[Op-Ed] Iwata isn't the problem, Miyamoto is

[Li Tan]

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2014-01-25-iwata-isnt-nintendos-problem-its-miyamoto

Before you rag on the source, bear in mind, this is an opinion.
What do you think?
I think there's some truth to it, but I also don't think every game is ultimately Miyamoto's decision.
I think Iwata, and others need to collectively say, "it's time to take some big risks" and put some of the Super Mario 3D World talent, effort, creativity and resources into a new game. Preferably a new genre. Think rare on the N64.
It doesn't have to be outside their comfort zone, family friendly games like Jet Force Gemini or Blast Corps would be fine.

But I digress, Iwata is still ultimately responsible. He could simply declare that regardless of Miyamoto, the teams have to get fresh. He is still Miyamoto's boss, after all.

 

[menace-uk-]

Seems a bit harsh to put the blame on Miyamoto. He is the creative talent, sure, but if upper management are telling him to keep pumping out Mario, then Mario he will pump out. Even if he has exhausted that creative mind of his, it is still up to his boss to make decisions on bringing in new, young talent that can take the baton on and usher Nintendo in to a new era.

I think the issue for nintendo is pretty clear though, much like a lot of Japanese gaming companies, they seem to struggle with change, and instead of doing something different and going balls out with their hardware, they stick to the same cheap to make philosophy as the wii. Same thing goes for their software, rather than create and invest in new AAA IP's they revert to what they know and what has worked for them in the past. Its as if they have nobody who looks forward, they only look backwards. It will be a disaster for them when franchises like Mario and Zelda eventually stop selling like they do.

We shall see what they do, but with stocks dropping quick, hardware sales being low, and the other guys ( Sony & MS) joining the party, it is going to be tough for Ninty to make the Wii U relevant. Maybe dropping the hardware and doing software for Xbox and/or playstation isn't such a bad idea.

 

[amigaengine]

Nintendo has failed in two areas with the U so far.

1. Nintendo has not made a strong enough argument for the Gamepad to consumers or developers.

2. Marketing. The console simply doesn't appeal to gamers in the East or West.

If Miyamoto designed the Gamepad and is in charge of advertising, grabbing 3rd part support then yes he is to blame.

 

[menace-uk-]

Nintendo has failed in two areas with the U so far.

1. Nintendo has not made a strong enough argument for the Gamepad to consumers or developers.

2. Marketing. The console simply doesn't appeal to gamers in the East or West.

If Miyamoto designed the Gamepad and is in charge of advertising, grabbing 3rd part support then yes he is to blame.

While those are valid points, they only address one half of their hardware issues. Also, creativity in their software could be the answer to both those issues.

 

[amigaengine]

While those are valid points, they only address one half of their hardware issues. Also, creativity in their software could be the answer to both those issues.

Not so much creativity but some more diversity would be nice.

Example from EG poster
New Super Mario Bros - 2006
Super Mario Galaxy - 2007
New Super Mario Bros Wii - 2009
Super Mario Galaxy 2 - 2010
Super Mario Land 3D - 2011
New Super Mario Bros Wii U - 2012
New Super Mario Bros Luigi U - 2013
Super Mario 3D World - 2013

I love the WiiU and Mario 3D World but Mario needs a break. More F-zero, Starfox, Metroid, Zelda, Golden Sun, Advance Wars, Battalion Wars (greatness w/ gamepad) or maybe Earthbound ? Even if they released those games imo it will not change the fortune of the Wiiu without some Sony/MS/Apple like advertising .

 

[Li Tan]

Maybe dropping the hardware and doing software for Xbox and/or playstation isn't such a bad idea.

Would you expect to see any further innovation or new IPs if they went software-only?
I can't see it, to be honest. At least on their own hardware, they know there's holes in their range and they (occasionally) try to plug them with Bayonettas, Eternal Darknesses and Metroid Primes. I doubt they would even bother at all if they were on a platform that was already home to Halo and Gears of War.

Battalion Wars (greatness w/ gamepad)

I thought I was the only person who liked Battalion Wars. A criminally ignored and under-promoted title, but precisely what I'd love to see Nintendo do more of.

 

[menace-uk-]

Not so much creativity but some more diversity would be nice.

