Lockhart is still on its way

Rollins

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Things are looking real bad for Xbox V's future.
Why? The 360 had different skus when it launched.

It’ll be like it is now: an S and an X. If you want the best, you pay extra.

Plus it’s also looking like Lockhart might use help from XCloud, which could be interesting.

Dealer summed it up pretty well on one of his recent YT vids:


Dealer - Gaming
“I feel like i explained it well, but some didn't hear or didn't watch lol Games on PC today leverage and or run on SSDs, super fast Ram, big power and massive core counts. One version of a game running on Xbox one S may not live by the same rules as the high end skus, for instance movement or map speed, etc, may be much different. Its already been done. Maybe the low end SKU features less CPU load with not only less AI active, but less complex intelligent AI in general (Kinda like the nemesis system from Middle Earth Shadow of Mordor. This system featured advanced AI that the Xbox 360 version of the game simply didn't have). Destruction, animation and so much more are ALL scaled on PC today in order to allow low end hardware to run more games. Either way, i don't expect everyone to agree but until Scarlett is being "held back." I’ll continue to compare it to PC scale-ability as even Matt Booty did in this video. Be excited, the xbox scarlett and PS5 will both be badass consoles.”
 
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JinCA

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Why? The 360 had different skus when it launched.

It’ll be like it is now: an S and an X. If you want the best, you pay extra.

Plus it’s also looking like Lockhart might use help from XCloud, which could be interesting.

Dealer summed it up pretty well on one of his recent YT vids:


Dealer - Gaming
“I feel like i explained it well, but some didn't hear or didn't watch lol Games on PC today leverage and or run on SSDs, super fast Ram, big power and massive core counts. One version of a game running on Xbox one S may not live by the same rules as the high end skus, for instance movement or map speed, etc, may be much different. Its already been done. Maybe the low end SKU features less CPU load with not only less AI active, but less complex intelligent AI in general (Kinda like the nemesis system from Middle Earth Shadow of Mordor. This system featured advanced AI that the Xbox 360 version of the game simply didn't have). Destruction, animation and so much more are ALL scaled on PC today in order to allow low end hardware to run more games. Either way, i don't expect everyone to agree but until Scarlett is being "held back." I’ll continue to compare it to PC scale-ability as even Matt Booty did in this video. Be excited, the xbox scarlett and PS5 will both be badass consoles.”
The only difference between them was one had an HDD and one didn't, it wasn't a much weaker machine, who's going to jump to next gen with a machine that really isn't next gen? This really does sound like something that's being way overthought. Some people say it's for people with 1080p tv's, they don't even sell 1080p tv's anymore and haven't for a few years so why go through all of the cost of manufacturing two machines for that? Here is a post from a dev over on resetera giving his thoughts on it, I won't pretend I've ever even heard of his studio but he is verified over there.


As a developer I'll tell you why I absolutely hate the idea of Lockhart.

When you go into the next generation of any console, it is always a premium buy-in. Some are ready day one to pay whatever price for next gen, whether that's $399 or $599.

Let's talk about $599. The PS3 did not launch at $599. It launched at $499, with a SKU that was the same base hardware but lesser hard drive space, no extra media slots, and a few other extras that didn't make the cut. Growth of the PS3 didn't start happening until a new $499 SKU was introduced that had more limited backwards compatibility and features.

Think about that for a minute: why would sales growth occur at $499 when the system launched at $499 to begin with? Because the new $499 system wasn't marketed as an "inferior" step down from the $599 version. It was the new PS3 SKU going forward. And because of that, people perceived the price at $499. Then we had the $399 PS3, and so on.

Microsoft wants it all, day one. They want the premium super hardware buyers. They want the soccer moms. They want the kids who only get one big gift per year. They want the busy traveler that can only game in the cloud. They want the subscription junkie that only plays through Game Pass. They think they can get there with two SKUs: one super premium console that's maybe $499 and one lesser console for $399. The market won't see the $399 console because again, the next gen buy-in at launch is ALWAYS PREMIUM. The perception will be the high end SKU is the true next gen console, and it won't be until that one declines in price that you'll see a bigger audience coming into the Xbox ecosystem.

