Major Nelson speaks about Native 1080p 60fps...

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Mission Impossible: getting P$ fan boys to comprehend how the x1 images on bf4 look superior to PS4 images despite the lower native resolution and 50% less POOWAAAAAH without their heads exploding
 
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I can understand that they leave the resolution to devs, but the dev's for CoD choosing 720p over 1080p is not something i'd believe. There clearly is something wrong. It's flat out ridiculous that a simple looking game like CoD can't even be 1080p. MS is only partly being honest here. I understand it though, I don't expect them to admit that some development tools are behind, like Gies said. But it sure seems to be the case, whether we're barely going to see the difference thanks to a good upscaler doesn't matter...1080p for CoD should be a given. I'd say that BF4 is another story and I can understand that, more than CoD.
 
Hoping for 1080p, the standard res of most TVs nowadays, is expecting too much? No. Hoping for an Xbox One game to match the res of the PS4 version, that apparently is expecting too much.
Then get a Ps4 if it means all that much to ya mate! I dont care. I'm getting both with the XO first. I could give f*** all about a few pixels. Got better things to do with my time than to count pixels.
 
Then get a Ps4 if it means all that much to ya mate! I dont care. I'm getting both with the XO first. I could give f*** all about a few pixels. Got better things to do with my time than to count pixels.

Of course, who can count to 1,152,000 anyway? ;) I just bummed, that's all.
 
Hoping for 1080p, the standard res of most TVs nowadays, is expecting too much? No. Hoping for an Xbox One game to match the res of the PS4 version, that apparently is expecting too much.
You can't compare video, especially TV, which is almost never 1080p, almost all tv is 720p, and is terribly compressed, to reactive and rendered instantly video games. It's a comparison that doesn't work.

Having said that, as of right now, there's one game that will most likely be crisper on the PS4 than what will be on the X1, CoD. BF4 is a wash at best. The X1 version won't look worse than what we've seen. It will look same or better. What it is now aesthetically looks sharper than the PS4 version.

It's not like the X1 can't do 1080p. They have Forza 5. NBA 2K14 is 1080p/60 on both. Ryse is 900p. The X1 is capable. Will designers learn to take advantage of what it has to offer, that remains to be seen. So far, some aren't and some are. It's a bit disappoint about CoD. But I still want to see the comparisons. But this is only one game that there may be a noticeable difference I'm quality. Let's hope, for the gaming industry as a whole, that this is just some growing pains with a developer.
 
You can't compare video, especially TV, which is almost never 1080p, almost all tv is 720p, and is terribly compressed, to reactive and rendered instantly video games. It's a comparison that doesn't work.

Having said that, as of right now, there's one game that will most likely be crisper on the PS4 than what will be on the X1, CoD. BF4 is a wash at best. The X1 version won't look worse than what we've seen. It will look same or better. What it is now aesthetically looks sharper than the PS4 version.

It's not like the X1 can't do 1080p. They have Forza 5. NBA 2K14 is 1080p/60 on both. Ryse is 900p. The X1 is capable. Will designers learn to take advantage of what it has to offer, that remains to be seen. So far, some aren't and some are. It's a bit disappoint about CoD. But I still want to see the comparisons. But this is only one game that there may be a noticeable difference I'm quality. Let's hope, for the gaming industry as a whole, that this is just some growing pains with a developer.

I hear what you are saying, and I wasn't comparing games to video, so sorry if I was unclear. My point is, I'd like games to play at the same resolution as my tv, natively, without scaling.

I'm hoping MS turns this around, but if AC4, or, heaven forbid, Destiny have the same differences, it will be really bad.
 
I am in the camp that MS's evolving drivers and nonstandard design maybe more to blame than anything, and in the future XBO will prove more balanced than it is showing now. PS4s major advantage is that it is lock step with PC development as far as familiarity and this is making it much easier for devs to hit the ground running. I also think that means XBO has more potential to grow and PS4 less, although I wouldn't argue the PS4 isn't more powerful - it is. I would just argue to what degree and that I don't think its as large a gap as these launch releases and all the internet rhetoric indicate.

That said the tables have somewhat turned this gen and MS has the more difficult hardware to work with. The questions will be how much do devs want to go out of their way to work with more difficult hardware. Some may, some may not and as more time passes the learning curve will come down. But for the immediate future DF gives a good perspective on this.

Microsoft countered by suggesting that those targets could be split between DDR3 and ESRAM, and pushed its own, more memory-efficient, compressed render target formats - similar to the ones utilised on Xbox 360 to great success.In the light of recent events, the question is, will those formats actually be utilised if they can't be easily supported on PC or PlayStation 4? More pertinently, faced with crushing deadlines for next-gen launch titles, isn't lowering the size of Xbox One render targets the much easier option?
 
