Numbers Discussion Thread

[DriedMangoes]

Sure, but:

Number of unit sold/number of days on the market: X1 wins... therefore, it's sales pace is higher. Therefore, it's the fastest selling console in NA.

Not that it's a big deal, and obviously it's preferable to have sold more units world-wide (which Sony did), but still - the fact of the matter is, X1's sales pace is higher than PS4's in the US. Not sure why it bothers some people here... it's just a fact.

Cool. PS4 still managed to be the best selling next-gen console of 2013 in December though with total amount still greater than the Xbox One's even with supply constraints. Wonder how much the total amount gap would widen if supply was not constrained.

 

[Flynn]

A half truth is a whole lie.

Good thing I didn't tell any half-truths, and stuck to whole truths.

100%, undeniable fact:
In the US for 2013: Xbox One sold more consoles daily (average) than PS4.

Therefore, it's the fastest selling console this gen in the US.

Of course, as mentioned repeatedly, it's still not the most interesting position to be in, but it's better than if PS4 was the fastest selling AND the cumulative champ.

 

[Qbert]

Sure, but:

Number of unit sold/number of days on the market: X1 wins... therefore, it's sales pace is higher. Therefore, it's the fastest selling console in NA.

Not that it's a big deal, and obviously it's preferable to have sold more units world-wide (which Sony did), but still - the fact of the matter is, X1's sales pace is higher than PS4's in the US. Not sure why it bothers some people here... it's just a fact.

PS4, fastest selling console WW since date out on the market. It's that total number that matters. Narrowing it down to just one country and only one month where the PS4 was hard to find in that country is cherry picking. lol

 

[Intellivision]

By the way..... GAF math has determined Vita sold less than 95k, while Gran Turismo 6 sold less than 180k. Couldn't crack the top 10 list. No wonder Sony recently decided to stop GT5 online lobbies soon in 2014. In hopes of getting people to trade up to GT6.

 

[Flynn]

Cool. PS4 still managed to be the best selling next-gen console of 2013 in December though with total amount still greater than the Xbox One's even with supply constraints. Wonder how much the total amount gap would widen if supply was not constrained.

Eh, we'll see... but I don't know why it's difficult for Sony zealots to accept that Xbox One sold more units in December than PS4 did, nor do I get why some folks can't accept the legitimacy of the "fastest selling" label... I mean, while it's both factual and demonstrably true (this ain't difficult math), it's also not something worth shouting from the roof-tops. It means this fight has teeth on both sides, and it's not as one-sided as some might want to believe - but the end result is still clearly a win for Sony.

So seriously - why is it so hard for some people to accept?

 

[CasualGamer]

That is a shame about the Vita, those things are really nice. So is Vita tv taking the world by storm?

 

[DriedMangoes]

By the way..... GAF math has determined Vita sold less than 95k, while Gran Turismo 6 sold less than 180k. Couldn't crack the top 10 list. No wonder Sony recently decided to stop GT5 online lobbies soon in 2014. In hopes of getting people to trade up to GT6.

GT6 should have been a PS4 launch title, Sony messed up here.

 

[Flynn]

PS4, fastest selling console WW since date out on the market. It's that total number that matters. Narrowing it down to just one country and only one month where the PS4 was hard to find in that country is cherry picking. lol

First off, no one's arguing PS4's the top WW seller. The facts are clear, and that's obviously factually correct.

Secondly, you need to look up what that phrase means, because you're not using it properly. You don't seem to understand what it means.

The complete data is here, it's 100% clear and factual that Xbox One sold more units than PS4 in December (NA/2013), and has sold more per day (average) than PS4.

Again, it's not hard:
November sales:
X1 > PS4 (daily average)
X1 < PS4 (overall)

December sales:
X1 > PS4 (overall)
X1 > PS4 (daily average)

Cumulative sales:
X1 > PS4 (daily average)
X1 < PS4 (overall)

Obviously PS4's position is the better one to be in, and more WW is better than being the fastest selling in the biggest/most important region of the world - but still, you cannot argue with the facts. They are clear. Xbox One is doing great in NA, and is selling (on average) more unit pers day than Sony is.

Seriously - is this that difficult to admit for some of you? Why is it so hard to admit? What's going on there?!?

 

[Qbert]

Eh, we'll see... but I don't know why it's difficult for Sony zealots to accept that Xbox One sold more units in December than PS4 did, nor do I get why some folks can't accept the legitimacy of the "fastest selling" label... I mean, while it's both factual and demonstrably true (this ain't difficult math), it's also not something worth shouting from the roof-tops. It means this fight has teeth on both sides, and it's not as one-sided as some might want to believe - but the end result is still clearly a win for Sony.

So seriously - why is it so hard for some people to accept?