The ramifications for a lesser SKU are huge, just like the Xbox Core/Arcade. You're already seeing that now with Xbox One X/S- some recent games like the Outer Worlds look worse on XB1X than PS4 Pro because they're upscaled ports of XB1S. You will see a LOT of that if there are two SKUs on the market, guaranteed. The premium Xbox will be a worse console because of the existence of Lockhart. Meanwhile, the PS5 has nothing other than itself to scale for, and that's huge.

But wait you say, Apple does this with the iPhone Pro and the standard colorful iPhones! You cannot bring the phone market into the console one. The comparison makes no sense. Eventually, at some point, you will need a new phone. You need it to basically live in this day and age. Sony and MS already have an uphill battle marketing and selling next gen because of the PS4 Pro and XB1X. It will be more difficult showing off amazing looking games because we're already playing amazing looking games. They have to get there with features, with quality of life features, with things that will cause this next gen to be a much slower start than I think this gen was. When your main selling point is less features at a lower price with Lockhart, you have a severe problem.

I hope they don't do this. This feels like marketing and executives meddling in the video game space. It feels aimless and stupid.
 

VaLLiancE

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Why? The 360 had different skus when it launched.

It’ll be like it is now: an S and an X. If you want the best, you pay extra.

Plus it’s also looking like Lockhart might use help from XCloud, which could be interesting.

Dealer summed it up pretty well on one of his recent YT vids:


Dealer - Gaming
“I feel like i explained it well, but some didn't hear or didn't watch lol Games on PC today leverage and or run on SSDs, super fast Ram, big power and massive core counts. One version of a game running on Xbox one S may not live by the same rules as the high end skus, for instance movement or map speed, etc, may be much different. Its already been done. Maybe the low end SKU features less CPU load with not only less AI active, but less complex intelligent AI in general (Kinda like the nemesis system from Middle Earth Shadow of Mordor. This system featured advanced AI that the Xbox 360 version of the game simply didn't have). Destruction, animation and so much more are ALL scaled on PC today in order to allow low end hardware to run more games. Either way, i don't expect everyone to agree but until Scarlett is being "held back." I’ll continue to compare it to PC scale-ability as even Matt Booty did in this video. Be excited, the xbox scarlett and PS5 will both be badass consoles.”
They need to focus all resources on one machine.

Dealer is crap gamer 2.0

I want to be wrong but Xbox is in major trouble vs PS next gen.
The sales gap will be even bigger.

Those who kicked themselves this gen by going with xbo over PS4 need to be very careful with there next gen purchase decision.
 

karmakid

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Why? The 360 had different skus when it launched.

It’ll be like it is now: an S and an X. If you want the best, you pay extra.

Plus it’s also looking like Lockhart might use help from XCloud, which could be interesting.

Dealer summed it up pretty well on one of his recent YT vids:


Dealer - Gaming
“I feel like i explained it well, but some didn't hear or didn't watch lol Games on PC today leverage and or run on SSDs, super fast Ram, big power and massive core counts. One version of a game running on Xbox one S may not live by the same rules as the high end skus, for instance movement or map speed, etc, may be much different. Its already been done. Maybe the low end SKU features less CPU load with not only less AI active, but less complex intelligent AI in general (Kinda like the nemesis system from Middle Earth Shadow of Mordor. This system featured advanced AI that the Xbox 360 version of the game simply didn't have). Destruction, animation and so much more are ALL scaled on PC today in order to allow low end hardware to run more games. Either way, i don't expect everyone to agree but until Scarlett is being "held back." I’ll continue to compare it to PC scale-ability as even Matt Booty did in this video. Be excited, the xbox scarlett and PS5 will both be badass consoles.”
Weren’t there a quite few games on the 360 that required a hard drive, initially you could use a thumb drive for some but that was a whole nother step, why?


