I finally got around to playing and beating Ninja Gaiden 3: Razor's Edge [360], and thought it was only fitting that I, your resident Gaiden fanboy, make a thread to discuss the game. I don't think it'll be news to anyone at this point that it doesn't live up to the stellar level of its predecessors, but you may be pleased to learn that the core gameplay nonetheless still offers a great amount of exciting fun that provides an entertaining challenge for any fan of the series or genre.
I never played the original/vanilla 3 version. After hearing so many less-than-ideal things I wasn't particularly excited to grab it right away, then I heard about the Razor's Edge edition - with all sorts of gameplay improvements and additions over the original - coming to the Wii U. I didn't have a Wii-U and didn't plan on getting one, so I waited for the inevitable 360 version to be released. Fast forward a bit and it recently went on sale for $24.99 at Gamestop, so it was definitely time for me to dive in.
The general gameplay in Ninja Gaiden 3: Razor's Edge involves your character, the legendary Super Ninja himself, Ryu Hayabusa, melee-combating his way through carefully paced gangs of progressively dangerous enemies en route across linear levels, with minor platforming/traversal and a few quick QTE-like cinematic sequences conservatively dispersed throughout. There's little-to-no exploration or puzzle-solving involved. The game strongly and purposefully focuses on the combat, and is all about defeating everything the game throws at you in an effort to survive to the end of each level, capped off with a boss fight for good measure.
Despite a lack of OVERALL gameplay complexity and design, RE (like Gaiden #2 before it) still succeeds (to a large extent) because the CORE gameplay focus - that being the action/COMBAT and all the mechanics, precision, and technicality it encompasses - is absolutely awesome in the truest sense of the word (and extremely fun); more complex and well-designed than any other game in the genre's, imo.
The quality and threat of the enemy A.I. means that the combat requires a certain level of skill and finesse that discourages 'button mashing'. Defensive tactics are just as important to your success as offensive ones, and Ryu has a vast arsenal of both. The depth of the moveset available to you at any given time with any given weapon is already highly impressive, as is the quality and challenge of the enemy A.I., but the icing on the cake that makes Gaiden a truly exciting experience, to me, is the actual graphical presentation, animations, and overall LOOK of these moves as Ryu adeptly pulls them off with devastating effect and blinding speed. Many of his moves and combos just look super cool, as does everything else involved in battle as limbs are removed, bones are pulverized, blood sprays and bodies fly. The sheer sense of adrenaline, satisfaction, and joy that comes when you enter that instinctual, reflexive, zen-like smooth 'flow' of Gaiden combat is utterly unmatched. Of course, attaining this flow only comes with practice and skill, but once you do get there, it's f*cking beautiful. I probably sound like a sadistic psycho right about now, hahah, but what can I say, it's just kick-ass; like watching the best martial arts action movie ever.
While it seems to fall JUST short of feeling as smooth and good as Gaiden #2's (due to some enemy targeting issues and seemingly random [and luckily VERY rare] unresponsiveness of control), the combat in RE remains mostly unchanged. This is at once a good thing but also a bit of a downer since RE does nothing to advance the series in any meaningful or particularly good ways (much unlike the changes we saw in #2's, which improved over #1's significantly [as impossible as that may have seemed at the time!]). That's not to say there aren't ANY changes though.
For one, the 'dash' dodge move from #2 (that replaced the 'roll' from #1) has now changed to a 'slide' dodge that works in the same fashion albeit with a different animation, and can also now be used as an offensive maneuver to break enemies' guards (by sliding into them). This was a welcome, though minor, addition.
Two, there's a new technique called 'Steel on Bone' that allows you to insta-kill an enemy attempting to 'grab' you (an unblockable move) by hitting them with a heavy-attack either just before they grab you or just after their grab misses you (if you managed to dodge). The more upgraded your equipped weapon, the more insta-kills in a row you can chain together, effectively eliminating a horde of 3 or 4 enemies with just one execution of the technique. Not only that, but SoB refills some of Ryu's life energy each time as well. SoB is an intriguing mechanic as it adds something extra to consider in combat (plus it looks pretty badass), but it really doesn't alter or improve the existing formula much at all, not like 'Obliteration Techniques' did in #2 (which are still here in all their marvellously gory glory, btw).
