and missing grass, you didn’t like the game play they had shown? I saw zero complaints about the actual game play.
 
starseeker said:
JapStrawman. Misrepresent someone's argument, & argue against the misrepresented point.

NO ONE said we assume EVERYONE is lying all the time. People suspect it's a convenience EXCUSE base on the deductions, like other studiso do not have this massive issue with covid, or that 343 got big S backlash & MEME to death after last year E3. You do not have to agree with the deduction, but do not misrepresent.

Also, Trust cannot be demanded, It has to be earned. Didn't CDProjeckt RED claimed Cyberpunk was running well on last-gen consoles.


Also to be clear, my comment was not for Santa Monica, just 343.
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Animated GIF
 
Hedon said:
So besides the still shots of the alpha Craig and missing grass, you didn’t like the game play they had shown? I saw zero complaints about the actual game play.
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Felt pretty basic but it was fine. I think they should have went with a trailer instead of a demo.
 
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Hedon said:
Oh I know. Like I said above. It’s Sony so Covid must be true. It’s MS so Covid is a lie.
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I never made this claim. You are misrepresenting me. I did not know many details about the next GoW so I did not make an assessment on how significant is covid impact. We do not know how long is the delay since they never committed to a release date. If they said GoW will be delay one year due to Covid, I call it BS as well, but I seriously do not know how long is the expected delay.

We DO know Halo intended to be released during launched windows but push back to at least sept, which is almost a year. Hence I think the covid isn't the main reason for the delay.

Also saying someone make a nonsequential white lie isn't a big deal, people, including me do this all the time. I can have a bad day, & someone causally ask, how is your day. I said "great", white lie to move on. "Why are you late?". "Oh, I forgot my phone, & went back to pick it up", sure sound better than I played video game & forgot the time.
 
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starseeker said:
I never made this claim. You are misrepresenting me. I did not know many details about the next GoW so I did not make an assessment on how significant is covid impact. We do not know how long is the delay since they never committed to a release date. If they said GoW will be delay one year due to Covid, I call it BS as well, but I seriously do not know how long is the expected delay.

We DO know Halo intended to be released during launched windows but push back to at least sept, which is almost a year. Hence I think the covid isn't the main reason for the delay.

Also saying someone make a nonsequential white lie isn't a big deal, people, including me do this all the time. I can have a bad day, & someone causally ask, how is your day. I said "great", white lie to move on. "Why are you late?". "Oh, I forgot my phone, & went back to pick it up", sure sound better than I played video game & forgot the time.
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True. It actually annoys me when people ask how my day is or how I am at work (employees) EVERY SINGLE DAY. I say FINE!
 
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