I don't think anyone is not accepting it...but it is a bit dishonest and cherry picking. People keep saying XB1 was the fastest selling in December....no, it was fastest selling in December in NA. It's dishonest because people are choosing to use a month and a territory where PS4s were rare to find. Bottom line, PS4 WW is fastest selling. WW PS4 software has sold more.

Period. That's it. Anyone can randomly pick a day or month somewhere and say "hey look, even though sales are overall down, in this one area on this one day, we sold more....lol".

 

[Andy]

So is Vita tv taking the world by storm?

No, pretty much tanking.

 

[TeKPhaN]

Good thing I didn't tell any half-truths, and stuck to whole truths.

100%, undeniable fact:
In the US for 2013: Xbox One sold more consoles daily (average) than PS4.

Therefore, it's the fastest selling console this gen in the US.

Of course, as mentioned repeatedly, it's still not the most interesting position to be in, but it's better than if PS4 was the fastest selling AND the cumulative champ.

In NA PS4 sold FASTER in just one day then the X1 did in any of its NA sales days.
PS4 has more TOTAL UNITS SOLD in NA then the X1.

 

[TeKPhaN]

I don't think anyone is not accepting it...but it is a bit dishonest and cherry picking. People keep saying XB1 was the fastest selling in December....no, it was fastest selling in December in NA. It's dishonest because people are choosing to use a month and a territory where PS4s were rare to find. Bottom line, PS4 WW is fastest selling. WW PS4 software has sold more.

Period. That's it. Anyone can randomly pick a day or month somewhere and say "hey look, even though sales are overall down, in this one area on this one day, we sold more....lol".

And PS4 sold FASTER by selling 1 million in just 24 hours AND the PS4 still has more Total units sold in NA alone then the X1.

 

[Qbert]

You need to look up what that phrase means, because you're not using it properly. You don't seem to understand what it means.

The complete data is here, it's 100% clear and factual that Xbox One sold more units than PS4 in December (NA/2013), and has sold more per day (average) than PS4.

Again, it's not hard:
November sales:
X1 > PS4 (daily average)
X1 < PS4 (overall)

December sales:
X1 > PS4 (overall)
X1 > PS4 (daily average)

Cumulative sales:
X1 > PS4 (daily average)
X1 < PS4 (overall)

Obviously PS4's position is the better one to be in, and more WW is better than being the fastest selling in the biggest/most important region of the world - but still, you cannot argue with the facts. They are clear. Xbox One is doing great in NA, and is selling (on average) more unit pers day than Sony is.

Seriously - is this that difficult to admit for some of you? Why is it so hard to admit? What's going on there?!?

Now how about you revise the above for WW?

Cherry picking:

-to select the best or most desirable
-to choose or take the best or most profitable of (a number of things),esp for one's own benefit or gain:

So, um.....yeah, it's cherry picking. You're cherry picking data from just a certain month in a certain territory then applying a "fastest selling" label to it. PS4 is still fastest selling WW, period.

 

[Intellivision]

Aaron Greenberg ‏@aarongreenberg1h
Last #NPD fact: 1st/2nd party (exclusives) SW sales for #XboxOne 1.5M units vs. 599K for PS4. Led by Dead Rising, Forza 5 and Ryse.


Abreezy ‏@11000Wattz46m
@aarongreenberg so 3rd party games sold more on #PS4 ?



Aaron Greenberg ‏@aarongreenberg36m
@11000Wattz 3rd party did yes, but less overall and less for 1st/2nd party which are the exclusives. Also SW attach rate was higher on XB1

9:25 PM - 16 Jan 2014 · Details

 

[Flynn]

I don't think anyone is not accepting it...but it is a bit dishonest and cherry picking.

How?

People keep saying XB1 was the fastest selling in December....no, it was fastest selling in December in NA. It's dishonest because people are choosing to use a month and a territory where PS4s were rare to find.

Whether or not the PS4 was hard to find only explains WHY a fact may or may not be true, but it doesn't disprove the fact... and the fact is, Xbox One sold more in NA than PS4 did. Therefore, it's also true that Xbox One has sold more units per day on average than PS4.

Bottom line, PS4 WW is fastest selling. WW PS4 software has sold more.

Period. That's it. Anyone can randomly pick a day or month somewhere and say "hey look, even though sales are overall down, in this one area on this one day, we sold more....lol".

Sure, you can look at the data and say "Sony's sold more WW, and that's all I care about" - and there's nothing wrong with that. It's 100% true, and non-debatable. That said, it's factually not cherry picking to make the demonstrable statement that Xbox One is the fastest selling current gen console in the US.

Now, you can give all the reasons you want as to WHY that may be true, but that doesn't change the fact that it's true, and it's factually not cherry picking.