Speaking of health, SoB is actually somewhat of a necessary addition since there are no health potions or health orbs to speak of in RE. Like in #2, your overall health-bar length will decrease as you take a lot of damage. If you survive the battle your health energy will recharge, but only up to the length of the shortened bar that remains, thereby leaving you with a shorter overall health-bar for the next battle. The only way to reset your entire life bar to its full length in RE is by reaching the next save point. Otherwise, to regain health in MID-battle, you must either successfully execute SoB, initiate an 'Ultimate' technique (found in the previous games) once your arm starts to glow red (new to this game, which occurs after simply killing a certain number of enemies) OR use a Ninpo spell, for which you must fill a separate gauge (by attacking enemies).
This change in the health system decreases the challenge compared to the previous games. There's no longer any strategy or tension involved with the delicate balance between saving-up currency for potions and saving the potions themselves for when you might need them most. It's pretty simple to execute SoB when needed, and the 'red-arm' and Ninpo bar is quick to fill, so more health is often readily available. Similarly, the fact that you no longer need to buy or save 'devil elixirs' (the potions needed to refill your Ninpo in previous games) means that you can be much more liberal in the use of your screen-clearing Ninpo techniques in RE, which naturally eliminates some degree challenge.
To those who found the previous Gaiden games too hard, I suppose these health-system changes would be a good thing, while those who live and die for the infamous Gaiden-level of challenge would find it bad. Honestly, it didn't make that much of a difference to me as I still had a lot of fun with the game, and there are always harder difficulties to play on, as well as a slew of additional 'challenge' levels that are a ton harder than the campaign. While I certainly found the campaign to be a lot easier than the previous entries (even the bosses are much less difficult), it still does provide a very decent challenge. I completed the campaign on 'Normal' difficulty in around 6 hours, so unfortunately the fun doesn't last very long, but keeping in mind the other modes, as well as online stuff, there are plenty more hours of fun to be had.
Not so fun, however, is the severe lack in variety of different enemy types throughout the campaign. This is a very large negative factor for me. There should have been many more different kinds of enemies to fight, in order to keep things more fresh and interesting. Plus, many of the enemies are returning models and/or movesets from previous games, so nothing much new to see here.
Indeed, my biggest problem with RE is that it just doesn't bring enough new to the table. You'll use pretty much all the same weapons as you did in #2, pretty much all the same moves and animations, fight many of the same enemies, etc. Yes the game does have new environments and a new storyline (more on that in a bit), and some other new gameplay changes like minor QTE-like cinematic sequences (which are actually kinda neat and don't get much in the way imo), but generally the game is just a re-skinning of #2 and sorely lacking the same level of heart & soul. It just feels lazy. #2 is one of my favorite games of all time, so more of that IS welcome in a sense, but it's hard to get particularly excited for something that I've already played a ton of before, especially when this doesn't feel particularly inspired, is lacking enthusiasm for the source material, and is less polished than its forebears (even hard-locking my 360 a couple times, though the framerate was always solid). However, I suppose if you haven't even played those before then none of these feelings will apply to you and I imagine you'll probably think it's actually all pretty fantastic, what with it being your first time experiencing the majesty of Gaiden and all (haha).
As for the story... it's terrible. Fortunately, there isn't much of it; you'll get a cutscene at the start and end of each level, plus maybe some dialogue/radio chatter during missions, but that's about it. With that said, there is certainly much more of a 'story'-focus in RE compared to the previous games. I never had a problem with Gaiden being light on story. It was all about the gameplay, and the mysterious badassery of Ryu Hayabusa. That's all I needed - and wanted - to know. The story presented in RE does nothing but weaken the character of Ryu, by making him come across as more 'human' and 'emotional' and 'vulnerable' and a wannabe 'family-man'. The circumstances of the origins of the final boss are pretty interesting, as are certain elements of seeing more about Ryu, but everything else about the narrative - from the concept to the dialogue to the presentation - comes across as lame, not cool as it should. Whatever, it's easy for me to ignore it though as I couldn't give two flips about a story in Gaiden. Just know you're a super ninja kicking all kinds of butt.
