Project Scarlet (next Xbox)

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Hedon

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OMG, this guy is a douche. And he is wrong on almost everything he said.

 

eVo7

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I'm not sure if I love hearing about the lower end SKU. Forcing developers to make games for a less powerful console doesn't seem ideal from our perspective. Hopefully this isn't the case.

What's the difference between that and what's going on now with X and PS4 Pro?
 

karmakid

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"I have a friend that works at Microsoft and he tells me things he isn't supposed to"....ok bud....dee.

Wonder if he whispers sweet nothings into his ears
 

JinCA

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That original policy would be far greater with the game share compare what we have now if that went through. People will always act like cavemen no matter what.
They were never going to allow you to share games digitally, do you think 3rd parties would allow that? there is nothing stopping them from doing it now if they want to, they could just require that you be connected to use that feature. That was just BS they put out there to try to soften their image IMO.
 

JinCA

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I don't know why so many assume the next xbox will be more powerful than the next playstation, if they both launch in 2020 they'll basically be the same thing. No matter how much money a company has they'll still face the same technical limits as any competitor, every high end cell phone right now has basically the same internals for that very reason. They'll likely try to differentiate themselves in different ways outside of "power" they've already laid that groundwork with game pass and they'll probably have some type of AR peripheral thing eventually. Sony will probably focus on enhanced VR as well as some other type of services
 

The Sunset Limited

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What's the difference between that and what's going on now with X and PS4 Pro?
Hmmm...good question. I don't know. I just prefer the idea of one console that everyone plays on. There's no competitive advantage because someone dropped an additional $200 dollars on the deluxe model (higher fps, sharper resolution, better draw distance). There's no wondering how a game will look/run on your base model after watching an E3 press conference.

The Pro and X models don't bug me as much because they're only a small fraction of the actual player base and I kind of understand their reasoning around 4k TV's.

Maybe I was just scarred to many times playing with 3rd party controllers at my friends house...
 

Two Pennys Worth

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I don't know why so many assume the next xbox will be more powerful than the next playstation, if they both launch in 2020 they'll basically be the same thing. No matter how much money a company has they'll still face the same technical limits as any competitor, every high end cell phone right now has basically the same internals for that very reason. They'll likely try to differentiate themselves in different ways outside of "power" they've already laid that groundwork with game pass and they'll probably have some type of AR peripheral thing eventually. Sony will probably focus on enhanced VR as well as some other type of services
If they come out in the same year and are priced the same then they’ll be around the same power. The only way there could be a difference in power would be a different price 399-499 or a company takes a loss on hardware.
If MS are releasing two different SKU’s, they could possibly go for a higher price (499)for the high spec Xbox that the hardcore gamers would go for knowing they’ve got the casual crowd covered with the cheaper SKU.
 

JinCA

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If they come out in the same year and are priced the same then they’ll be around the same power. The only way there could be a difference in power would be a different price 399-499 or a company takes a loss on hardware.
If MS are releasing two different SKU’s, they could possibly go for a higher price (499)for the high spec Xbox that the hardcore gamers would go for knowing they’ve got the casual crowd covered with the cheaper SKU.
The thing is they'll both likely be as powerful as a console can be at the time of release, you can't get super high end GPU's and CPU's in a console form factor anymore :( cooling, power draw and cost will limit what can be done. That doesn't mean we can't get awesome machines but the One X was $500 and punches above it's weight but it's still not anywhere near as powerful as a high end gaming PC. I think expecting them to put out two sku's right away would be a bit much, it's probably too hard to get production going for two consoles that would be that different at the exact same time.

I wish it were like the old days when we could get high end GPU's and console makers were willing to take a loss but sadly those days are gone, we'll still get great consoles that can do more than PC only gamers will ever give them credit for but we aren't likely to see any machines launch in the same year that have any real difference in power as long as it's companies like Sony and MS who push that kind of thing. I honestly wouldn't be shocked if the new gen machines end up costing $500 as it is, they'll have to have bigger HDD's and not only faster memory but quite a bit more of it than what we have now and those things don't drop in price all that fast.
 

