Let's talk religion!

Swede

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Ouch. I just returned after being gone for a few months, and Hedon directed me here. Sad...

I'm a firm believer in God and the afterlife, though, so I'm confident that it is not "game over" for him at all. I think he felt greatly relieved to be rid of his deteriorating monkey suit. He's much happier now than he was before.

I'm glad we were able to make his last years here a little better. The worst is over, Hazard. Happy trails.
You a follower of the Christ?
 
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Swede

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If he is or not please be respectful within this thread
Am I not? There's more religions with a God, I could've asked if he was jewish or a muslim of course. I'm just curious since I didn't expect people here to be religious that's all.
It's a wonderful idea and most certainly give comfort in instances like this.
 
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Andy

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You a follower of the Christ?

Mmm... that's a tough question. I admire Jesus. I have a lot of respect for Christianity. I have two rows of books on Christianity. I've thought and read about it quite a lot. I admire the heck out of some Christian authors and philosophers, and I've learned a ton from them. Some of my family members are Christians, and they're some of the best people I know. Friends, too. I live in a part of the country where religion is still an active force, not sidelined into irrelevancy the way it has been throughout the larger cities, and I see the difference it makes.

But no, I don't think I could call myself a Christian, not in the traditional sense anyhow. There are too many places where I part ways with traditional Christian belief.
 
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Swede

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Mmm... that's a tough question. I admire Jesus. I have a lot of respect for Christianity. I have two rows of books on Christianity. I've thought and read about it quite a lot. I admire the heck out of some Christian authors and philosophers, and I've learned a ton from them. Some of my family members are Christians, and they're some of the best people I know. Friends, too. I live in a part of the country where religion is still an active force, not sidelined into irrelevancy the way it has been throughout the larger cities, and I see the difference it makes.

But no, I don't think I could call myself a Christian, not in the traditional sense anyhow. There are too many places where I part ways with traditional Christian belief.
What's your thoughts on psychedelics and the things people see when on the trips? Other dimensions, angels or just part of brain being fried?
 

Andy

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What's your thoughts on psychedelics and the things people see when on the trips? Other dimensions, angels or just part of brain being fried?

Like DMT and ayuhausca? I don't have any personal experience, but from what I've heard, they can initiate mystical experiences that can be very transformative for the person. It creates similar effects to what you hear from some advanced spiritual people -- loss of ego, expansion of consciousness, a feeling of merging with everything, greater perspective and wisdom.

I'm not personally sold on it, though. For one, it's a powerful drug, so anything that happens under its influence ... how do you trust that, when you get back to non-drugged awareness? And how do you bring that experience back to normal awareness, since memory is state-dependent (meaning, your memory of the experience is dependent on being in that drugged state)?

I'm suspicious of spiritual shortcuts, and this seems like one. Easy path to enlightenment? Yeah, I don't know. I think it's better to work through normal channels, rather than take shortcuts.

I'm also suspicious of "special effects" spirituality, by which I mean a type of spirituality that emphasizes dramatic breakthroughs, peak experiences, big "Wows." It gets the headlines, which in itself makes me suspicious. I have more trust in let's say ordinary, commonplace spirituality. You know, introspecting, trying to grow as a person, learn more, open up, see behind the veil as best you can, work on your character, try to gain in wisdom. None of that is flashy or exciting, and it comes slowly, bit by bit, not in some big rush. But it's the tried and true method, rather than something new and flashy, and I trust it more.

So, I wouldn't pursue the drugs myself. Still, some people do report big changes from it, and I'm no expert in it.
 
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tumorman

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Lackadaisical agnostic. Grew up in a very firmly Christian household. I never was really into religion all that much, even young.

I'm not an outright atheist as I really just don't know what's out there, so I try to live my life with a solid moral foundation.
 

Swede

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Like DMT and ayuhausca? I don't have any personal experience, but from what I've heard, they can initiate mystical experiences that can be very transformative for the person. It creates similar effects to what you hear from some advanced spiritual people -- loss of ego, expansion of consciousness, a feeling of merging with everything, greater perspective and wisdom.

I'm not personally sold on it, though. For one, it's a powerful drug, so anything that happens under its influence ... how do you trust that, when you get back to non-drugged awareness? And how do you bring that experience back to normal awareness, since memory is state-dependent (meaning, your memory of the experience is dependent on being in that drugged state)?

And then there's the issue of integration. How well is that sort of experience integrated? The person has a pre-set level of maturity and understanding. It's not like the drug permanently transforms them. It just gives them an additional experience layered on top of all their old stuff. How does that fit? Is the individual able to take the experience and make use of it, or is it so alien to the person's basic adjustment that any gains are basically lost within a few months?

I'm also suspicious of spiritual shortcuts. Easy path to enlightenment? Yeah, I don't know. I think it's better to work through normal channels, rather than take shortcuts.

I'm also suspicious of "special effects" spirituality, by which I mean a type of spirituality that emphasizes dramatic breakthroughs, peak experiences, big "Wows." It gets the headlines, which in itself makes me suspicious. I have more trust in let's say ordinary, commonplace spirituality. You know, introspecting, trying to grow as a person, learn more, open up, see behind the veil as best you can, work on your character, try to gain in wisdom. None of that is flashy or exciting, and it comes slowly, bit by bit, not in some big rush. But it's the tried and true method, rather than something new and flashy, and I trust it more.