I played with the Japanese dialogue option on and I highly recommend doing so as I think it does help to add a bit more to the 'cool factor', and the horrible writing won't be as noticeable or turn you off as much. Plus, during gameplay the soldier enemies will call out/say certain things that I'm sure get annoying and sound stupid in English, but it's not very distracting at all hearing it in Japanese and actually contributes a more retro, authentic Japanese game feel, which I enjoy. I played through #1 and #2 this way as well, actually; it's the best way to experience Gaiden, imo.
Oh, btw, to those who played the Ninja Gaiden 3 demo and were worried by the 'stealth-section' that occurs in it... that's the one and ONLY stealth section in the entire game of RE, so worry not, as it's no big deal. The sections where you are forced to play as Ayane in the RE campaign are no big deal either; she only has two levels out of the entire thing, and surprisingly she is almost just as fun and cool as Ryu to play as.
In the end, my feelings on Razor's Edge are pretty "meh", as I've "been there done that" and it doesn't bring much of anything new or improved. Disappointingly, it's hard for me to highly recommend it to the general gaming population (unlike #2 or #1/Black which I would still SUPER highly recommend). But if you're a fan of the previous Gaiden games, or if you're a big fan of the character-action genre in general, or maybe even if this is your first character-action game ever, then I DO think you should check it out because it IS still a lot of fun (the combat is just SO good). Otherwise, never mind (or play #1 or #2 instead). As a big fan of Gaiden myself I thought RE was ALRIGHT but it didn't knock my socks off anywhere even close to the intensity that #1 and #2 did, and really only serves to weaken the franchise.
Have you guys played through it yet? If so, share your thoughts! Or to those that haven't yet played, feel free to ask any questions!
I never played the original/vanilla 3 version. After hearing so many less-than-ideal things I wasn't particularly excited to grab it right away, then I heard about the Razor's Edge edition - with all sorts of gameplay improvements and additions over the original - coming to the Wii U. I didn't have a Wii-U and didn't plan on getting one, so I waited for the inevitable 360 version to be released. Fast forward a bit and it recently went on sale for $24.99 at Gamestop, so it was definitely time for me to dive in.
The general gameplay in Ninja Gaiden 3: Razor's Edge involves your character, the legendary Super Ninja himself, Ryu Hayabusa, melee-combating his way through carefully paced gangs of progressively dangerous enemies en route across linear levels, with minor platforming/traversal and a few quick QTE-like cinematic sequences conservatively dispersed throughout. There's little-to-no exploration or puzzle-solving involved. The game strongly and purposefully focuses on the combat, and is all about defeating everything the game throws at you in an effort to survive to the end of each level, capped off with a boss fight for good measure.
Despite a lack of OVERALL gameplay complexity and design, RE (like Gaiden #2 before it) still succeeds (to a large extent) because the CORE gameplay focus - that being the action/COMBAT and all the mechanics, precision, and technicality it encompasses - is absolutely awesome in the truest sense of the word (and extremely fun); more complex and well-designed than any other game in the genre's, imo.
The quality and threat of the enemy A.I. means that the combat requires a certain level of skill and finesse that discourages 'button mashing'. Defensive tactics are just as important to your success as offensive ones, and Ryu has a vast arsenal of both. The depth of the moveset available to you at any given time with any given weapon is already highly impressive, as is the quality and challenge of the enemy A.I., but the icing on the cake that makes Gaiden a truly exciting experience, to me, is the actual graphical presentation, animations, and overall LOOK of these moves as Ryu adeptly pulls them off with devastating effect and blinding speed. Many of his moves and combos just look super cool, as does everything else involved in battle as limbs are removed, bones are pulverized, blood sprays and bodies fly. The sheer sense of adrenaline, satisfaction, and joy that comes when you enter that instinctual, reflexive, zen-like smooth 'flow' of Gaiden combat is utterly unmatched. Of course, attaining this flow only comes with practice and skill, but once you do get there, it's f*cking beautiful. I probably sound like a sadistic psycho right about now, hahah, but what can I say, it's just kick-ass; like watching the best martial arts action movie ever.
