Numbers Discussion Thread

[Qbert]

This thread happened again? Look, let's face the facts here. The Xbox One is a successful console. People wanted it to fail after the reveal and it didn't. The PS4 is selling better. So what? That doesn't mean it's the end all be all console people make it out to be.

The Xbox One has better games. Check out the reviews. It's not like we're spreading misinformation. Titanfall didn't push as many Xbox One consoles as we thought it would. It's not the end of the world. Microsoft is taking the gloves of this gen. This is just the start.

1. Agree, not end of world. XB1 sold well, PS4 is selling better. Good news all around
2. Disagreed. Better games is subjective and based on the opinion of the gamer.


All in all, both consoles are selling well, everyone is eating good. It's just a tad bit funny seeing all the backtracking and spinning now. Nothing against MS, it's all good....but lol at the spinners. (When PS3 was "slightly" behind 360 even with a year late on market and costing more....massive failure. XB1 unable to beat out PS4 in NA which is their biggest market with the biggest hyped released of TF....not a big deal, ok being second....lol)

 

[DriedMangoes]

This thread happened again? Look, let's face the facts here. The Xbox One is a successful console. People wanted it to fail after the reveal and it didn't. The PS4 is selling better. So what? That doesn't mean it's the end all be all console people make it out to be.

The Xbox One has better games. Check out the reviews. It's not like we're spreading misinformation. Titanfall didn't push as many Xbox One consoles as we thought it would. It's not the end of the world. Microsoft is taking the gloves of this gen. This is just the start.

Ah, the better games argument again, lol. Always get a chuckle out of this. Face it, both systems have great games. 2.9 attach rate for each console, 20.5 million softwares sold globally for PS4, X1 not sure. Give it a rest.

 

[Dno69]

Whats the point of having a discussion when people cannot even acknowledge differences between sold through to customers vs sold to retailers? These are very clear & distinct definitions.

If people want to believe Sony lie about the numbers, by all mean, if that makes you feel good, but it doesn't change the fact that
Sold to consumer != Sold to retailers.

Last time MS post both, in January (3.1m (to consumers)vs 4m ( to retailer) there is a 0.9 million difference!

So its not only not same by definition, but also quite a bit different in numbers that you cannot use them interchangeably.

Please, I am Xboxteam member since 2002 (never a member of a PS forum ever), proud owner of both OG XBOX & xbox360 (which is one of my all time favorite console). The competition does better (at the moment), why can't people just give due credit.

X1 is doing well actually, obviously the competition is doing better. Why people cannot just acknowledge that. As fan, its understandable to feel sad, but that different from debunking any non positive information for X1, or making broad accusation of competitors just to feel good.

Come on, we are better than that.

Sony does lie (or spin). They just don't have to right now.

 

[Dno69]

Actually a lot of people did talk about how Sony rarely commented on NPD or how they bundled PS2 and PS3 sales together.

Yes. Usually intellivision or the like. Others swept it under the rug. But now it's brought up like Microsoft is stooping to all time lows to put their product in a positive light.

 

[Dno69]

That install base though, sure MS and Sony would have had a similar drop off if they sold that much in their 1st 4 years.

Nintendo kicked all kinds of ass. Can't take that away.

What's odd though is that Wii U is a much better product and it's struggling hard.

 

[Yoyoniner]

Yes. Usually intellivision or the like. Others swept it under the rug. But now it's brought up like Microsoft is stooping to all time lows to put their product in a positive light.

I don't see anyone doing that here.

Where is Intellivision BTW? I know for sure he had to be one of the first to know about the NPD result. Guy always lived for that stuff in the past and he was in every NPD thread like white on rice.

 

[Andy]

I'm not sure why anybody is disagreeing with the 4-4.5 million sold to CONSUMERS. This should be common sense.

Yup, it is common sense. We were just having some difficulty with a few posters who didn't want to acknowledge it. I think you came in after all that, so you missed it. Pages 12 through 17, if you feel like some indigestion!

 

[starseeker]

Why shouldn't I, or anybody else, cheer Microsoft for breaking their sales record in the same what people are cheering Sony for breaking their records? So let's not cheer Microsoft for their record sales but praise Sony for their sales? That's what we should be doing?

I know what Microsoft's sales are. They're less than five million. I don't care about the exact number. Just like I don't care that Sony's are around seven million. They're both doing fantastic. That benefits console gaming across the board.

Not disagreeing with you, but this is a comparison thread, not a cheering thread.

There are appropriate threads for this. There is a thread called PS4 sold 7 million (or something like that), which is sort of a cheering thread. If MS has one too(not sure why there isn't), I, & I am sure many others as well, will cheer MS as well.

 

[Dno69]

I don't see anyone doing that here

True. I took that too far to try and make a point.

 

[Andy]

Yes. Usually intellivision or the like. Others swept it under the rug. But now it's brought up like Microsoft is stooping to all time lows to put their product in a positive light.