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You can't compare video, especially TV, which is almost never 1080p, almost all tv is 720p, and is terribly compressed, to reactive and rendered instantly video games. It's a comparison that doesn't work.

Having said that, as of right now, there's one game that will most likely be crisper on the PS4 than what will be on the X1, CoD. BF4 is a wash at best. The X1 version won't look worse than what we've seen. It will look same or better. What it is now aesthetically looks sharper than the PS4 version.

It's not like the X1 can't do 1080p. They have Forza 5. NBA 2K14 is 1080p/60 on both. Ryse is 900p. The X1 is capable. Will designers learn to take advantage of what it has to offer, that remains to be seen. So far, some aren't and some are. It's a bit disappoint about CoD. But I still want to see the comparisons. But this is only one game that there may be a noticeable difference I'm quality. Let's hope, for the gaming industry as a whole, that this is just some growing pains with a developer.

How is it that no one is mentioning how the unremarkable XO still held its own when compared to the powerful PS4? How is it that the BF4 version on XO looks better, or more visually pleasing? With the weaker specs, that is one HELL OF AN ACCOMPLISHMENT! The XO just proved that better specs mean f*** all if you don't know how to capitalize on them. I'm betting Microsoft wins some kind of award for hardware design/software design.

Thats not being a fanboy at all. Its a great accomplishment!
 
I hear what you are saying, and I wasn't comparing games to video, so sorry if I was unclear. My point is, I'd like games to play at the same resolution as my tv, natively, without scaling.

I'm hoping MS turns this around, but if AC4, or, heaven forbid, Destiny have the same differences, it will be really bad.
So far, the PS4 has one more game with native 1080p, three to two, if memory serves, than the X1. The panic that one game is giving is a bit over the top. Disappointing about CoD, yes, end of the world, absolutely not. And I'm still eager to see the comparisons if CoD.
 
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The thing is, while MS tools might mature and third parties become more accustomed to it..the same will happen for the PS4.
It won't be a game of catch up till they are neck and neck. Unless the PS4 hits some hypothetical wall its power can only grow.

Like it or not, Sony has a HUGE stable of 1st party and loyal 3rd party guys who spend every day focused on Sony hardware. Instead of figure out ways to work magic with the PS3 they have a box of raw, easy to dev. on harware that's pushing 1080 out the gate.
I can only imagine what Naughty Dog, Sucker Punch, Santa Monica etc.. produce in this coming years.

In the end, Ill have both consoles in the coming weeks (I have a 12 year old who thinks gaming is CoD, trick shots and screaming at people online...so an Xbone is MANDATORY lol)
But as it stands Sony has become the third party box...and still the box pushing out the most exclusive titles yearly due to its abundant collection of first party devs. (Not to mention its BRILLIANT move to secure loyal indies in a gaming climate were dev cost limit originality) And THANK GOD for Sony willing to take a chance and put out games that aren't FPS/TPS/AnotherZombieGame.. like Demon Souls, Valkyria Chronicles, 3D Dot, Heavy Rain etc..

I know Ryse, Titanfall and the slew of quality next gen sequels will keep the Xbone strong but its worrisome knowing that Sony is coming out the gates swing for the fences this early with hardware power and outstanding PR..not to mention, like I stated, heavy hitters in the dugout ready to step up in 2014, a slew of indies, 3rd parties sleepwalking through making games 1080/900 & 60FPS and willingness to put out original ideas..this won't be a walk in then park like 2006.
 
No, but once they found out that it was and that their competitor's version was 1080p, why did they let it stand? And after reaping the benefits of having an easy to develop for machine last generation, why did they deviate this coming generation? That is the mind boggling thing here.
I don't know, and while PS4 is easier to dev for that does not mean the X1 is harder to dev for than the 360. PS4 went a route where dev'ing doesn't differ much from PC development, X1 is obviously harder than that but I don't think that makes it PS3 hard.
 
And MS doesn't have heavy hitters?

Quantum Break
Halo 5
Sunset Overdrive
Fable Legends

and anything new that their other teams have?
 
Here is an article that is a fair summary of what I have been going through with XB1:

http://www.videogamer.com/features/..._problem_is_the_biggest_deal-breaker_yet.html

But again all people think about is the console lacking power and not thinking it could be a hardware thing with developers.

PS3 gets the benefit of the doubt with Cell this past gen, but outside of 1st party and a few 3rd party games Xbox 30 always had better looking games. No one stopped buying Sony consoles or games.
 