While it seems to fall JUST short of feeling as smooth and good as Gaiden #2's (due to some enemy targeting issues and seemingly random [and luckily VERY rare] unresponsiveness of control), the combat in RE remains mostly unchanged. This is at once a good thing but also a bit of a downer since RE does nothing to advance the series in any meaningful or particularly good ways (much unlike the changes we saw in #2's, which improved over #1's significantly [as impossible as that may have seemed at the time!]). That's not to say there aren't ANY changes though.
For one, the 'dash' dodge move from #2 (that replaced the 'roll' from #1) has now changed to a 'slide' dodge that works in the same fashion albeit with a different animation, and can also now be used as an offensive maneuver to break enemies' guards (by sliding into them). This was a welcome, though minor, addition.
Two, there's a new technique called 'Steel on Bone' that allows you to insta-kill an enemy attempting to 'grab' you (an unblockable move) by hitting them with a heavy-attack either just before they grab you or just after their grab misses you (if you managed to dodge). The more upgraded your equipped weapon, the more insta-kills in a row you can chain together, effectively eliminating a horde of 3 or 4 enemies with just one execution of the technique. Not only that, but SoB refills some of Ryu's life energy each time as well. SoB is an intriguing mechanic as it adds something extra to consider in combat (plus it looks pretty badass), but it really doesn't alter or improve the existing formula much at all, not like 'Obliteration Techniques' did in #2 (which are still here in all their marvellously gory glory, btw).
Speaking of health, SoB is actually somewhat of a necessary addition since there are no health potions or health orbs to speak of in RE. Like in #2, your overall health-bar length will decrease as you take a lot of damage. If you survive the battle your health energy will recharge, but only up to the length of the shortened bar that remains, thereby leaving you with a shorter overall health-bar for the next battle. The only way to reset your entire life bar to its full length in RE is by reaching the next save point. Otherwise, to regain health in MID-battle, you must either successfully execute SoB, initiate an 'Ultimate' technique (found in the previous games) once your arm starts to glow red (new to this game, which occurs after simply killing a certain number of enemies) OR use a Ninpo spell, for which you must fill a separate gauge (by attacking enemies).
This change in the health system decreases the challenge compared to the previous games. There's no longer any strategy or tension involved with the delicate balance between saving-up currency for potions and saving the potions themselves for when you might need them most. It's pretty simple to execute SoB when needed, and the 'red-arm' and Ninpo bar is quick to fill, so more health is often readily available. Similarly, the fact that you no longer need to buy or save 'devil elixirs' (the potions needed to refill your Ninpo in previous games) means that you can be much more liberal in the use of your screen-clearing Ninpo techniques in RE, which naturally eliminates some degree challenge.
To those who found the previous Gaiden games too hard, I suppose these health-system changes would be a good thing, while those who live and die for the infamous Gaiden-level of challenge would find it bad. Honestly, it didn't make that much of a difference to me as I still had a lot of fun with the game, and there are always harder difficulties to play on, as well as a slew of additional 'challenge' levels that are a ton harder than the campaign. While I certainly found the campaign to be a lot easier than the previous entries (even the bosses are much less difficult), it still does provide a very decent challenge. I completed the campaign on 'Normal' difficulty in around 6 hours, so unfortunately the fun doesn't last very long, but keeping in mind the other modes, as well as online stuff, there are plenty more hours of fun to be had.