I honestly don't hear anyone doing that. The discussion (at least the one I've tracked) has been about a few posters (McM and friends) not acknowledging the difference between sold to retail and sold to consumers. I haven't heard anyone criticizing MS for releasing sold-in numbers. I personally don't care which kind of numbers they release. I'm glad they are identifying what kind of numbers they are. At least they are being honest about that.

 

[Andy]

True. I took that too far to try and make a point.

You lie like Sony!

 

[Jay Mammoth]

Nintendo kicked all kinds of ass. Can't take that away.

What's odd though is that Wii U is a much better product and it's struggling hard.

I knew Nintendo was going to be dead last this gen when they announced the name, I knew casuals were going to be confused. Wii also launched with Wii Sports and a new Zelda for the core fans.

 

[Dno69]

Anderson.

Sony fans kind of mock the sold in practice now imo. But as I replied to yoyo, I probably overstated that a bit.

 

[starseeker]

I knew Nintendo was going to be dead last this gen when they announced the name, I knew casuals were going to be confused. Wii also launched with Wii Sports and a new Zelda for the core fans.

Well, that's a silly name, I have to agree. At first I was like, its a new version of Wii?

 

[starseeker]

I honestly don't hear anyone doing that. The discussion (at least the one I've tracked) has been about a few posters (McM and friends) not acknowledging the difference between sold to retail and sold to consumers. I haven't heard anyone criticizing MS for releasing sold-in numbers. I personally don't care which kind of numbers they release. I'm glad they are identifying what kind of numbers they are. At least they are being honest about that.

Well, my thoughts also.

 

[Adam]

Ill be honest, I used to give Nintendo some slack. They didnt exactly have a clear vision, but the quality of their products carried them. I was never really a fan of the Wii, but it was different and they caught lightning in a bottle. But this time....I hate to say it as a life long Nintendo fan.....but I think they might be done for. Not that they are on their last legs financially, but I dont think the vision is there for them to turn it around. Even if they dropped the Wii-U, admitted it was a failure, and started fresh. I dont think they have what it takes anymore to put a competitive product on the market.

Id like them to surprise me...but I dont think it will happen. Particularly with Iwata in charge.

 

[Andy]

Anderson.

Sony fans kind of mock the sold in practice now imo.

You mean on this site? If so, I guess I haven't noticed that. Granted, I have trouble keeping the complainers and the complaints straight sometimes....

 

[Dno69]

You mean on this site? If so, I guess I haven't noticed that. Granted, I have trouble keeping the complainers and the complaints straight sometimes....

The other site. But a lot of the same people.

I guess it's only natural that now that the shoe is on the other foot Microsoft is getting the same reaction. But as you said, at least they clarify that it's shipped numbers.

 

[DriedMangoes]

I don't see anyone doing that here.

Where is Intellivision BTW? I know for sure he had to be one of the first to know about the NPD result. Guy always lived for that stuff in the past and he was in every NPD thread like white on rice.

 

[Mr. Titan]

Everything that Microsoft announces is vivisected and roasted over a slow fire, whereas everything Sony announces is swallowed whole without a grain of salt. Oh yeah, same criteria.

What are you talking about? I see more people dissecting and refuting Sony's numbers in this thread than Microsoft's. Nobody is saying that Microsoft didn't sell 5 million. If anything, there's some delusional people exaggerating and claiming that the Xbox sold through 5 million. Only thing 'critical' of Microsoft people are saying in this thread is that shipped in does not equal sold through.

And you must have a short memory, because Sony deservingly got criticized left and right for their less than upfront sales data, inferior third party games, and a higher price point. I absolutely hated Sony back in 2006 or 2007.

 

[Mr. Titan]

I'm not sure why anybody is disagreeing with the 4-4.5 million sold to CONSUMERS. This should be common sense. I'm not sure why you even had to ask me to say this. I thought it was understood when I said "under five million"?

Thank you, but unfortunately there are several members claiming shipped to is equal to sold through for Microsoft and that Sony is lying about their numbers. And that's been the basis for the argument for the past 5 pages.

There's no denying that ~4.3-4.5 mil sold through is still impressive and that the One has a very nice lineup of games.

 

[Andy]

Well, I think we've made that point sufficiently, and none of those posters have posted in the last 5 or 6 pages, so let's move the conversation along to something else.

Shifting subjects...

How 'bout that Minecraft. Still in the top 10.

South Park did nicely. That's good to see.

I expect April's NPDs to look similar to these.

Reminder that the site will be down tomorrow morning, so that Plainview can install a dozen upgrades. Hopefully all will go smoothly, and we'll be back up and running soon.

 

[DriedMangoes]

Well, I think we've made that point sufficiently, and none of those posters have posted in the last 5 or 6 pages, so let's move the conversation along to something else.

Shifting subjects...

How 'bout that Minecraft. Still in the top 10.

South Park did nicely. That's good to see.

I expect April's NPDs to look similar to these.

