Project Scarlett (next-gen Xbox)

Frozpot

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Sorry to reply again lol but Matt over at resetera who is someone who would know says both consoles use hardware RT so take that for what it's worth :)
I'd like to hear Sony say it themselves though. Even Digital Foundry voiced ambiguity based on Cerny's remarks.
 

JinCA

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I'd like to hear Sony say it themselves though. Even Digital Foundry voiced ambiguity based on Cerny's remarks.
That's fine but assuming it's software seems a bit silly, why bring that up during a hardware discussion? Matt works in the industry, he's been spot on with everything he says and he doesn't really say all that much. They both need to shut up about 8K and the 4K at 120fps stuff though, that's just going to raise peoples expectations to an unreasonable level.
 

JinCA

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That's great. The lazy game devs won't use RT if it's only for one console.
They'll both be using Navi, it would be silly to assume that they both wouldn't get that feature implemented. It seems like it'll still be pretty limited though but some is better than none I guess. The new AMD cards that are coming this year don't even have it yet.
 

Blandina

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They'll both be using Navi, it would be silly to assume that they both wouldn't get that feature implemented. It seems like it'll still be pretty limited though but some is better than none I guess. The new AMD cards that are coming this year don't even have it yet.
Yeah, I just saw Richard Leadbetter (Digital Foundry) at YT, and he told the new AMD cards don't have it. So HW Ray tracing is from another source, maybe bought from Nvidia ?
 

hrudey

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They both need to shut up about 8K and the 4K at 120fps stuff though, that's just going to raise peoples expectations to an unreasonable level.
Welcome to the Internet! I trust you'll have an enjoyable time, but as for the above, that's not how things work here.
 

Rollins

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https://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-2019-amd-rx-5700-5700-xt-full-specs

“The notion of Navi's 9.75TF outperforming Vega's 12.6TF may well be the reason why the next-gen consoles - both based on AMD's latest GPU architecture - won't be marketed based on teraflop numbers alone in the way that Xbox One X was. AMD has pushed IPC hard with Navi, with a new compute unit design with a 2x increase in instruction rate, twice the scalar units and schedulers. There's reduced execution latency, improved cache efficiency and a new cache hierarchy. Today's teraflop with Navi clearly delivers a lot more real-life gaming performance than last gen's Vega.”
 

Frozpot

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That's fine but assuming it's software seems a bit silly, why bring that up during a hardware discussion? Matt works in the industry, he's been spot on with everything he says and he doesn't really say all that much. They both need to shut up about 8K and the 4K at 120fps stuff though, that's just going to raise peoples expectations to an unreasonable level.
I definitely agree about 8k as well as 120fps. It's console. keep it at 60 and push the damn envelope. 8K especially can take a long walk of a short pier.

As far as Cerny is concerned- he's going to use the latest buzzwords (8k proves that much). I'm not saying it won't have hardware accelerated RT, but I (and others) definitely noticed a more muddled tone during the RT discussion. Maybe it's nothing, but the newest DF vid talking about the Scarlet announcement suggested that NAVI itself doesn't have hardware RT support.

Also consider the machine will be powerful enough to do some RT (as evidenced by Crytek doing it on non-accelerated cards), so he could very well be saying it can do it, but still not have it be Hardware accelerated.

At this point, who knows, though?
 

pravus

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The internet seems to think that Lockheart Scarlett has been quietly killed off.

Seems likely given the recent Booty interview and their phrasing lately but I guess maybe they don't want to commit to it either way.
 

pravus

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I definitely agree about 8k as well as 120fps. It's console. keep it at 60 and push the damn envelope. 8K especially can take a long walk of a short pier.

As far as Cerny is concerned- he's going to use the latest buzzwords (8k proves that much). I'm not saying it won't have hardware accelerated RT, but I (and others) definitely noticed a more muddled tone during the RT discussion. Maybe it's nothing, but the newest DF vid talking about the Scarlet announcement suggested that NAVI itself doesn't have hardware RT support.

Also consider the machine will be powerful enough to do some RT (as evidenced by Crytek doing it on non-accelerated cards), so he could very well be saying it can do it, but still not have it be Hardware accelerated.

At this point, who knows, though?
The DF video just wasn't up to date, it was likely filmed right after the event but AMD has since updated to confirm that RT is now part of the RDNA2 which will be their second gen line obv. So first gen has no hardware RT acceleration but the second gen will in 2020.

re: https://www.pcgamesn.com/amd/ray-tracing-rdna-2-gpu-2020




Even then, still not a lot of info.
 
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Dno69

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The internet seems to think that Lockheart Scarlett has been quietly killed off.

Seems likely given the recent Booty interview and their phrasing lately but I guess maybe they don't want to commit to it either way.
Xbox One X is the perfect mid/low tier console anyway.
 

JinCA

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Yeah, I just saw Richard Leadbetter (Digital Foundry) at YT, and he told the new AMD cards don't have it. So HW Ray tracing is from another source, maybe bought from Nvidia ?
It's a feature that's going to be from the next iteration of Navi I believe.
 

