Official Thread PlayStation Hardware

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They're all comparing to regular hdds. SSD is a game changer there.

The guy behind the video is a little harsh, but he gets to the point, and I've read a lot of the same sources he has -- especially the one about them having to slow that Spider-Man demo down for playing purpose. Having said that, i need you to pay very close attention to this part riiiight here:

"This is not just a whole lot of polygons and memory. It's also a lot of polygons being loaded every frame as you walk around through the environment and this sort of detail you don't see in the world would not be possible on any scale without these breakthroughs that Sony’s made."

In Mark Cerny's speech, this is exactly what he talks about when it comes to turning your head in the game. How this is being achieved entirely, I'm not so sure. But it definitely matches what he's been saying about the SSD playing a huge role in a big part of that, and now we are hearing these same claims from developers. So again, if none of this were possible or it didn't mean anything, i don't think he'd stake the bank on it, and most of all, i don't think developers would be carrying on with the same lie just to fuel the system's hype.

 
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There not really saying anything, though. Just grand vageries. That is the issue, they are the devs, people like us tend to get stuck looking beyond the limitations of hardware we are used to.

"Yes, being able to load GPU formatted data directly into GPU memory from an SSD is a Big Deal,”

That's John Carmack, btw.
 
"Yes, being able to load GPU formatted data directly into GPU memory from an SSD is a Big Deal,”

That's John Carmack, btw.
Yes, but that means nothing. "A big deal" is vague, it offers no context to why it is a big deal. It tells a an action or process but nothing on the end result.

Multiple people sayihh the same thing adds validty, but makes it no less vague. I'm sure it is a big deal, but as an end useer, I want context in terms of end product. How does it effect my experience. We know things will load faster. We know it unlocks movement speed. Sounds nice, but not head spinning or seemingly worth these grand terms.

Obviously that will come eventually.
 
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The guy behind the video is a little harsh, but he gets to the point, and I've read a lot of the same sources he has -- especially the one about them having to slow that Spider-Man demo down for playing purpose. Having said that, i need you to pay very close attention to this part riiiight here:

"This is not just a whole lot of polygons and memory. It's also a lot of polygons being loaded every frame as you walk around through the environment and this sort of detail you don't see in the world would not be possible on any scale without these breakthroughs that Sony’s made."

In Mark Cerny's speech, this is exactly what he talks about when it comes to turning your head in the game. How this is being achieved entirely, I'm not so sure. But it definitely matches what he's been saying about the SSD playing a huge role in a big part of that, and now we are hearing these same claims from developers. So again, if none of this were possible or it didn't mean anything, i don't think he'd stake the bank on it, and most of all, i don't think developers would be carrying on with the same lie just to fuel the system's hype.



Lol at the title of that video.
 
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Yes, but that means nothing. "A big deal" is vague, it offers no context to why it is a big deal. It tells a an action or process but nothing on the end result.

Multiple people sayihh the same thing adds validty, but makes it no less vague. I'm sure it is a big deal, but as an end useer, I want context in terms of end product. How does it effect my experience. We know things will load faster. We know it unlocks movement speed. Sounds nice, but not head spinning or seemingly worth these grand terms.

Obviously that will come eventually.

Basically, what i was showing you is that we've seen a demo of this playing out in practice. Sweeney stresses how it was able to do this, and Cerny make reference to why he wanted to focus on this. So we have a rather comfortable size of information that the PS5 is achieving all of this because of it's SSD.

All that's missing now is more contant to show just how large of an impact this will have on those worlds, which is why i say it is a waiting game. But as far as a confirmation of these things being possible, i think we have that...either that or everyone is lying.
 
I think people should stop pushing the "game changing" SSD stuff so much for now, I'm confident it'll do the things they say but the only way to convince doubters is for them to show it, there is no reason to just take anyone's word for it when none of us have actually worked on the console.
 
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SSD IS a game changer though and thankfully both use them.

No doubt, I'm talking more about the additional things that are supposed to come with the extra speed of the PS5 SSD specifically. I believe it'll bring advantages if devs actually utilize it to it's full potential I just want to see someone show me what that difference is before I get too into debating things with others when none of us really know for sure.
 
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I agree, i think he's a little harsh, but if you can look beyond that, his facts are spot on because he isn't the one claiming any of this but rather his sources using the hardware.