Reminder that the site will be down tomorrow morning, so that Plainview can install a dozen upgrades. Hopefully all will go smoothly, and we'll be back up and running soon.

I'm curious as to how May and June's NPD will look like since Watch Dogs and TLoU will be dropping then. Should increase sales a bit more since if I remember correctly, Sony has exclusive promotion/marketing for Watch Dogs?

 

[Hammerclaw]

What are you talking about? I see more people dissecting and refuting Sony's numbers in this thread than Microsoft's. Nobody is saying that Microsoft didn't sell 5 million. If anything, there's some delusional people exaggerating and claiming that the Xbox sold through 5 million. Only thing 'critical' of Microsoft people are saying in this thread is that shipped in does not equal sold through.

And you must have a short memory, because Sony deservingly got criticized left and right for their less than upfront sales data, inferior third party games, and a higher price point. I absolutely hated Sony back in 2006 or 2007.

Yet you're so...trusting...now. I think 7 million sold through is a generous guesstimation based on numbers shipped which they have readily available, just like MS. Of course, over time, those numbers will become reality.

 

[Andy]

if I remember correctly, Sony has exclusive promotion/marketing for Watch Dogs?

You mean ads for Watch Dogs will say "on PS4" and end with the PS4 logo? That's interesting, I didn't know that.

 

[Jay Mammoth]

You mean ads for Watch Dogs will say "on PS4" and end with the PS4 logo? That's interesting, I didn't know that.

My PS4 box features Watchdogs, they were expecting it to be a launch title.

 

[Mr. Titan]

Yet you're so...trusting...now. I think 7 million sold through is a generous guesstimation based on numbers shipped which they have readily available, just like MS. Of course, over time, those numbers will become reality.

And why should we trust Microsoft then, if we aren't going to trust Sony?

For all we know, these 'shipped' consoles could be sitting at a MS warehouse for several weeks before they are actually in stores. I'm not saying that's true, I don't believe that.

But if you are going to be skeptical of Sony's numbers, you should also be skeptical of Microsoft's.

Also, you say Sony's numbers are a guesstimation. Why would the actual numbers have to be lower? For all we know, it could be higher and may be closer to 7.1 mil sold through.

 

[Jackie_Fhan]

as far as this whole "number of sales" argument

Plainview, as others have already stated there have always been a ton of people that made fun of sony for what MS is doing now. Of course those people aren't going to go out of their way to call MS out (but they should shouldn't they)

I know you have your own personal opinion about how MS should handle that and how you feel about that. That is completely fine and no one is going to argue about that. The problem is I don't ever remember seeing you in the past NPD threads very much in the last 6 years when all those people were continually making fun of the "sony family" line that Sony was throwing out. I also pretty much agree sony was stupid to keep using that line. I was just thinking the other day why they don't still use it. Might as well lol.

Now, personally, I understand why MS is using the numbers they are now (they didn't often do that in the past as well) because they simply don't want to look bad. It is also their choice to put the numbers out the way they want so I don't really care. I do think atleast under the rardar it would be nice to have how many units were sold to consumers.

A lot of people are downplaying a lot of these ideas and that is sort of what Anderson and others were calling them out on. They weren't stepping up to the plate.

But please plainview, if you wasn't there to know what these people said in the past.. do not defend the in anyway. It's fine to say your personal views, who can argue that to you? Things have always been "it's ok to bad talk sony" but don't bad mouth MS attitude along these boards. Some of us would rather be able to take the punches with the ones we give. Not that some of us are trying to be to unfair to either. I say a lot of bad equally among the big 3, but I only get the most flak from the MS faithful usually.

 

[Jackie_Fhan]

Well, I think we've made that point sufficiently, and none of those posters have posted in the last 5 or 6 pages, so let's move the conversation along to something else.

Shifting subjects...

How 'bout that Minecraft. Still in the top 10.

South Park did nicely. That's good to see.

I expect April's NPDs to look similar to these.

Reminder that the site will be down tomorrow morning, so that Plainview can install a dozen upgrades. Hopefully all will go smoothly, and we'll be back up and running soon.

I think there is a good chance we could see near 300k for ps4 maybe, with a possible big plunge for X1 and maybe a decent gang for Wii U? I forgot when mario kart comes out though..

 

[menace-uk-]

Thank you, but unfortunately there are several members claiming shipped to is equal to sold through for Microsoft and that Sony is lying about their numbers. And that's been the basis for the argument for the past 5 pages.

There's no denying that ~4.3-4.5 mil sold through is still impressive and that the One has a very nice lineup of games.

Doesn't matter what numbers are used. Sold through are Estimates. Not every where gives sales feedback. Sony's might be a little closer to reality given they were selling out every where, but still, they're estimates. Lets face it, stores are not going to keep buying stock from MS & Sony unless they are selling them.

In the end though this is moot and pointless. It is only 5 months since launch. we have another 5-9 years of sales to go.