JinCA

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I definitely agree about 8k as well as 120fps. It's console. keep it at 60 and push the damn envelope. 8K especially can take a long walk of a short pier.

As far as Cerny is concerned- he's going to use the latest buzzwords (8k proves that much). I'm not saying it won't have hardware accelerated RT, but I (and others) definitely noticed a more muddled tone during the RT discussion. Maybe it's nothing, but the newest DF vid talking about the Scarlet announcement suggested that NAVI itself doesn't have hardware RT support.

Also consider the machine will be powerful enough to do some RT (as evidenced by Crytek doing it on non-accelerated cards), so he could very well be saying it can do it, but still not have it be Hardware accelerated.

At this point, who knows, though?
I believe it's a feature coming from the next iteration of Navi that's coming next year, it's likely that AMD tells MS and Sony what features they can bring to their GPU's and they work it out from there, neither Sony or MS is going to tell AMD how to make Ray Tracing work on a GPU that wasn't already designed to do it. I also don't believe it's going to be available to use for everything, it says select lighting features in their "ray tracing vision" promotional material.
 

JinCA

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Xbox One X is the perfect mid/low tier console anyway.
We'll see, I 'm just not sure doing two consoles at launch is a good move anyway. The CPU in the One X would be it's biggest limiting factor I believe so that may hold it back unless it's a game that was designed to be cross-gen to begin with.
 

Frozpot

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I believe it's a feature coming from the next iteration of Navi that's coming next year, it's likely that AMD tells MS and Sony what features they can bring to their GPU's and they work it out from there, neither Sony or MS is going to tell AMD how to make Ray Tracing work on a GPU that wasn't already designed to do it. I also don't believe it's going to be available to use for everything, it says select lighting features in their "ray tracing vision" promotional material.
I definitely remember MS saying a while ago that they were working with partners on raytracing and VR. My impression was that they are quite involved. The unique nature of the One X also speaks to the existing collaboration.
 

JinCA

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I definitely remember MS saying a while ago that they were working with partners on raytracing and VR. My impression was that they are quite involved. The unique nature of the One X also speaks to the existing collaboration.
Sony has been working with them all along as well but neither MS or Sony makes GPU's, RT is a feature coming in the next iteration of Navi so it was going to be available next year regardless. If you remember the PS4 Pro GPU has some features that weren't going to be available until the next iteration of that GPU series as well.
 

Frozpot

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Sony has been working with them all along as well but neither MS or Sony makes GPU's, RT is a feature coming in the next iteration of Navi so it was going to be available next year regardless. If you remember the PS4 Pro GPU has some features that weren't going to be available until the next iteration of that GPU series as well.
I'm sure. My point was that they don't just use whatever AMD coughs up. They are involved at quite a high level, I imagine. Software plays a big part as well. I keep hearing about the kind of software they use to find the most efficient paths and what not and design hardware arou d that.
 

Plainview

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I am going to go read that article right now, and then I am going to read the comments looking for the negatives as to why this is a bad thing....
I'll give you one negative, they didn't say all Xbox One accessories will work, just the Elite 2. If my Elite 1 doesn't work, I will have a major problem with them.
 

Hedon

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Found one...

Good news for gamers but bad news for their Xbox profits. The margin on the consoles is terrible. Selling extra controllers usually helps make up for that.
 

Hedon

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I'll give you one negative, they didn't say all Xbox One accessories will work, just the Elite 2. If my Elite 1 doesn't work, I will have a major problem with them.
Carl Ledbetter (their lead device designer) said all controller types (inc. adaptive) will work when interviewed on Giant Bomb last night...


... skip to 31:50 for the relevant comment.
 

Plainview

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Carl Ledbetter (their lead device designer) said all controller types (inc. adaptive) will work when interviewed on Giant Bomb last night...


... skip to 31:50 for the relevant comment.
I hope so. He hesitated.
 

menace-uk-

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I'll give you one negative, they didn't say all Xbox One accessories will work, just the Elite 2. If my Elite 1 doesn't work, I will have a major problem with them.
If that works then pretty much everything else will.
 

hrudey

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I am going to go read that article right now, and then I am going to read the comments looking for the negatives as to why this is a bad thing....
If I may appropriate the gamepass argument:
I don't want to lease my accessories, I want to buy them, and this just means that I am leasing my accessories from Xbox for them to discontinue at some point on some future console.
 

Plainview

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If that works then pretty much everything else will.
Not necessarily. If the new console uses Bluetooth only, Elite 1 won't work wirelessly. Now that I think of it, his hesitation may be that Elite 1 will work on Scarlett, but wired.
 

menace-uk-

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Not necessarily. If the new console uses Bluetooth only, Elite 1 won't work wirelessly. Now that I think of it, his hesitation may be that Elite 1 will work on Scarlett, but wired.
Even wired is an improvement. Wish I could use 360 controllers wired or otherwise on X1.