I'll not be watching that video, but so far everything seems to be Sony had supper fast SSD and.... It changes the game, but no details on anything other than the max throughput in a massive read, a demo that as you said had to be slowed down for gameplay (because having enemies and other NPC characters stream in would defeat the purpose), and the hypothetical "you can turn around and we'll read it from SSD" that, to date, nobody really ever said why that's even useful compared to judicious use of much faster system RAM. Not one person that I've seen had said they're developing for both systems and the xsx SSD is going to hold them back. Microsoft, on the other hand, has said specifically the things they're done with velocity architecture (including sampler feedback, specifically to load textures faster and a rewrite of the I/o stack).

Of course, we'll only know what it does once Sony first party studios do whatever they're going to do with it, because unlike dynamic resolutions for GPU, you can't scale I/o dynamically. XSX games will load a little slower, possibly have a frame or two of popin, and otherwise any game developed for both will run better and look better on the MS console (though Sony may well have better sound). Anything that the Sony SSD can do, the xbx SSD can do a little slower, and honestly until we know what else Sony has done besides pile on a lot of cheap flash storage into a controller with 12 channels to fill, it's hard to say anything more. We don't know random io access speed, iops in general or what will happen when the disks have had games added and removed and the storage space on the SSD is no longer fresh.
 
I'll not be watching that video, but so far everything seems to be Sony had supper fast SSD and.... It changes the game, but no details on anything other than the max throughput in a massive read, a demo that as you said had to be slowed down for gameplay (because having enemies and other NPC characters stream in would defeat the purpose), and the hypothetical "you can turn around and we'll read it from SSD" that, to date, nobody really ever said why that's even useful compared to judicious use of much faster system RAM. Not one person that I've seen had said they're developing for both systems and the xsx SSD is going to hold them back. Microsoft, on the other hand, has said specifically the things they're done with velocity architecture (including sampler feedback, specifically to load textures faster and a rewrite of the I/o stack).

Of course, we'll only know what it does once Sony first party studios do whatever they're going to do with it, because unlike dynamic resolutions for GPU, you can't scale I/o dynamically. XSX games will load a little slower, possibly have a frame or two of popin, and otherwise any game developed for both will run better and look better on the MS console (though Sony may well have better sound). Anything that the Sony SSD can do, the xbx SSD can do a little slower, and honestly until we know what else Sony has done besides pile on a lot of cheap flash storage into a controller with 12 channels to fill, it's hard to say anything more. We don't know random io access speed, iops in general or what will happen when the disks have had games added and removed and the storage space on the SSD is no longer fresh.

The demo i was talking about was not the Unreal Engine. It was the Spider-Man demo where Sony sped the game up so fast to prove just how fast the SSD could process that amount of information. They said that if they sped the game up as fast as the SSD could really process that information, the game would be unplayable. So, while you are looking at this as speeding through a game so fast to where you can't play it, it's actually more on a scale of you simply walking/running/driving/flying etc. with a lot more happening around you without the game crashing.

Also, BECAUSE these developers are building their games and software for both systems and bound by NDA, they aren't going to sit there and tell you that the competitive system is incapable of something. That would hinder sales and advertising. But what is said, we've already known (the SSD will be used in game to stream data), but it is being proven now on the system. That is it.
 
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People are pushing the PS5 SSD because it's the one area that it has the 'advantage' over Xbox, in terms of raw numbers anyway. It's all mostly hypothetical till we can get our grubby little hands on the consoles and see side by side comparisons.

But I do think that PS5 will load faster, I think most people are in agreement there. And I've never had problems with textures loading while I'm spinning around so both consoles will probably be pretty close there.

One thing I know, if the PS5 sounds anything like the pro, I'll be holding off, the fans are ridiculous and can be immersion breaking. Not to mention turning off when it runs too hot.
 
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Basically, what i was showing you is that we've seen a demo of this playing out in practice. Sweeney stresses how it was able to do this, and Cerny make reference to why he wanted to focus on this. So we have a rather comfortable size of information that the PS5 is achieving all of this because of it's SSD.

All that's missing now is more contant to show just how large of an impact this will have on those worlds, which is why i say it is a waiting game. But as far as a confirmation of these things being possible, i think we have that...either that or everyone is lying.
I get that. But 'how' isn't the issue. Take the loading x GB per turh of head: Sounds cool in a nerdy way, but what difference does it make to the person playing the game? They turn their head and see new stuff...same as we do right now. Nothing really game changing there.

All i'm saying is these grand vague buzzwords are pretty much meaningless. Not sure that is arguable.

I agree it is waiting game.
 