Example from EG poster
New Super Mario Bros - 2006
Super Mario Galaxy - 2007
New Super Mario Bros Wii - 2009
Super Mario Galaxy 2 - 2010
Super Mario Land 3D - 2011
New Super Mario Bros Wii U - 2012
New Super Mario Bros Luigi U - 2013
Super Mario 3D World - 2013

I love the WiiU and Mario 3D World but Mario needs a break. More F-zero, Starfox, Metroid, Zelda, Golden Sun, Advance Wars, Battalion Wars (greatness w/ gamepad) or maybe Earthbound ? Even if they released those games imo it will not change the fortune of the Wiiu without some Sony/MS/Apple like advertising .

This is something I would like all companies to do. I would love the like of EA to bring back Road Rash, or MS give us Ralliesport challenge...etc. There are a lot of companies sitting on quality IPs.

Now, to Ninty specifically, it would help them but is it really a long term solution ?

 

[menace-uk-]

Would you expect to see any further innovation or new IPs if they went software-only?
I can't see it, to be honest. At least on their own hardware, they know there's holes in their range and they (occasionally) try to plug them with Bayonettas, Eternal Darknesses and Metroid Primes. I doubt they would even bother at all if they were on a platform that was already home to Halo and Gears of War.
.

That was kind of my point. Shedding the cost of hardware manufacturing and R&D and all that and concentrating solely on software for others would make this less of a problem to the company. As it is now, this software isn't driving the hardware to success.

 

[Li Tan]

Now, to Ninty specifically, it would help them but is it really a long term solution ?

Well, it would add variety into their lineup, and a long-unused IP remade for modern technology is pretty much the same as a new IP, really. I mean, no one but the most ardent Nintendo hater looking for things to pick on was ever going to call Metroid Prime "a rehash" of the previous Metroid games.

 

[amigaengine]

Would you expect to see any further innovation or new IPs if they went software-only?
I can't see it, to be honest. At least on their own hardware, they know there's holes in their range and they (occasionally) try to plug them with Bayonettas, Eternal Darknesses and Metroid Primes. I doubt they would even bother at all if they were on a platform that was already home to Halo and Gears of War.


I thought I was the only person who liked Battalion Wars. A criminally ignored and under-promoted title, but precisely what I'd love to see Nintendo do more of.

Funny the very first game I thought of when I got the WiiU was how great Battalion Wars could be with the Game pad.

 

[Li Tan]

That was kind of my point. Shedding the cost of hardware manufacturing and R&D and all that and concentrating solely on software for others would make this less of a problem to the company. As it is now, this software isn't driving the hardware to success.

I don't really see them taking many risks if they can just put out Mario on Xbox and sell 5 million each time, though.
And for other Nintendo fans, they might be content with that, but I've never been a big fan of the core Mario titles. I like Nintendo's innovation (in game mechanics, rather than IPs), attention to detail and just the overall polish they put in, and I find it a pity that Mario and Zelda seem to get the lion's share of that effort.
If they pledged to put out a wider variety of titles if they went software-only, I'd be fine with that, really.

 

[amigaengine]

This is something I would like all companies to do. I would love the like of EA to bring back Road Rash, or MS give us Ralliesport challenge...etc. There are a lot of companies sitting on quality IPs.

Now, to Ninty specifically, it would help them but is it really a long term solution ?

I understand N lost 300 million but I wonder is that such a bad number when you consider the WiiU's best games are dropping in 2014 ? Does Nintendo need to change some things ? Yes but I cannot believe a few extra pixels on Mario's cat suit is the answer.

Fix the advertising
Announce some games
Find some partners for 2nd and 3rd party titles that appeal to the Western market.
Fix Virtual Console
Unify Accounts

Seems pretty simple to me lol

 

[menace-uk-]

Well, it would add variety into their lineup, and a long-unused IP remade for modern technology is pretty much the same as a new IP, really. I mean, no one but the most ardent Nintendo hater looking for things to pick on was ever going to call Metroid Prime "a rehash" of the previous Metroid games.

well yeah, variety is always good.

I don't really see them taking many risks if they can just put out Mario on Xbox and sell 5 million each time, though.
And for other Nintendo fans, they might be content with that, but I've never been a big fan of the core Mario titles. I like Nintendo's innovation (in game mechanics, rather than IPs), attention to detail and just the overall polish they put in, and I find it a pity that Mario and Zelda seem to get the lion's share of that effort.
If they pledged to put out a wider variety of titles if they went software-only, I'd be fine with that, really.

No, they most likely wouldn't take risks.