The thing is, while MS tools might mature and third parties become more accustomed to it..the same will happen for the PS4.
It won't be a game of catch up till they are neck and neck. Unless the PS4 hits some hypothetical wall its power can only grow.

Like it or not, Sony has a HUGE stable of 1st party and loyal 3rd party guys who spend every day focused on Sony hardware. Instead of figure out ways to work magic with the PS3 they have a box of raw, easy to dev. on harware that's pushing 1080 out the gate.
I can only imagine what Naughty Dog, Sucker Punch, Santa Monica etc.. produce in this coming years.

In the end, Ill have both consoles in the coming weeks (I have a 12 year old who thinks gaming is CoD, trick shots and screaming at people online...so an Xbone is MANDATORY lol)
But as it stands Sony has become the third party box...and still the box pushing out the most exclusive titles yearly due to its abundant collection of first party devs. (Not to mention its BRILLIANT move to secure loyal indies in a gaming climate were dev cost limit originality) And THANK GOD for Sony willing to take a chance and put out games that aren't FPS/TPS/AnotherZombieGame.. like Demon Souls, Valkyria Chronicles, 3D Dot, Heavy Rain etc..

I know Ryse, Titanfall and the slew of quality next gen sequels will keep the Xbone strong but its worrisome knowing that Sony is coming out the gates swing for the fences this early with hardware power and outstanding PR..not to mention, like I stated, heavy hitters in the dugout ready to step up in 2014, a slew of indies, 3rd parties sleepwalking through making games 1080/900 & 60FPS and willingness to put out original ideas..this won't be a walk in then park like 2006.
Like you said, the PS4 has raw, easy to develop for power. Kind of contradicts the idea that its arc to maturity would match that of the XBO. If you have something that is out of the box easy to squeeze then, to me, it would seem you have less room for growth, you started more mature.
 
heh... all this resolution talk.. blah blah blah. What is most disheartening about this whole thing is how it shadows the news of no external drives, Thumb drives, OR... MP3, CD'S for the PS4.

Playing my music library through my PS3 has always been a big thing for me. I will be using the XB1 for that now. Sorry, I just think this news about resolution drop on some rushed launch titles is much less important to me than not being able to play other media, or saving games to thumb drives.

As far as resolution goes... I said it earlier, and I will say it again.. The Last of Us (i think most will agree) was graphically amazing (STRICTLY COMPARING TEXTURES, AND VISUALS) and it runs at 720p!
 
How can Forza 5 be native 1080p @60fps looking superb graphically and a whack looking game like COD Ghost be only 720p???

Blame infinity ward I say. They're running on fumes and it's all they've been huffin for years. The only talent they had left awhile ago.

Same thing with Bungie, until they show something tangible and more impressive than yet another 1st person shooter, I'm not buying this "see you starside" bulls***.

But I digress.
 
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Maybe its possible developers found out making the game 720p on Xbox One they were able to make the game look better than having sony force developers on their system to be 1080p?

We'll found out obviously once launch hits.

Sony isn't forcing devs to do 1080p. But if BF4 is any indication, I'd be going with 720p + investing in new approaches to AA on X1 because the IQ outside of AA is better in that game even at 720p vs 900p. If devs can get around the aliasing from the upscale at 720p, then they have a better looking option going that route imho. On PS4 they have low end scaler tech by comparison that would royally smear the image scaled from 720p to 1080p, so devs won't find that option appealing on that platform.
 
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Blame infinity ward I say. They're running on fumes and it's all they've been huffin for years. The only talent they had left awhile ago.

Same thing with Bungie, until they show something tangible and more impressive than yet another 1st person shooter, I'm not buying this "see you starside" bulls***.

It's more likely Activision. They have Blizzard working on their next gen engine tech iirc. CoD is using an ancient game engine. It doesn't leverage any of the new approaches to rendering at the backend of the graphics pipeline. :/

Can't blame them for wanting to stick with the current gen engine scaled up a bit though. Their fanbase doesn't care about visuals or resolution. Just framerates/MP. Same the new engine tech for the 2014 CoD perhaps to freshen things up a yr after the new hardware launches.
 
Sony isn't forcing devs to do 1080p. But if BF4 is any indication, I'd be going with 720p + investing in new approaches to AA on X1 because the IQ outside of AA is better in that game even at 720p vs 900p. If devs can get around the aliasing from the upscale at 720p, then they have a better looking option going that route imho. On PS4 they have low end scaler tech by comparison that would royally smear the image scaled from 720p to 1080p, so devs won't find that option appealing on that platform.

So AMD scalars are 'low end scalar tech' now?. Its likely the same thing as in the XB1 with less planes but lets not, let that detract from your argument.
 
So AMD scalars are 'low end scalar tech' now?.