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They have never had a good launch lineup before. Demon Souls, Ratchet and Clank, and Gran Turismo would be pretty good. Maybe Horizon will be ready.
Did I miss something? That artical mentions none of those. Only mentions a soft reboot of Silent Hill.
 
Did I miss something? That artical mentions none of those. Only mentions a soft reboot of Silent Hill.

I am just going by whats been rumored or speculated because there is a limit on what they could have ready by the end of the year when you look at their studios.

That article mentions Silent Hill but the rumor doesn't make it sound like its a launch game. The source of the rumor said it started development last year.
 
I am just going by whats been rumored or speculated because there is a limit on what they could have ready by the end of the year when you look at their studios.

That article mentions Silent Hill but the rumor doesn't make it sound like its a launch game. The source of the rumor said it started development last year.
Says it is playable, though.

A Demon Souls and GT 7 would be pretty good.
 
People are pushing the PS5 SSD because it's the one area that it has the 'advantage' over Xbox, in terms of raw numbers anyway. It's all mostly hypothetical till we can get our grubby little hands on the consoles and see side by side comparisons.

But I do think that PS5 will load faster, I think most people are in agreement there. And I've never had problems with textures loading while I'm spinning around so both consoles will probably be pretty close there.

One thing I know, if the PS5 sounds anything like the pro, I'll be holding off, the fans are ridiculous and can be immersion breaking. Not to mention turning off when it runs too hot.
You got a defective unit?
 
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People are pushing the PS5 SSD because it's the one area that it has the 'advantage' over Xbox, in terms of raw numbers anyway. It's all mostly hypothetical till we can get our grubby little hands on the consoles and see side by side comparisons.

But I do think that PS5 will load faster, I think most people are in agreement there. And I've never had problems with textures loading while I'm spinning around so both consoles will probably be pretty close there.

One thing I know, if the PS5 sounds anything like the pro, I'll be holding off, the fans are ridiculous and can be immersion breaking. Not to mention turning off when it runs too hot.
My unerstanding is the way the hardware is set up makes creating cooling solutions easier and thus loud fans shouldn't be a problem.
 
I get that. But 'how' isn't the issue. Take the loading x GB per turh of head: Sounds cool in a nerdy way, but what difference does it make to the person playing the game? They turn their head and see new stuff...same as we do right now. Nothing really game changing there.

All i'm saying is these grand vague buzzwords are pretty much meaningless. Not sure that is arguable.

I agree it is waiting game.

Today's games are built where you walk into a room and it looks great, but the more you walk around that room, you can see where developers cheated by sticking a cardboard-type texture in places to save RAM. As you get outside, let's say you walk up on a garbage can with garbage in it and around it. You'll notice how these things look extremely basic to the rest of the environment. Couple this with activity going on around you, and this is where things start to fall apart, not only visually but gameplay wise due to too much information being processed at once. This is where that SSD streaming supposedly comes in to play, somehow. The worlds don't only feel bigger due to instant loads, but they will look better, also.

This is what Cerny was saying in his speech: compromises will be a thing of the pass. It's hard to gage the true vastness of this, so i have to see some more content.
 
Today's games are built where you walk into a room and it looks great, but the more you walk around that room, you can see where developers cheated by sticking a cardboard-type texture in places to save RAM. As you get outside, let's say you walk up on a garbage can with garbage in it and around it. You'll notice how these things look extremely basic to the rest of the environment. Couple this with activity going on around you, and this is where things start to fall apart, not only visually but gameplay wise due to too much information being processed at once. This is where that SSD streaming supposedly comes in to play, somehow. The worlds don't only feel bigger due to instant loads, but they will look better, also.

This is what Cerny was saying in his speech: compromises will be a thing of the pass. It's hard to gage the true vastness of this, so i have to see some more content.
Tthey would look better regardless of the SSD, though.

Here is the problem with your answers:None of them amount to the grand terms of vaguary being thrown about. I understand how these thing work because we have been told. What I don't understand is how these grand terms fit into the user experience. Neither do you, it seems.So, right now they are meaningless.

Even the UE5 tech demo doesn't come of as a "big deal" or "game changing." It just looks like a typical generation leap in graphics. When you look at the benifits of how that tech was demo made, they all point more towards devs. I'm sure a dev looks at nanite and thinks 'hmmmm...that is a big deal.'

So, perhaps we are looking at it wrong, Maybe these grand terms don't relate to user experience at all. Maybe they aimed more at devs.
 
Tthey would look better regardless of the SSD, though.