Not so fun, however, is the severe lack in variety of different enemy types throughout the campaign. This is a very large negative factor for me. There should have been many more different kinds of enemies to fight, in order to keep things more fresh and interesting. Plus, many of the enemies are returning models and/or movesets from previous games, so nothing much new to see here.
Indeed, my biggest problem with RE is that it just doesn't bring enough new to the table. You'll use pretty much all the same weapons as you did in #2, pretty much all the same moves and animations, fight many of the same enemies, etc. Yes the game does have new environments and a new storyline (more on that in a bit), and some other new gameplay changes like minor QTE-like cinematic sequences (which are actually kinda neat and don't get much in the way imo), but generally the game is just a re-skinning of #2 and sorely lacking the same level of heart & soul. It just feels lazy. #2 is one of my favorite games of all time, so more of that IS welcome in a sense, but it's hard to get particularly excited for something that I've already played a ton of before, especially when this doesn't feel particularly inspired, is lacking enthusiasm for the source material, and is less polished than its forebears (even hard-locking my 360 a couple times, though the framerate was always solid). However, I suppose if you haven't even played those before then none of these feelings will apply to you and I imagine you'll probably think it's actually all pretty fantastic, what with it being your first time experiencing the majesty of Gaiden and all (haha).
As for the story... it's terrible. Fortunately, there isn't much of it; you'll get a cutscene at the start and end of each level, plus maybe some dialogue/radio chatter during missions, but that's about it. With that said, there is certainly much more of a 'story'-focus in RE compared to the previous games. I never had a problem with Gaiden being light on story. It was all about the gameplay, and the mysterious badassery of Ryu Hayabusa. That's all I needed - and wanted - to know. The story presented in RE does nothing but weaken the character of Ryu, by making him come across as more 'human' and 'emotional' and 'vulnerable' and a wannabe 'family-man'. The circumstances of the origins of the final boss are pretty interesting, as are certain elements of seeing more about Ryu, but everything else about the narrative - from the concept to the dialogue to the presentation - comes across as lame, not cool as it should. Whatever, it's easy for me to ignore it though as I couldn't give two flips about a story in Gaiden. Just know you're a super ninja kicking all kinds of butt.
I played with the Japanese dialogue option on and I highly recommend doing so as I think it does help to add a bit more to the 'cool factor', and the horrible writing won't be as noticeable or turn you off as much. Plus, during gameplay the soldier enemies will call out/say certain things that I'm sure get annoying and sound stupid in English, but it's not very distracting at all hearing it in Japanese and actually contributes a more retro, authentic Japanese game feel, which I enjoy. I played through #1 and #2 this way as well, actually; it's the best way to experience Gaiden, imo.
Oh, btw, to those who played the Ninja Gaiden 3 demo and were worried by the 'stealth-section' that occurs in it... that's the one and ONLY stealth section in the entire game of RE, so worry not, as it's no big deal. The sections where you are forced to play as Ayane in the RE campaign are no big deal either; she only has two levels out of the entire thing, and surprisingly she is almost just as fun and cool as Ryu to play as.
In the end, my feelings on Razor's Edge are pretty "meh", as I've "been there done that" and it doesn't bring much of anything new or improved. Disappointingly, it's hard for me to highly recommend it to the general gaming population (unlike #2 or #1/Black which I would still SUPER highly recommend). But if you're a fan of the previous Gaiden games, or if you're a big fan of the character-action genre in general, or maybe even if this is your first character-action game ever, then I DO think you should check it out because it IS still a lot of fun (the combat is just SO good). Otherwise, never mind (or play #1 or #2 instead). As a big fan of Gaiden myself I thought RE was ALRIGHT but it didn't knock my socks off anywhere even close to the intensity that #1 and #2 did, and really only serves to weaken the franchise.
Have you guys played through it yet? If so, share your thoughts! Or to those that haven't yet played, feel free to ask any questions!
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but if you're not having fun while practicing then, why bother. I always found it really fun though, but I have a much higher tolerance for difficulty than most people. You could always turn the difficulty down, no shame in that, just have fun.