PS5 News + Speculation

menace-uk-

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TO be fair, this isn't a PS3 type situation where the Architecture is so radical that it's unlike anything else.

After seeing that DF video where they are talking about Navi and the Zen 2- it looks like the TF number tells so little of the story, that neither Company is using that particular number any more.

Also, Spencer absolutely said in the Giant bomb interview that they don't know what their final spec is going to be, which has a lot to do with parts cost and what not (and I'd bet Sony is the same), so anyone claiming one is better than the at this stage is Fanboying.

Beyond that, the DF vid points out the language used in reference to RT capabilities (by the AMD Lady... Lisa Su?) and each console version of the Navi. More specifically DNA vs RDNA. It's an interesting listen.


I'd also like to mention that how any of it stacks up at the end of the day is too hard to say anyway. Especially if whatever MS cooked up with AMD can get more out of fewer clocks or something. Beyond that, even IF Sony IS only doing RT in shaders (whatever that means)- their dev teams can achieve graphics output far beyond their own weight in hardware anyway. Until MS's devs can develop engines and pour that level of cinematic detail, they may need a Hardware RT solution to compete.

Honestly, I am very interested to see how these to machines will differ, and what can be made by each company. Fun times ahead.

EDIT: I'm really keen to see this new use of SSD they are hinting at. Using it as virtual RAM? There are a couple of console specific hardware developments that could manifest in some potential game changers...
I learnt nothing from that video that I didn't know already.

Been telling people since this gen began that TF numbers are flimsy at best. This also ties in to what I previously said about architectures, drivers, etc. There is alot more to power than people think...and these areas are where the power differences will be, if there are any, next gen. I fully expect both machines to have extremly similar face specs.

As for using the SSD for virtual ram is nothing new. Technically speaking it wont affect game performence unless the system Ram is all used up...which shouldn't really happen. But that is based on PC usage.
 

hrudey

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As for using the SSD for virtual ram is nothing new. Technically speaking it wont affect game performence unless the system Ram is all used up...which shouldn't really happen. But that is based on PC usage.
But the system ram can't be used up since they can always use the cloud for extra RAM.
 

Frozpot

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I learnt nothing from that video that I didn't know already.

Been telling people since this gen began that TF numbers are flimsy at best. This also ties in to what I previously said about architectures, drivers, etc. There is alot more to power than people think...and these areas are where the power differences will be, if there are any, next gen. I fully expect both machines to have extremly similar face specs.

As for using the SSD for virtual ram is nothing new. Technically speaking it wont affect game performence unless the system Ram is all used up...which shouldn't really happen. But that is based on PC usage.
I'm trying not to think of typical PC usage. There is certainly more room for innovation in component integration with consoles as the don't have to be built to be interchangeable. From what I understand, physical proximity with the hardware can have an impact.
 

Frozpot

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I learnt nothing from that video that I didn't know already.

Been telling people since this gen began that TF numbers are flimsy at best. This also ties in to what I previously said about architectures, drivers, etc. There is alot more to power than people think...and these areas are where the power differences will be, if there are any, next gen. I fully expect both machines to have extremly similar face specs.

As for using the SSD for virtual ram is nothing new. Technically speaking it wont affect game performence unless the system Ram is all used up...which shouldn't really happen. But that is based on PC usage.
I'm trying not to think of typical PC usage. There is certainly more room for innovation in component integration with consoles as the don't have to be built to be interchangeable. From what I understand, physical proximity with the hardware can have an impact.

At the end of the day, DF is doing a lot of speculation as well...
 

hrudey

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At the end of the day, DF is doing a lot of speculation as well...
Yes, but speculation gets dem clickz, and besides, for a large group of sad people, it's only speculation if it doesn't conform to their preferred plastic's superiority.
 

menace-uk-

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I'm trying not to think of typical PC usage. There is certainly more room for innovation in component integration with consoles as the don't have to be built to be interchangeable. From what I understand, physical proximity with the hardware can have an impact.

At the end of the day, DF is doing a lot of speculation as well...
Absolutely more room for innovation, but I doubt you will see it in terms of game performance.

My guess is this will be used for apps.
 

Frozpot

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Yes, but speculation gets dem clickz, and besides, for a large group of sad people, it's only speculation if it doesn't conform to their preferred plastic's superiority.
And I'm sure it's also because they are enthusiasts who like to speculate...
 

Rollins

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So if this is correct, 4x perf of the base PS4. Apparently this guy has a solid track record.

 

JinCA

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So if this is correct, 4x perf of the base PS4. Apparently this guy has a solid track record.

Seems like that's just par for the course with AMD's new CPU's when compared to the jaguars they are replacing (if this is true) Of course this far out you still have to consider things can and probably will change one way or the other a little bit.
 

Frozpot

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There is no way the PS 5 is only 4x the BASE PS4... That would be the xbox one X....
 