Two Pennys Worth

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The thing is they'll both likely be as powerful as a console can be at the time of release, you can't get super high end GPU's and CPU's in a console form factor anymore :( cooling, power draw and cost will limit what can be done. That doesn't mean we can't get awesome machines but the One X was $500 and punches above it's weight but it's still not anywhere near as powerful as a high end gaming PC. I think expecting them to put out two sku's right away would be a bit much, it's probably too hard to get production going for two consoles that would be that different at the exact same time.

I wish it were like the old days when we could get high end GPU's and console makers were willing to take a loss but sadly those days are gone, we'll still get great consoles that can do more than PC only gamers will ever give them credit for but we aren't likely to see any machines launch in the same year that have any real difference in power as long as it's companies like Sony and MS who push that kind of thing. I honestly wouldn't be shocked if the new gen machines end up costing $500 as it is, they'll have to have bigger HDD's and not only faster memory but quite a bit more of it than what we have now and those things don't drop in price all that fast.
I think if we’re to see a step up from the mid gen refreshes any time soon then we’re definitely looking at 499. A 399 console in 2020 I wouldn’t have thought will be much more powerful (regarding the GPU) than the One X. I’d imagine MS will still be selling that for 250-299 come 2020 (another cheap but very capable real 4K console option for people who never bought a mid gen refresh). An extra $100 of hardware won’t be that much more powerful considering we’re all hoping for a more powerful CPU as well as a 10+ tf GPU.

I heard AMD announced a new 7nm GPU yesterday that will retail for $699 that’s supposed to go up against the 10.1 tf RTX 2080 (not sure when it’s released). I highly doubt we’re going to see the equivalent to that in a 399 console in the next 22 months max. Especially with around 12+ GB of fast ram plus a good Ryzen CPU.

As I said in my previous post, if both consoles arrive around the same time, the only way we’ll see a power difference is if one costs around $100 more. The current narrative is MS are releasing two SKU’s for next gen. If that is the case, then it does give MS a bit of leeway on price if they make a cheaper version for casual gamers and they know the hardcore will mostly be willing to pay extra for more power.
Both MS and SONY are currently selling two versions of the same gen console so I’m not convinced they couldn’t release two SKU’s concurrently. It’s the hardcore that are usually first to jump in so if as you say you doubt they’ll release two SKU’s at the same time MS could release the more powerful console first for the early adopters and release the cheaper version a year later.


I think that’s why some people assume the next Xbox will offer a more powerful console than SONY in answer to your previous question.
 
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Frozpot

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I don't know why so many assume the next xbox will be more powerful than the next playstation, if they both launch in 2020 they'll basically be the same thing. No matter how much money a company has they'll still face the same technical limits as any competitor, every high end cell phone right now has basically the same internals for that very reason. They'll likely try to differentiate themselves in different ways outside of "power" they've already laid that groundwork with game pass and they'll probably have some type of AR peripheral thing eventually. Sony will probably focus on enhanced VR as well as some other type of services
It may come down to price. If MS comes out with multiple SKUs, they they may just offer a model that's 100 bucks more with more power, while still offering a cheaper SKU...
 

Rollins

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There are a lot of ‘ifs’ in there, but assuming they can pull it off (again, IF), that could be a big jump in game experiences.

I’m excited at the possibilities, but I still have a ‘show me the money’ attitude. So there.

*please pull this off*
 

JinCA

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It may come down to price. If MS comes out with multiple SKUs, they they may just offer a model that's 100 bucks more with more power, while still offering a cheaper SKU...
If they do that it's basically one that's going to be the same level as PS5 and one that's a cheaper weaker option, they already put out the most powerful machine they can at the time the consoles launch.
 