The only difference between them was one had an HDD and one didn't, it wasn't a much weaker machine, who's going to jump to next gen with a machine that really isn't next gen? This really does sound like something that's being way overthought. Some people say it's for people with 1080p tv's, they don't even sell 1080p tv's anymore and haven't for a few years so why go through all of the cost of manufacturing two machines for that? Here is a post from a dev over on resetera giving his thoughts on it, I won't pretend I've ever even heard of his studio but he is verified over there.

They still sell 720p TVs and monitors are bestbuy and amazon.
 
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JinCA

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Weren’t there a quite few games on the 360 that required a hard drive, initially you could use a thumb drive for some but that was a whole nother step, why?




They still sell 720p TVs and monitors are bestbuy and amazon.
Monitors maybe but go through the TV section at BestBuy and you'll be hard pressed to find anything under 4K.
 
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JinCA

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They need to focus all resources on one machine.

Dealer is crap gamer 2.0

I want to be wrong but Xbox is in major trouble vs PS next gen.
The sales gap will be even bigger.

Those who kicked themselves this gen by going with xbo over PS4 need to be very careful with there next gen purchase decision.
They've been saying again that they don't plan on leaving older consoles behind, so if they are going to keep up cross-gen for a long time what's the point of two next gen sku's? I'm sure 3rd parties are going to love having to try to optimize their games for 4 different xbox consoles.
 

VaLLiancE

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They've been saying again that they don't plan on leaving older consoles behind, so if they are going to keep up cross-gen for a long time what's the point of two next gen sku's? I'm sure 3rd parties are going to love having to try to optimize their games for 4 different xbox consoles.
They won't like doing it and the consumer will be confused.
 
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Rollins

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They won't like doing it and the consumer will be confused.
Klobrille’s post that I just posted sums up MS’s approach perfectly. At the end of the day there will be 2 choices of Xbox skus for next gen.

Just 2.

Not all that confusing.

And this:

 

pravus

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The only difference between them was one had an HDD and one didn't, it wasn't a much weaker machine, who's going to jump to next gen with a machine that really isn't next gen? This really does sound like something that's being way overthought. Some people say it's for people with 1080p tv's, they don't even sell 1080p tv's anymore and haven't for a few years so why go through all of the cost of manufacturing two machines for that? Here is a post from a dev over on resetera giving his thoughts on it, I won't pretend I've ever even heard of his studio but he is verified over there.

"as a developer"... Then proceeds to just spew random tidbits with no actual argument to hold it to.

Yeah, that's still that same ass guy who whipped up the whole 'parity clause' disinformation campaign on gaf and tried to resurrect it several times afterwards even when there were tons of games coming out that were on PS4 prior.

Not to mention the guy takes console wars so strongly he even put some sick Xbox burns in his game... the game which I might add looks like it could run on PS1. Basically a guy who's game looks like flash art is telling you game development is going to be held back because a console will run the same games at a lower resolution than others and people will put stock into his word because he said he's a developer.

He's got a particular angle, just sayin.
 

Rollins

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This is from Tom Warren’s post on Era:


#2133

Eh, not really. After all, I (and others) originally reported it was getting cut. Not surprised people didn't think it was back on again. Once dev kit specs leak, I'll tell the tale of why Lockhart is really a thing.
 

eVo7

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Klobrille’s post that I just posted sums up MS’s approach perfectly. At the end of the day there will be 2 choices of Xbox skus for next gen.

Just 2.

Not all that confusing.

And this:

If that holds any truth then there is literally 0 better ecosystems to be in than Microsofts.
 
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JinCA

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If that holds any truth then there is literally 0 better ecosystems to be in than Microsofts.
That's debatable, if you are a GP fan that's fine but there is more to it than that.
 

JinCA

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If they scale back that console as much as has been said it's going to be more than lowering the res and calling it a day, a weaker CPU, GPU, less/slower memory etc is going to cause more than just the res to be lowered.

Again MS keeps saying they aren't leaving the other consoles behind, to me that just seems like PR speak for "well have cross-gen games for a year or two" which is actually quite normal when a generation changes but if they really planned on supporting the X1S and X1X for a long time what is the point of a weak next gen machine? either keep your console you already own or upgrade to the premium one. I could see them launching a cheaper all digital sku in a few years where they can lower the price more than the cost of the disc drive but at launch it just seems silly. Also yes it is confusing to the mom's who are going to be buying something for their kids for xmas etc, there is a reason people in marketing try to keep things as simple as possible.
 