I honestly lost interest in mario decades a go. I do not think they could do anything with it that would bring me back. That is the same for pretty much all their software that is still relevant today.

 

[Li Tan]

Well if they are still serious about turning the Wii U around, I think they need to communicate to casual gamers that it's actually a totally new console. Both my brothers who are gamers to a degree (they both have a Wii, one has a 360 and when they were younger had Playstation, SNES etc.) did not know the Wii U existed, and when I told them about it, they needed quite a bit of clarification as to what it was - an updated Wii? Same but in HD or totally new? Can the Wii play Wii U games?

 

[menace-uk-]

I understand N lost 300 million but I wonder is that such a bad number when you consider the WiiU's best games are dropping in 2014 ? Does Nintendo need to change some things ? Yes but I cannot believe a few extra pixels on Mario's cat suit is the answer.

Fix the advertising
Announce some games
Find some partners for 2nd and 3rd party titles that appeal to the Western market.
Fix Virtual Console
Unify Accounts

Seems pretty simple to me lol

My line of thinking is this; Ninty had a big headstart over sony and MS and did nothing with it. Now they are losing millions and seemingly loosing the faith of its long standing consumer base. Now, MS and Sony are in the game and despite all the stupid negativity around pixels and frames, people are all a buzz with the possibilities and salivating for info on the upcoming games. I'm not really seeing that for Nintendo. You can see all the buzz over new Ips and big 3rd party games, ninty doesn't have this. MS and Sony also have the marketing, the former is one of the best at marketing.

I just think they have allowed far too much to stack against them, and there is no quick fix.

 

[Li Tan]

I just think they have allowed far too much to stack against them, and there is no quick fix.

Yep. Pretty much this. But I do think that a slow fix is possible. But whether they'll try that, or attempt forward flight...

I find that Nintendo sometimes seems to be in an echo chamber and oblivious to what's going on outside. On one hand, it's bad for their business, because they do some stupid stuff that anyone and everyone outside can see is stupid.
But on the other, it's also very good as it allows them not to simply give noisy hardcore whiners what they want (because that would probably be COD and boobs) and we get nice surprises like accessible gaming which I could enjoy alongside my elderly father, or cel-shaded Zelda (which some may not remember but was absolutely hated and torn apart by fans when it was first shown) or random stuff like Pikmin.

 

[amigaengine]

My line of thinking is this; Ninty had a big headstart over sony and MS and did nothing with it. Now they are losing millions and seemingly loosing the faith of its long standing consumer base. Now, MS and Sony are in the game and despite all the stupid negativity around pixels and frames, people are all a buzz with the possibilities and salivating for info on the upcoming games. I'm not really seeing that for Nintendo. You can see all the buzz over new Ips and big 3rd party games, ninty doesn't have this. MS and Sony also have the marketing, the former is one of the best at marketing.

I just think they have allowed far too much to stack against them, and there is no quick fix.

I agree with everything you say, they made their bed and must now lay in it and moan. Iwata said things will have to change...at least they can see that now and I am looking forward to what they do change. They wont beat Xbox or PS4 but if they can sell 4-5 million consoles per year for this gen that would be nothing short of a miracle considering how badly they screwed the pooch at launch.

 

[menace-uk-]

Yep. Pretty much this. But I do think that a slow fix is possible. But whether they'll try that, or attempt forward flight...

I find that Nintendo sometimes seems to be in an echo chamber and oblivious to what's going on outside. On one hand, it's bad for their business, because they do some stupid stuff that anyone and everyone outside can see is stupid.
But on the other, it's also very good as it allows them not to simply give noisy hardcore whiners what they want (because that would probably be COD and boobs) and we get nice surprises like accessible gaming which I could enjoy alongside my elderly father, or cel-shaded Zelda (which some may not remember but was absolutely hated and torn apart by fans when it was first shown) or random stuff like Pikmin.

Nintendo have always moved to their own beat and that is fine, but they do need to keep in touch with consumers. They also need to make sure they can compete with rivals. Going by your other post - the one about brothers- it seems they have lost touch.

I agree with everything you say, they made their bed and must now lay in it and moan. Iwata said things will have to change...at least they can see that now and I am looking forward to what they do change. They wont beat Xbox or PS4 but if they can sell 4-5 million consoles per year for this gen that would be nothing short of a miracle considering how badly they screwed the pooch at launch.

They do not need to beat Sony or MS. They just need to make sure they stay relevant.