The Sunset Limited

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Microsoft has no power advantage over Sony. It's just whoever launches later will have a slight edge. If they launch on top of one another it's a toss up.
 

JinCA

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I think if we’re to see a step up from the mid gen refreshes any time soon then we’re definitely looking at 499. A 399 console in 2020 I wouldn’t have thought will be much more powerful (regarding the GPU) than the One X. I’d imagine MS will still be selling that for 250-299 come 2020 (another cheap but very capable real 4K console option for people who never bought a mid gen refresh). An extra $100 of hardware won’t be that much more powerful considering we’re all hoping for a more powerful CPU as well as a 10+ tf GPU.

I heard AMD announced a new 7nm GPU yesterday that will retail for $699 that’s supposed to go up against the 10.1 tf RTX 2080 (not sure when it’s released). I highly doubt we’re going to see the equivalent to that in a 399 console in the next 22 months max. Especially with around 12+ GB of fast ram plus a good Ryzen CPU.

As I said in my previous post, if both consoles arrive around the same time, the only way we’ll see a power difference is if one costs around $100 more. The current narrative is MS are releasing two SKU’s for next gen. If that is the case, then it does give MS a bit of leeway on price if they make a cheaper version for casual gamers and they know the hardcore will mostly be willing to pay extra for more power.
Both MS and SONY are currently selling two versions of the same gen console so I’m not convinced they couldn’t release two SKU’s concurrently. It’s the hardcore that are usually first to jump in so if as you say you doubt they’ll release two SKU’s at the same time MS could release the more powerful console first for the early adopters and release the cheaper version a year later.


I think that’s why some people assume the next Xbox will offer a more powerful console than SONY in answer to your previous question.
It took 4 years for MS to offer a console that offered enough power to make it worth releasing (in their own words) you aren't going to see a machine with enough power to make it look better than PS5 games and only cost $100 more. The Pro and One X came out many years after the launch consoles so they had time for production to be set up properly etc, trying to do two consoles that have more than faster cpu's and gpu's is a lot of work. It would require different cooling and you'd also need more memory than the base console so you'd basically have to have a machine that's a totally different internal design. Is it really worth all of that to come out with something that won't get you enough of a power difference to do anything substantial? f they do release multiple sku's they are likely to just release a streaming machine that's a reworked version of an existing console and then a proper machine that's as powerful as that can be done for $500 or less which is also the same type of console that Sony will be releasing.
 

Nervusbreakdown

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Microsoft has no power advantage over Sony. It's just whoever launches later will have a slight edge. If they launch on top of one another it's a toss up.
That is false. Your still thinking that dinosaur stuff. MS is done with hardware numbers. MS is set with the farm servers all over the world and if this goes well as their top engineer thinks. Sony will be left behind bigtime.

Just because MS had a bad start doesn't mean they dont have the money and resources to pull a stop to Sony which we have seen many times. Only for Sony to copy.
 

The Sunset Limited

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That is false. Your still thinking that dinosaur stuff. MS is done with hardware numbers. MS is set with the farm servers all over the world and if this goes well as their top engineer thinks. Sony will be left behind bigtime.

Just because MS had a bad start doesn't mean they dont have the money and resources to pull a stop to Sony which we have seen many times. Only for Sony to copy.
Is any of this related to what I said?
 