Here is the problem with your answers:None of them amount to the grand terms of vaguary being thrown about. I understand how these thing work because we have been told. What I don't understand is how these grand terms fit into the user experience. Neither do you, it seems.So, right now they are meaningless.

Even the UE5 tech demo doesn't come of as a "big deal" or "game changing." It just looks like a typical generation leap in graphics. When you look at the benifits of how that tech was demo made, they all point more towards devs. I'm sure a dev looks at nanite and thinks 'hmmmm...that is a big deal.'

So, perhaps we are looking at it wrong, Maybe these grand terms don't relate to user experience at all. Maybe they aimed more at devs.

That depends the scale of your game, as it usually has been for many generations now. Whatever the case, though. I think it's very interesting if what is being said about the capability of this SSD in this particular way has the same effect on a larger scale.

But, we'll see...
 
I get that. But 'how' isn't the issue. Take the loading x GB per turh of head: Sounds cool in a nerdy way, but what difference does it make to the person playing the game? They turn their head and see new stuff...same as we do right now. Nothing really game changing there.

All i'm saying is these grand vague buzzwords are pretty much meaningless. Not sure that is arguable.

I agree it is waiting game.

You get to see more/better stuff than you would without it, they can push the visuals more since they only have to focus on what you can see but yeah that's just an improvement on what we have now, what they do with that in any other ways remains to be seen.
 
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Today's games are built where you walk into a room and it looks great, but the more you walk around that room, you can see where developers cheated by sticking a cardboard-type texture in places to save RAM. As you get outside, let's say you walk up on a garbage can with garbage in it and around it. You'll notice how these things look extremely basic to the rest of the environment. Couple this with activity going on around you, and this is where things start to fall apart, not only visually but gameplay wise due to too much information being processed at once. This is where that SSD streaming supposedly comes in to play, somehow. The worlds don't only feel bigger due to instant loads, but they will look better, also.

This is what Cerny was saying in his speech: compromises will be a thing of the pass. It's hard to gage the true vastness of this, so i have to see some more content.

Hyperbolic quotes like "compromises will be a thing of the past" are an attempt at marketing and mean nothing. It's literally false. There's will always be compromises based on prioritization. That said, the I/O throughput was a major bottleneck this gen. As was the CPU. The floor has been lifted on those things significantly. According to some devs, CPU may still be the biggest bottleneck. Once you stream in all those assets, they aren't worth much more than prettier replacements for the cardboard cutouts if you can't do anything dynamic with them. This is why devs consistently stress balance. What's considered "balanced" depends on what type of game you are trying to make.

I think I'm coming to the opinion that both Microsoft and Sony nailed what they were going for. They had different priorities. Sony's were around leveraging what their 1st party studios do best while aiming to keep their BoM below Microsoft's. It's the easier system to develop for with the biggest user base. This will help them negotiate exclusives and if those exclusives prioritize graphics over frame rate or dynamic environments, they can continue to have a better looking lineup.
 
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A bunch of idiots are trying to say the PS5 is RDNA1 because someone claims some documentation from AMD with a codename is the PS5 GPU which it's not. Don't believe the BS if you see it, the freaking CEO of AMD already confirmed it's RDNA2, Cerny showed it in the slides for his presentation and even compared the size of the new RDNA2 CU's vs the old PS4 GPU CU's and it's up on Sony's PS5 specs list as RDNA2.
 
Hyperbolic quotes like "compromises will be a thing of the past" are an attempt at marketing and mean nothing. It's literally false. There's will always be compromises based on prioritization. That said, the I/O throughput was a major bottleneck this gen. As was the CPU. The floor has been lifted on those things significantly. According to some devs, CPU may still be the biggest bottleneck. Once you stream in all those assets, they aren't worth much more than prettier replacements for the cardboard cutouts if you can't do anything dynamic with them. This is why devs consistently stress balance. What's considered "balanced" depends on what type of game you are trying to make.

I think I'm coming to the opinion that both Microsoft and Sony nailed what they were going for. They had different priorities. Sony's were around leveraging what their 1st party studios do best while aiming to keep their BoM below Microsoft's. It's the easier system to develop for with the biggest user base. This will help them negotiate exclusives and if those exclusives prioritize graphics over frame rate or dynamic environments, they can continue to have a better looking lineup.

THIS is the part I've been questioning myself since Cerny's keynote. I really have to see this on a larger scale to know how they plan to rectify this. So a waiting game is all i can tell you,
 
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