Andy

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There is no way the PS 5 is only 4x the BASE PS4... That would be the xbox one X....
Agree. No way that's true. The PS4 Pro is about 3 times more powerful than the base PS4. That would make it barely more powerful than the Pro.
 

Frozpot

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Agree. No way that's true. The PS4 Pro is about 3 times more powerful than the base PS4. That would make it barely more powerful than the Pro.
It looks like the 4x number has to do with benchmark scoring, not necessarily actual power increase. if it's getting 20000 points (vs PS4 scoring 5000), then that's 4x, but that's also around (more?) a GTX 1080, I think.
 

hrudey

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It looks like the 4x number has to do with benchmark scoring, not necessarily actual power increase. if it's getting 20000 points (vs PS4 scoring 5000), then that's 4x, but that's also around (more?) a GTX 1080, I think.
It might be CPU, since that's what MS was talking about in their statement about it being 4X Scorpio (which was a slightly souped up Jaguar in the sense that Mr. Hankey is a souped up turd).
 

Andy

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Good. It worked well this gen. Should work well next.
 

Rollins

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Riiiiiggght. How is this guy still a thing?

https://www.ccn.com/news/sonys-playstation-5-dead-on-arrival-sony-hardcore-gamer/2019/07/09/?amp

PlayStation 5 Will Be Dead on Arrival with Sony's 'Hardcore Gamer' Strategy

Wedbush Securities analyst Michael Pachter recently painted a wild price tag on Sony’s next-generation PlayStation 5 console. He said that the Japanese giant could price the successor to the PlayStation 4 at a whopping $800.

Such crazy pricing could kill Sony’s next PlayStation. But the company has dropped a hint that it could be heading that way.

What’s Sony trying to do?
According to information obtained by the Wall Street Journal, Sony CEO Kenichiro Yoshida has revealed that the company will position the PlayStation as a niche product aimed at serious gamers.

He reportedly said at a company briefing that “details when making games have become more important than ever.” Yoshida also added that the next-generation console will come equipped with ray-tracing technology, which can create life-like optical effects in games.

All of this will be possible because the next PlayStation console will “dramatically increase the graphics-rendering speed” thanks to high-end hardware. Sony has made it clear that it will focus on titles with big budgets to drive profitability in the gaming segment instead of looking to move more numbers.

This looks like a smart move at first. The PlayStation division accounts for a significant chunk of Sony's revenue and profits. The company generated $3 billion in operating profit on $21 billion in revenue from the PlayStation segment last fiscal year.

The annual revenue of the PlayStation unit increased 19% annually despite a drop in hardware sales, which indicates that gaming software sales and PlayStation Plus subscriptions drove its performance. So Sony is looking to deploy a similar strategy with its next console, wherein big-budget titles will drive its profits instead of device sales.

That’s the reason why Sony could be looking to price the PlayStation 5 at a premium thanks to its powerful specs. But this ploy of selling less PS5 units and relying on AAA titles to drive profitability could backfire and kill the device on arrival.

A miscalculated move could kill the PlayStation 5
Restricting the PS5 to a niche audience could be a big problem. Video games research provider Newzoo has classifiedgamers into eight categories. A bird’s eye view of those categories indicates that the majority of gamers don’t fall in the hardcore category that Sony is targeting.

Just over a third of the gamers belong to the hardcore category according to Newzoo’s classification. These include those types of gamers who will spend money on hardware, though to varying degrees. For example, only 9% of the gamers are hardware enthusiast who will keep up with the latest machines, while 13% belong to the “ultimate gamer” category that spends all of their money on games.

On the other hand, 46% of gamers belong to the “time filler” and “cloud gamer” category. The time filler plays a game only when he or she has to kill time, while the cloud gamer inclines toward streaming services and doesn’t believe in spending a ton on hardware.

This is where Sony might miss out on a trick with the next PlayStation console as its rivals are gearing up for the cloud gaming era. Microsoft’s Xbox Two will reportedly have two variants, one of which will be a cheaper streaming boxthat will beam games straight from the cloud.

Similarly, Nintendo is said to be testing cloud gaming on its Switch console. Sony’s competition is looking to tap into a much wider universe of gamers by supporting more than just big-budget tiles that requires premium hardware.

This could pose a problem as focusing on the premium end of the market with a costly console and pricey games could price out a big chunk of gamers and dent sales of the PlayStation 5.
 

Pureshooter

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Riiiiiggght. How is this guy still a thing?

https://www.ccn.com/news/sonys-playstation-5-dead-on-arrival-sony-hardcore-gamer/2019/07/09/?amp

PlayStation 5 Will Be Dead on Arrival with Sony's 'Hardcore Gamer' Strategy

Wedbush Securities analyst Michael Pachter recently painted a wild price tag on Sony’s next-generation PlayStation 5 console. He said that the Japanese giant could price the successor to the PlayStation 4 at a whopping $800.