Mcmasters

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It took 4 years for MS to offer a console that offered enough power to make it worth releasing (in their own words) you aren't going to see a machine with enough power to make it look better than PS5 games and only cost $100 more. The Pro and One X came out many years after the launch consoles so they had time for production to be set up properly etc, trying to do two consoles that have more than faster cpu's and gpu's is a lot of work. It would require different cooling and you'd also need more memory than the base console so you'd basically have to have a machine that's a totally different internal design. Is it really worth all of that to come out with something that won't get you enough of a power difference to do anything substantial? f they do release multiple sku's they are likely to just release a streaming machine that's a reworked version of an existing console and then a proper machine that's as powerful as that can be done for $500 or less which is also the same type of console that Sony will be releasing.
Not for nothing, Jinca. But you expressed doubt about Gamepas, that it would hurt sales not help. You expressed doubt that the X would be able to achieve true 4K - especially on open world games. You expressed doubt about BC being able to work - that gamers cared about old games at all. You expressed doubt that they would be able to make 360 games native 4K, or even be able to improve frame rates on older 360 games, not to mention OG Xbox games. You expressed doubt that Cloud destruction waa real, etc. Over half a decade, you've been wrong on numerous counts. Not trying to call you out bruv, but Microsoft seems to keep proving you wrong my friend. You even doubted many people would buy a system for an extra $100 bucks, regardless of power advantage. And look, the X is one of the prime reasons why the brand has seen a huge turn around and its comeback is touted as "unprecedented". Those aren't my words.

I believe you said the very same things about the X before it was released - that it wouldn't be much more than the Pro. It simply just wasn't true, man. Fr, Fr, fr. I'd hold off on any predictions. Sounds like Microsoft has it in for you. Lol
 
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JinCA

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Not for nothing, Jinca. But you expressed doubt about Gamepas, that it would hurt sales not help. You expressed doubt that the X would be able to achieve true 4K - especially on open world games. You expressed doubt about BC being able to work - that gamers cared about old games at all. You expressed doubt that they would be able to make 360 games native 4K, or even be able to improve frame rates on older 360 games, not to mention OG Xbox games. You expressed doubt that Cloud destruction waa real, etc. Over half a decade, you've been wrong on numerous counts. Not trying to call you out bruv, but Microsoft seems to keep proving you wrong my friend. You even doubted many people would buy a system for an extra $100 bucks, regardless of power advantage. And look, the X is one of the prime reasons why the brand has seen a huge turn around and its comeback is touted as "unprecedented". Those aren't my words.

I believe you said the very same things about the X before it was released - that it wouldn't be much more than the Pro. It simply just wasn't true, man. Fr, Fr, fr. I'd hold off on any predictions. Sounds like Microsoft has it in for you. Lol
LOL Seriously? Game pass is not a proven thing yet, they haven't released any AAA first party games other than a racing game since the service started, BC is a nice feature and it's better to have it than not but people don't buy a new machine to play old games, hell the MS execs were saying the same thing before they ended up getting it to work, I don't remember ever saying anything about improved performance, if I did than I was wrong but I don't remember it, I think you are confusing me saying they wouldn't double the framerates which they don't with not having any improvements at all. Cloud destruction? I never said it wasn't real I said they weren't able to do it the same way the had originally intended and that's why we ended up with something that's clearly scaled down from the oiginal tech demo. They have done more 4K on the One X than I thought they would but it's still not the native resolution of most games, but yes it does better than I thought it would originally, I figured they'd go more for graphical enhancements first and then resolution, most games that offer true 4K also offer the option for enhanced graphics at a lower res, a lot of games are offering variable res and some seem to add those to their native 4K list which is BS.

Also what comeback? They are falling further behind every month lol, don't buy into a few MS tech bloggers who want to keep claiming MS buying a bunch of 2nd rate studios means they are going to win next gen. I'm not saying buying those studios is bad either so try to twist my words but none of those studios are big gets, the best one was already only working on MS games to begin with.

When it comes to next gen it's simple, Sony and MS will both put the most powerful machine that they can at launch, if they are limited to a 9-10TF machine at launch you aren't going to see some magical 12TF machine for $100 more, that's top of the line PC stuff and you aren't going to get that in a console, even if cost wasn't the problem you'd still have to deal with cooling and power draw and that's not going to be possible in a console form factor. If they release the same year they will basically be the same machines with some differences when it comes to customizations..
 

Rollins

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Did anyone actually watch the video Nervusbreakdown posted?