Yes. As in, it's not done at all in hardware on PS4. It's done in software.

Its likely the same thing as in the XB1 with less planes but lets not, let that detract from your argument.

Less planes is pretty damn important. That's like saying you can enjoy playing chess with just 1 person. After all, it's pretty close to having 2 ppl! :meh:

On X1, the 2 display planes not only work for compositing independently processing image planes, they also let you adjust things like color depth for each of the two planes between frames (along with alpha channels, resolutions, and even framerates). All that plus scaling for different outputs (tablets, phones, 3D). You get...none of that on PS4 being done in hardware afaik. It just does the single scanout display engine for the game, and another for OS overlays (X1 also has a 3rd display plane for OS overlays).

It's MS's tech btw. Not AMD's. MSR did some really interesting work on the concept in 2011/2012 in more extreme/ambitious experimental setups.
 
Yes. As in, it's not done at all in hardware on PS4. It's done in software.

But it is done in hardware and its been confirmed on twitter. Why would they remove something from the standard GCN IP pool? it comes for free and it costs to remove. Every (at least) GCN AMD card has a hardware scalar.
 
But it is done in hardware and its been confirmed on twitter. Why would they remove something from the standard GCN IP pool? it comes for free and it costs to remove. Every (at least) GCN AMD card has a hardware scalar.

Says who? On PS4? Because BF4 uses a software scaler by the sound of what DF said. Either way, it's clear not great on PS4 as it smears some of the assets in that game.
 
Says who? On PS4? Because BF4 uses a software scaler by the sound of what DF said. Either way, it's clear not great on PS4 as it smears some of the assets in that game.

Shu on twitter confirmed it, and whats the point of ripping out part of the standard GCN IP, it makes no sense. Heres a hint, Ryse also uses a software upscale. They probably used it for some internal reason or another.
 
Shu on twitter confirmed it, and whats the point of ripping out part of the standard GCN IP, it makes no sense. Heres a hint, Ryse also uses a software upscale. They probably used it for some internal reason or another.
Pretty sure Ryse uses a software downscaler from the 1080p frame buffer to 900p and the X1 hardware upscaler back to 1080p, could be wrong though
 
Pretty sure Ryse uses a software downscaler from the 1080p frame buffer to 900p and the X1 hardware upscaler back to 1080p, could be wrong though

Ryse is 900P, not once is it rendered at 1080P. Other wise what they would be saying wrt to lowering the reso to allow more effects would make sense. The Ryse scaler is software and probably does something fancy the consoles hardware can't. It should be, it looks very good.
 
Shu on twitter confirmed it, and whats the point of ripping out part of the standard GCN IP, it makes no sense. Heres a hint, Ryse also uses a software upscale. They probably used it for some internal reason or another.

Pretty sure Crytek isn't using a software scaler. Not sure where ya heard that from. And if DF is wrong and PS4's BF4 is using a hardware scaler that only tells me it's not of comparable quality to X1's since X1's makes 720p look as nice upscaled to 1080p as a 900p game. So...yeah.
 
Ryse is 900P, not once is it rendered at 1080P. Other wise what they would be saying wrt to lowering the reso to allow more effects would make sense. The Ryse scaler is software and probably does something fancy the consoles hardware can't. It should be, it looks very good.
https://twitter.com/RealtimeCevat/status/384355681194614784

Cevat Yerli‏@RealtimeCevat
#Ryse runs at 1600x900 for best perf&res,we apply our upscaler for AA, framebuffer native 1080p.SAME as E3 XboxOne! No change,No compromise!

So yah they use their own upscaler not the X1's hardware, but it is native 1080p in the frame buffer, dropped to 900 and then upscaled.
 
https://twitter.com/RealtimeCevat/status/384355681194614784

Cevat Yerli‏@RealtimeCevat
#Ryse runs at 1600x900 for best perf&res,we apply our upscaler for AA, framebuffer native 1080p.SAME as E3 XboxOne! No change,No compromise!

So yah they use their own upscaler not the X1's hardware, but it is native 1080p in the frame buffer, dropped to 900 and then upscaled.

That makes 0 sense. The game is native 900P its been counted on other forums and confirmed. At no point is it 1080P in its pipeline until at the end when its 1080P after being upscaled from 900P to be displayed. Yerli has some great weasel words there making people think it is 1080P when its not.
 
That makes 0 sense. The game is native 900P its been counted on other forums and confirmed. At no point is it 1080P in its pipeline until at the end when its 1080P after being upscaled from 900P to be displayed. Yerli has some great weasel words there making people think it is 1080P when its not.
LOL @ the dev must be lying. Anyone 'counting' isn't counting what's in the frame buffer.
 
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