So, I wouldn't pursue the drugs myself. Still, some people do report big changes from it, and I'm no expert in it.
Yeah, that's pretty much how I feel about it too... There's some interesting stuff to read about peoples experience from it though, and there's some literature regarding the use of it in old religions and even theories regarding it's use in still living religions beginnings, judaism for one (fruit of knowledge = mushroom or similar).
I've not tried it, but I'm interested in a more sober scientific approach to it than the new age mumbo jumbo or the failure of scientists to try to make something more of it than brain farts.
 
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Swede

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Lackadaisical agnostic. Grew up in a very firmly Christian household. I never was really into religion all that much, even young.

I'm not an outright atheist as I really just don't know what's out there, so I try to live my life with a solid moral foundation.
When you think about other people having their own consciousness and seeing things from inside their own head with their own eyes just like you, and that billions before you have had the same experience of it with billions more in the future having it.... Can you sort that into something logical?
 

tumorman

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When you think about other people having their own consciousness and seeing things from inside their own head with their own eyes just like you, and that billions before you have had the same experience of it with billions more in the future having it.... Can you sort that into something logical?
What you just said is exactly how I feel. It's hard for me to comprehend "X religion is better" because that's what they all think while being ignorant of others beliefs. There's no simple solution to any of this, it's beyond our comprehension. The only real similarities between them all is "be good" and that's what I try to be.
 
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Swede

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When I grew up, almost every amerikan tv show had the families pray to Jesus at the table before eating dinner, today I can't say when I last saw this.
I've never, ever in my whole life witnessed this prayer thing irl here, I believe it's pretty much only truly religious sect members that do that here.

Do people still thank Jesus at dinner in amerika?
 
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tumorman

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When I grew up, almost every amerikan tv show had the families pray to Jesus at the table before eating dinner, today I can't say when I last saw this.
I've never, ever in my whole life witnessed this prayer thing irl here, I believe it's pretty much only truly religious sect members that do that here.

Do people still thank Jesus at dinner in amerika?
Mine dl
 

lowdru2k

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I got nothing against religious people unless they try to force their beliefs on others. I’ve always been interested in all religions history and ancient history. My thing is who’s right and who’s wrong so I keep an open mind on the subject. I think I believe there is a higher power in our universe, but what that higher power is I think we have yet to figure it out.
 

Rollins

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What's your thoughts on psychedelics and the things people see when on the trips? Other dimensions, angels or just part of brain being fried?

So personally I’m a ‘recovering Catholic.’ Like Andy, I’m a big fan of Jesus himself, and have read all I can about him. Most specifically, there aren’t many directly quotes of his in the Bible, so I have been studying a book on that more recently.

I started getting into Eastern systems way back in high school, and have tried to make sense of commonalities between what Buddha, Lao Zi, Jesus, and many others have taught.

I’ve read every major book, and still have to revisit the Bhagavad Gita after I’m done with the ‘Jesus quotes’ book.

And when I lived in Seattle, I spent time with Native American medicine people, did several intense sweat lodges, and 2 vision quests (5 days in the woods in total isolation with no materials except clothes and something to sleep on. No food, only water, and it’s required to stay in a circle about 10 feet across the entire time, except to use the ‘bathroom.’). I had some trippy experiences without any drugs!

That being said, in all that I’ve never tried psychedelics, but I have friends that swear by them. I’ve spent literally thousands of hours in meditation, so I’ve never felt the need, but according to some of them, they were able to experience things that they couldn’t through intense meditation.
One guy told me ayahuasca saved his life. One experience and he was forever shifted. I think if used correctly, for some people really struggling, they can be miraculous.


The thought of it is interesting for me, but in observing some of my friends over time, I noticed a few seemed to lose touch with ‘normal’ living. Plus I never wanted to rely on a substance to have an experience like that.

All that being said, I have my own opinions, but I absolutely respect anyone’s belief system.
 
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GeorgeSoros

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It is amazing just to look back at the conversations around religion in late 90s and early 00s back when it was still edgy to be an ashiest or "agnostic". And now in the past couple of years, with the emergence of social media ghettos, people are just grouping together with like minded people instead of trying to influence others with different religious beliefs using ridicule or shame. Instead there is more interdenominational infighting among Christians and probably even more polarizing views behind the scenes but people are able to act out those feelings among likeminded people instead of expressing it towards people of different faiths.
 
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TFX

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I grew up in a Christian household and considered myself one, even an evangelical, until I was 25. Then I did this little thought experiment and became a deist overnight and it was this multi-day, like, mental explosion. I agree with a lot what Christ had to say about humility and serving all and etc., etc., so I'm more of a Jefferson Bible guy, but organized religion is rubbish and I consider myself an agnostic atheist these days.
 
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Tate

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I've always been curious as to why different religions had such similar accounts. I've never really sat down and took a good look at the idea that it's all derived from ancient Sumeria which texts points more towards a ancient highly advanced not-of-earth civilization.

 
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