The summary about the potential of XCloud is basically this:

-Dynamic Environments: Destruction, real-time weather, traffic, etc.

-Console-quality games streaming to anything you want to play them on

-Performance improvement over time for the user, for free. As the XCloud improves, your experience improves, regardless of what you are playing on.

-Enterprise: XCloud to also be used for businesses, which provides greater incentive to improve it quicker.

-No matter what console specs are, MS will have the overall power advantage because of XCloud. It has been worked on for years, and cannot be duplicated quickly. They are far ahead of anyone except for maybe Amazon or Google as far as infrastructure.

-If you’re not excited about the potential with XCloud, you probably don’t understand the potential and what their goals are.

It’s a huge undertaking but the potential could really provide experiences not possible otherwise.

Sony and Nintendo will both do well next gen, but unless they pair up with Google or Amazon they won’t be able to compete from an experience perspective for a long time.
 

Nervusbreakdown

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Did anyone actually watch the video Nervusbreakdown posted?

The summary about the potential of XCloud is basically this:

-Dynamic Environments: Destruction, real-time weather, traffic, etc.

-Console-quality games streaming to anything you want to play them on

-Performance improvement over time for the user, for free. As the XCloud improves, your experience improves, regardless of what you are playing on.

-Enterprise: XCloud to also be used for businesses, which provides greater incentive to improve it quicker.

-No matter what console specs are, MS will have the overall power advantage because of XCloud. It has been worked on for years, and cannot be duplicated quickly. They are far ahead of anyone except for maybe Amazon or Google as far as infrastructure.

-If you’re not excited about the potential with XCloud, you probably don’t understand the potential and what their goals are.

It’s a huge undertaking but the potential could really provide experiences not possible otherwise.

Sony and Nintendo will both do well next gen, but unless they pair up with Google or Amazon they won’t be able to compete from an experience perspective for a long time.
Thank you! Unlike some people here who don't get it.

Thank God for Rollins Rollfor his smarts!
 

Nervusbreakdown

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No, we've been talking about two different things.
You mentioned about if who ever release their console last will have the upper advantage for power right?

Well this tech changes everything. Regardless who come out. If anything it should be who got the better tech.
 

The Sunset Limited

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You mentioned about if who ever release their console last will have the upper advantage for power right?

Well this tech changes everything. Regardless who come out. If anything it should be who got the better tech.
In 2020, when the new consoles launch a very small percentage of players will be streaming their games.

The traditional power advantage will still be an important factor for a lot of people (not me), especially those who post on enthusiast message boards.
 

Nervusbreakdown

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In 2020, when the new consoles launch a very small percentage of players will be streaming their games.

The traditional power advantage will still be an important factor for a lot of people (not me), especially those who post on enthusiast message boards.
True they will be people who talk like that but they will see they are going to be a dying breed and be left out of too many features that an old school style console won't do.
 

Rollins

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It’s not so much about streaming games at launch, it’s the progression and transition into the future.

Amazon, Google, and MS are the 3 big companies aggressively pursuing streaming. Building the infrastructure takes YEARS, and a tremendous amount of resources, so IF it all works, they will all be well ahead going into 2020 and beyond as we move away from traditional consoles.

As far as I can tell, Nintendo and Sony don’t seem to be doing too much with this just yet. Maybe they won’t bother, or maybe they’ll just team up with Amazon or Google. Who knows, but their business plans will be interesting.

In the meantime, Crackdown 3 will be the first game ever to really ‘break the ice’ on this stuff. I don’t even expect the game to be that good, but apparently they got the cloud destruction to work, and that’s just the tip of the iceberg. Can’t wait to see it in action!

So the actual power of the console itself will become less important as we move into the future, and more game assets (and eventually entire games) are streamed from the cloud. Yes, it won’t happen overnight, but it’s going to happen eventually.

As usual, it will be up to the devs to use it, but the potential is exciting.