 

[Mcmasters]

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2014-01-25-iwata-isnt-nintendos-problem-its-miyamoto

Before you rag on the source, bear in mind, this is an opinion.
What do you think?
I think there's some truth to it, but I also don't think every game is ultimately Miyamoto's decision.
I think Iwata, and others need to collectively say, "it's time to take some big risks" and put some of the Super Mario 3D World talent, effort, creativity and resources into a new game. Preferably a new genre. Think rare on the N64.
It doesn't have to be outside their comfort zone, family friendly games like Jet Force Gemini or Blast Corps would be fine.

But I digress, Iwata is still ultimately responsible. He could simply declare that regardless of Miyamoto, the teams have to get fresh. He is still Miyamoto's boss, after all.

When things get as dismal as they are for a big corporation like Nintendo, this means there's blood on the floor and someone has to pay for that. The blame is going to fall on someone's shoulders. Miyamoto is freakishly talented though.

 

[Lnin0]

While I do agree that Nintendo's fall has been in large part due to a lack of innovative titles people want to play, I don't buy the reasoning that Nintendo is a "Publisher-Developer". They are a console manufacturer - are now and have been. To say otherwise is splitting hairs. It is the classic chicken vs egg argument and you cannot say Nintendo is the egg but everyone else is the chicken. Without software, every console is a worthless pile of circuits, so of course, a console manufacturer has a strong vested interest in software. Historically, every console manufacturer makes a huge investment in their software library because these differences are what set them apart. Just because Nintendo has been the most successful in doing so as a first party publisher, or have been slow to look at non-traditional models of rounding out their library, doesn't make them any less of a console manufacturer than Sony or any more of a Publisher-Developer than Microsoft.

 

[BunzHoles]

They are going to shrink in size market cap wise regardless. They are still massively inflated value wise.

Not that the company can't easily survive, they will.. they are still only a 5,000 employee gig, and they have software that can be made cheaply and made highly lucratively.

Don't expect them to go in a direction any of us "gamers" really care about though.. they probably will become a massive iOS/Android dev.. make billions from it, and focus their efforts there. Their own mobile hardware should continue to stick around though, so if you are a 3DS fan, nothing to worry about.

 

[sharkboy1200]

I don't know, people often say such and such, but overall, I'm gonna wait out 2014 before I start saying Nintendo needs to stop making hardware. Especially when they have a pretty good line-up of games coming up. Sega themselves went through way more failures before going 100% software. Super Mario 3D World seemed like a positive step forward overall for the Wii U with a good year coming up.

 

[Z A C K]

I think it's too difficult to say who is the real problem without knowing exactly how things are run over there. To me it seems like he isn't the one to blame. However, my guess is there's not one sole person to shovel all the blame on either.

 

[BunzHoles]

I don't know, people often say such and such, but overall, I'm gonna wait out 2014 before I start saying Nintendo needs to stop making hardware. Especially when they have a pretty good line-up of games coming up. Sega themselves went through way more failures before going 100% software. Super Mario 3D World seemed like a positive step forward overall for the Wii U with a good year coming up.

You are analyzing it from a "Guy who likes Nintendo's games" perspective though, not a business perspective.

Nintendo went from selling 100+ million Wii's at $50-100 profit each, along with 100's of millions of Wii-Mote's at significant profit, and 10's of millions of their exclusive titles...

To the Wii-U. An expensive to produce machine that outside of it's really good first month, has had the worst console sales in modern history. Not only are they basically losing money per sale, they aren't selling hardly any software on the machine.

While Super Mario 3D World might make you happy, as well as upcoming games.. there isn't much evidence that it's going to cause huge sales for the Wii-U, and either way, they aren't magically going to increase Nintendo's profit margins.

Investors are not happy, and Nintendo is a publicly traded company.. those 2 things don't relate to "well some gamers and reviewers think our games are the best!"

Nintendo lost 17% of their market share, in ONE day.. they rebounded slightly afterwards, and then went back down. They NEED to make some changes.. and that generally means focusing on your highest profit margin oppurtunities. While it's not an obvious death for the Wii-U, it is possibly a product that could definitely die early if things don't turn around.. and one of the problems might be that.. no matter how many 10/10 OMG BEST PLATFORMER WITH 30 YEAR OLD GAME MECHANICS EVER OMG IM SO NOSTALGIC reviews happen, it's not selling systems.