Rollins

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That's debatable, if you are a GP fan that's fine but there is more to it than that.
But from a strictly business point of view, wouldn’t you agree that the more people you make your games available to, the better off you’ll be? I mean as far as the causal gamer goes.

I think we’ll see most if not all of Sony’s games somehow find their way onto PC in the next few years, simply because they’ll make more money with a broader audience.

Then the streaming/mobile market....things are going to change a lot.
 
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JinCA

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But from a strictly business point of view, wouldn’t you agree that the more people you make your games available to, the better off you’ll be? I mean as far as the causal gamer goes.

I think we’ll see most if not all of Sony’s games somehow find their way onto PC in the next few years, simply because they’ll make more money with a broader audience.

Then the streaming/mobile market....things are going to change a lot.
Streaming and mobile are a bit of a pipe dream, they've been pushing for this for years and honestly 5G isn't going to be the answer for that, the signal doesn't travel very far and it doesn't go through walls well either so unless you plan on playing outside right by a tower you are kind of screwed. Streaming at home makes little sense, you can have a console under your tv that gives you a reliable experience or a streaming one that goes up and down in quality. That's why I've never thought of PS Now as an interesting service. Stadia is already flopping and Xcloud seems to be having some issues during this testing phase as well which to be fair should be expected because it is a test phase. I don't get the push for all of this stuff, there is nothing wrong with having a piece of hardware in your home.

Sony could end up releasing games on PC at some point, I'm not really for it but it's not because I don't want other people to be able to play their games I just want them to keep giving people a reason to buy their hardware. If anything they should at least make PC wait a year or so before a release happens.

As far as casuals, if you are already going to keep making games for the cheaper less powerful consoles they'll be fine playing on that, they won't bother upgrading to even an entry level "next gen" machine if they can keep playing the same games on a console they already own.
 
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VaLLiancE

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Klobrille’s post that I just posted sums up MS’s approach perfectly. At the end of the day there will be 2 choices of Xbox skus for next gen.

Just 2.

Not all that confusing.

And this:

No that is how MS wants it to go but they don't dictate it as they are in last place yet another generation.

Console sales dictate software exclusively and sales.
 

VaLLiancE

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But from a strictly business point of view, wouldn’t you agree that the more people you make your games available to, the better off you’ll be? I mean as far as the causal gamer goes.

I think we’ll see most if not all of Sony’s games somehow find their way onto PC in the next few years, simply because they’ll make more money with a broader audience.

Then the streaming/mobile market....things are going to change a lot.
Not as far as your brand goes.
GameASS is the death of MS console hardware.
 

eVo7

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That's debatable, if you are a GP fan that's fine but there is more to it than that.
It is debatable but I will list some reasons,

Being able to pretty much do anything from a mobile phone, join parties, play games from xcloud or from console streaming, able to check achievements, check/watch videos uploaded to XBL, Xbox APP on PC, able to stream to PC from console, Xbox play anywhere games PC/Xbox, lots and lots of community features that can be accessed from PC, Mobile phone, Xbox, Backwards compatibility, etc etc

You can literally play Xbox and be involved with anything Xbox anywhere.
 
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Rollins

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It is debatable but I will list some reasons,

Being able to pretty much do anything from a mobile phone, join parties, play games from xcloud or from console streaming, able to check achievements, check/watch videos uploaded to XBL, Xbox APP on PC, able to stream to PC from console, Xbox play anywhere games PC/Xbox, lots and lots of community features that can be accessed from PC, Mobile phone, Xbox, Backwards compatibility, etc etc

You can literally play Xbox and be involved with anything Xbox anywhere.
Exactly. Moving forward this is how the landscape is going to change. Ecosystem is going to be ‘it.’ Consoles will be an option (which I will still choose), but they won’t be a necessity.
 
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