Such crazy pricing could kill Sony’s next PlayStation. But the company has dropped a hint that it could be heading that way.

What’s Sony trying to do?
According to information obtained by the Wall Street Journal, Sony CEO Kenichiro Yoshida has revealed that the company will position the PlayStation as a niche product aimed at serious gamers.

He reportedly said at a company briefing that “details when making games have become more important than ever.” Yoshida also added that the next-generation console will come equipped with ray-tracing technology, which can create life-like optical effects in games.

All of this will be possible because the next PlayStation console will “dramatically increase the graphics-rendering speed” thanks to high-end hardware. Sony has made it clear that it will focus on titles with big budgets to drive profitability in the gaming segment instead of looking to move more numbers.

This looks like a smart move at first. The PlayStation division accounts for a significant chunk of Sony's revenue and profits. The company generated $3 billion in operating profit on $21 billion in revenue from the PlayStation segment last fiscal year.

The annual revenue of the PlayStation unit increased 19% annually despite a drop in hardware sales, which indicates that gaming software sales and PlayStation Plus subscriptions drove its performance. So Sony is looking to deploy a similar strategy with its next console, wherein big-budget titles will drive its profits instead of device sales.

That’s the reason why Sony could be looking to price the PlayStation 5 at a premium thanks to its powerful specs. But this ploy of selling less PS5 units and relying on AAA titles to drive profitability could backfire and kill the device on arrival.

A miscalculated move could kill the PlayStation 5
Restricting the PS5 to a niche audience could be a big problem. Video games research provider Newzoo has classifiedgamers into eight categories. A bird’s eye view of those categories indicates that the majority of gamers don’t fall in the hardcore category that Sony is targeting.

Just over a third of the gamers belong to the hardcore category according to Newzoo’s classification. These include those types of gamers who will spend money on hardware, though to varying degrees. For example, only 9% of the gamers are hardware enthusiast who will keep up with the latest machines, while 13% belong to the “ultimate gamer” category that spends all of their money on games.

On the other hand, 46% of gamers belong to the “time filler” and “cloud gamer” category. The time filler plays a game only when he or she has to kill time, while the cloud gamer inclines toward streaming services and doesn’t believe in spending a ton on hardware.

This is where Sony might miss out on a trick with the next PlayStation console as its rivals are gearing up for the cloud gaming era. Microsoft’s Xbox Two will reportedly have two variants, one of which will be a cheaper streaming boxthat will beam games straight from the cloud.

Similarly, Nintendo is said to be testing cloud gaming on its Switch console. Sony’s competition is looking to tap into a much wider universe of gamers by supporting more than just big-budget tiles that requires premium hardware.

This could pose a problem as focusing on the premium end of the market with a costly console and pricey games could price out a big chunk of gamers and dent sales of the PlayStation 5.
Pachter, lol
 

hrudey

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Wedbush Securities analyst Michael Pachter recently
Ooh, mad libs! I'll play:

Wedbush Securities analyst Michael Pachter recently explained gravity is the force keeping the solar system together, Earth suddenly veers off into Andromeda Galaxy in search of intelligent life.
 

Andy

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$800 is such a stupid prediction.

I'd be surprised if it was more than $500. $600 would surprise me.
 

Pureshooter

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The only way I would pay $800 is if it came with a new VR headset - and even then the VR headset would have to be a massive upgrade from what we have currently.
 

Andy

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The only way I would pay $800 is if it came with a new VR headset - and even then the VR headset would have to be a massive upgrade from what we have currently.
Yeah, that might be worth it. Depends on how good of an upgrade the console and the VR are...

I'm looking forward to finding out what the new PSVR looks like.
 

wshowers

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A buddy and I were just talking about this. What would be the limit of what you're willing to spend on a launch next gen console? As it is with no VR/Kinect/ etc, I think for me the upper limit would be $599.99. Any higher than that and I weirdly start getting sticker shock.
 

Rollins

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A buddy and I were just talking about this. What would be the limit of what you're willing to spend on a launch next gen console? As it is with no VR/Kinect/ etc, I think for me the upper limit would be $599.99. Any higher than that and I weirdly start getting sticker shock.
That’s upper limit for me, for sure. Some recent study identified about 33% of gamers as ‘hardcore’, so I’d guess that’s the group (although I doubt all of them), that would be willing to pay a premium.

I found this interesting, though. This is from about 1-2 years ago:

E5F73D10-3BC0-449B-AEB9-E69683AEB8DB.jpeg
 

Pureshooter

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That’s upper limit for me, for sure. Some recent study identified about 33% of gamers as ‘hardcore’, so I’d guess that’s the group (although I doubt all of them), that would be willing to pay a premium.

I found this interesting, though. This is from about 1-2 years ago:

View attachment 2326
It's also interesting that although the Wii U came out in 2012 they calculated a zero factor inflationary component. People aren't expecting a console substantially more expensive than the previous gen.