 

[sharkboy1200]

You are analyzing it from a "Guy who likes Nintendo's games" perspective though, not a business perspective.

Nintendo went from selling 100+ million Wii's at $50-100 profit each, along with 100's of millions of Wii-Mote's at significant profit, and 10's of millions of their exclusive titles...

To the Wii-U. An expensive to produce machine that outside of it's really good first month, has had the worst console sales in modern history. Not only are they basically losing money per sale, they aren't selling hardly any software on the machine.

While Super Mario 3D World might make you happy, as well as upcoming games.. there isn't much evidence that it's going to cause huge sales for the Wii-U, and either way, they aren't magically going to increase Nintendo's profit margins.

Investors are not happy, and Nintendo is a publicly traded company.. those 2 things don't relate to "well some gamers and reviewers think our games are the best!"

Nintendo lost 17% of their market share, in ONE day.. they rebounded slightly afterwards, and then went back down. They NEED to make some changes.. and that generally means focusing on your highest profit margin oppurtunities. While it's not an obvious death for the Wii-U, it is possibly a product that could definitely die early if things don't turn around.. and one of the problems might be that.. no matter how many 10/10 OMG BEST PLATFORMER WITH 30 YEAR OLD GAME MECHANICS EVER OMG IM SO NOSTALGIC reviews happen, it's not selling systems.

I'm not really a fan of Nintendo games Bunz, some of it impresses and some if is meh. However, I saw good things happen for Nintendo with Super Mario 3D World and I do believe it's a game that could have long term sales. Never said it was their savior or anything, so let's not try to paint my comment as such. All I'm saying is that the line-up for 2014 could potentially help the Wii U. That's presuming the line-up continually does well both in reviews and sales. They have a variety of games beyond platformers and are starting to build a decent library of games. Again, just for the record, I'm not saying Nintendo is gonna be out of the frying pan, but in my opinion, a good year can change plenty and put them back on the path for success.

 

[BunzHoles]

However, I saw good things happen for Nintendo with Super Mario 3D World and I do believe it's a game that could have long term sales.

What good things did you see?

Wii-U collosally flopped this holiday season, Super Mario 3D World didn't push hardware sales. Long term sales for a game require hardware sales.

Last get Nintendo's games had legs because 100 million people had nothing better to do with their wii's over time.

I'm exaggerating the platformer comment but their games are still old school. Simple 3D action games, party games, platformers and Mario Kart. Maybe some JRPG exclusives thrown in.

I'm just not seeing any of that causing a wii-u resurgence.

Investors expect growth not "we can still exist."

 

[sharkboy1200]

What good things did you see?

Wii-U collosally flopped this holiday season, Super Mario 3D World didn't push hardware sales. Long term sales for a game require hardware sales.

Last get Nintendo's games had legs because 100 million people had nothing better to do with their wii's over time.

I'm exaggerating the platformer comment but their games are still old school. Simple 3D action games, party games, platformers and Mario Kart. Maybe some JRPG exclusives thrown in.

I'm just not seeing any of that causing a wii-u resurgence.

Investors expect growth not "we can still exist."

Most of the exclusives released did not to spark any decent word of mouth or sales for Nintendo, even during launch arguably. I feel like people bough NSMBWiiU just because ti was there. Mario 3D World did well and was able to generate a bit of positivity overall for Nintendo in what was an overall negative year for them. Hell, when it came out in Japan, it sold like 500,000 copies around launch. Tthose traditionally simple games Nintendo releases have a solid record of selling well, both in short term and the long term. Not to say I think all of Nintendo's software will do gangbuster numbers, but I don't see the new Smash Bros and Mario Kart games being flops either, not do I see them just selling a million copies and stopping there. They have solid variety, quantity, and potential quality and a good year for Nintendo is definitely possible. Quite frankly, they simply have more stuff going for them in 2014 than they did in the previous two years. You can rail against the simplicity all you want Bunz, but this is the best software line-up I've seen from Nintendo in years and that can go a long way for any console.

 

[Mua'dib]

I remember when Miyamoto was speaking about retiring in 2001...

I also remember when he said "I could make Halo if I wanted"... Um,sure you could,Shiggy,sure you could...

 

[Z A C K]

I remember when Miyamoto was speaking about retiring in 2001...

I also remember when he said "I could make Halo if I wanted"... Um,sure you could,Shiggy,sure you could...

lol, that could be an interesting game. I think he's the best at what he does, but Halo is not what he does.