 

[Intellivision]

Aaron Greenberg ‏@aarongreenberg1h
Some good #NPD SW facts: #XboxOne YTD 2013: 4.8M retail games vs. 4.2M for PS4. COD & BF4 both sold better on #XboxOne.

 

[amigaengine]

Both you guys are right. It all depends what metrics, timing, geographical locations or any other variable is used.

You never know. If eBay is willing to share data, a Commodore 64 might be the best selling console...... for that fraction of a minute where one 30 year old dusty C64 sold, while there were no X1s or PS4s sold at that very millisecond.

I find the Sony fans most defensive though.

 

[TeKPhaN]

Aaron Greenberg ‏@aarongreenberg1h
Last #NPD fact: 1st/2nd party (exclusives) SW sales for #XboxOne 1.5M units vs. 599K for PS4. Led by Dead Rising, Forza 5 and Ryse.


Abreezy ‏@11000Wattz46m
@aarongreenberg so 3rd party games sold more on #PS4 ?



Aaron Greenberg ‏@aarongreenberg36m
@11000Wattz 3rd party did yes, but less overall and less for 1st/2nd party which are the exclusives. Also SW attach rate was higher on XB1

9:25 PM - 16 Jan 2014 · Details

KZSF sold more WW then any X1 exclusive and 3rd party titles did better on PS4 as well.

 

[DriedMangoes]

Eh, we'll see... but I don't know why it's difficult for Sony zealots to accept that Xbox One sold more units in December than PS4 did, nor do I get why some folks can't accept the legitimacy of the "fastest selling" label... I mean, while it's both factual and demonstrably true (this ain't difficult math), it's also not something worth shouting from the roof-tops. It means this fight has teeth on both sides, and it's not as one-sided as some might want to believe - but the end result is still clearly a win for Sony.

So seriously - why is it so hard for some people to accept?

I guess because people have different interpretations of what fastest selling is and when the first fastest selling news came out, it was like for 15 days of PS4 sales vs 7 days of Xbox One sales or something so it was pretty common sense to see that it was just PR spin, lol. People were throwing it around like it was some magnificent feat.

I think most people assumed that Xbox One would win the December NPD because of the constrained supply with Sony shipping more units to the rest of the world than the US and these sales just affirm those suspicions. Just doing some quick calculations... isn't the daily average sales only like a few thousand sales difference? Assuming 1.8 million/40 days = 45k for the Xbox One and let's say around 2 million/47 days = 42.5k for the PS4. So nothing to really brag about. I could be off a bit with the numbers though.

 

[Intellivision]

Eh, we'll see... but I don't know why it's difficult for Sony zealots to accept that Xbox One sold more units in December than PS4 did

What do you expect? Sony downplayed X1's victory by combining Nov and Dec into one total, which doesn't even make sense as it was Dec NPD results that were released. So many Sony fans ate it up. Sony hasn't even been brave enough to say what the units were. It takes GAF math to determine the sales for PS4 is about 1.9M while X1 is 1.8M. I guess it's not impressive enough to show the stats.

Even making the stats funnier is Sony's additional comment about global sales of 4.2M which doesn't relate to NPD's US focus one bit.

That's like a console maker responding to Japan's Media Create sales tracker and saying.... "Ummm, but our sales in Europe are great!".

nor do I get why some folks can't accept the legitimacy of the "fastest selling" label... I mean, while it's both factual and demonstrably true (this ain't difficult math), it's also not something worth shouting from the roof-tops. It means this fight has teeth on both sides, and it's not as one-sided as some might want to believe - but the end result is still clearly a win for Sony.

So seriously - why is it so hard for some people to accept?

Trust me Flynn. They know it. They are just picking fights and putting on a brave face and keep the bickering going in hopes people get irritated. Notice how all those 2:1, 3:1 and 4:1 polls have disappeared from every gaming thread for the past few months?..... (aside from consolewarz would did his best, but even he bailed).

Statistics always hit hard.

 

[Flynn]

Now how about you revise the above for WW?

Cherry picking:



So, um.....yeah, it's cherry picking. You're cherry picking data from just a certain month in a certain territory then applying a "fastest selling" label to it. PS4 is still fastest selling WW, period.

Nope, it's not cherry picking.

This is actually why I wanted a separate thread for NA sales, because that's the topic I'm discussing. WW sales are clear, PS4 wins. No argument there...

...I came to this thread to talk about the NPD data (which I really think should be in its own thread), because the WW sales don't give us anything to talk about. Sony won. It's awesome for them. In 2013, Sony sold more than a million more than we did. It's great.

...but that's not the topic I'm discussing. I'm not cherry picking, I'm simply focused on the data that was released today, which is NPD data, which is data relevant to a specific region; NA.

Therefore, it's factually and demonstrably not cherry picking at all:

Again, it's not hard:

November sales:
X1 > PS4 (daily average)
X1 < PS4 (overall)

December sales:
X1 > PS4 (overall)
X1 > PS4 (daily average)

Cumulative sales:
X1 > PS4 (daily average)
X1 < PS4 (overall)

This is great news, and this is what I came to this thread to discuss. NPD numbers.

 

[Mcmasters]

NPD quote, it says "Xbox One held six of the top ten spots on the new generation console games list".

Aaron Greenberg ‏@aarongreenberg 1m
Some good #NPD SW facts: #XboxOne YTD 2013: 4.8M retail games vs. 4.2M for PS4. COD & BF4 both sold better on #XboxOne.

Dayyyyum!

 

[Qbert]

How?

How is not cherry picking, based on the accepted of cherry picking. It's picking just pockets of data to make it seem like XB1 is more popular in December than PS4.
It's like me saying "PS4 was the fastest selling console in the month of December ..... in south africa".
That is most likely factually correct, and every bit cherry picking.

Sure, you can look at the data and say "Sony's sold more WW, and that's all I care about" - and there's nothing wrong with that. It's 100% true, and non-debatable. That said, it's factually not cherry picking to make the demonstrable statement that Xbox One is the fastest selling current gen console in the US.

By the very definition of cherry picking, it is. You and I know PS4 sold fastest WW. People are picking one region to make the label "fastest selling" more favorable to XB1. Definition of cherry picking....to choose or take the best or most profitable of (a number of things),esp for one's own benefit or gain

 

[Flynn]

I guess because people have different interpretations of what fastest selling is

That's true, but ultimately irrelevant. The claim is very easy to understand, "fastest selling = whomever has the highest daily average sales"... and the fact is, Xbox One is the fastest selling console by *that* definition, which is the only one being defended.

I think most people assumed that Xbox One would win the December NPD because of the constrained supply with Sony shipping more units to the rest of the world than the US and these sales just affirm those suspicions. Just doing some quick calculations... isn't the daily average sales only like a few thousand sales difference? Assuming 1.8 million/40 days = 45k for the Xbox One and let's say around 2 million/47 days = 42.5k for the PS4. So nothing to really brag about. I could be off a bit with the numbers though.

Exactly. It's not a big deal, but it's a fact, and one which I don't see the point in arguing against... because it's not anything to throw a parade for. It's a good metric, and it's better than if Sony were both the best selling AND the fastest selling, but one of those titles is better than none, and that's a good thing for everyone, because it means that (in NA at least), the race is tight. It's not a region which is clearly dominantly owned by one or the other (in terms of current gen alone)... and that's a great thing... so I just think the push back, and retreating to WW numbers is pretty sad on the part of Sony zealots... it's as though they can't concede any victory to Microsoft, which only damages their credibility.

 

[Mcmasters]

And all done while getting trashed in PR, getting destroyed in a zillion internet polls, people believing the hourly X1 FUBAR article, costs $100 more and has Kinect 2 forced in the box.

Sony should consider themselves very lucky MS got muddled with many of these distractions.

Concur'd

 

[Mcmasters]

GT6 should have been a PS4 launch title, Sony messed up here.

Concur'd too.

 

[Intellivision]

That's true, but ultimately irrelevant. The claim is very easy to understand, "fastest selling = whomever has the highest daily average sales"... and the fact is, Xbox One is the fastest selling console by *that* definition, which is the only one being defended.

It goes to show how thick headed some people are. Last month, Hyrb even broke down the sales into a daily average. He never said it sold more in totality.

It's like a movie studio saying their lastest movie broke the record for "fasted opening weekend". But that what it is. Best ever for that weekend.... NOT best and most ticket receipts in its lifetime.... which probably goes to a movie like Titanic.

Who in their right mind would believe a movie having "the fastest selling week" would mean it has sold the most ever or even that month? There could be another top movie that released a few weeks earlier, but has more total sales that month.

 

[TeKPhaN]

spin doctors

 

[DriedMangoes]

That's true, but ultimately irrelevant. The claim is very easy to understand, "fastest selling = whomever has the highest daily average sales"... and the fact is, Xbox One is the fastest selling console by *that* definition, which is the only one being defended.



Exactly. It's not a big deal, but it's a fact, and one which I don't see the point in arguing against... because it's not anything to throw a parade for. It's a good metric, and it's better than if Sony were both the best selling AND the fastest selling, but one of those titles is better than none, and that's a good thing for everyone, because it means that (in NA at least), the race is tight. It's not a region which is clearly dominantly owned by one or the other (in terms of current gen alone)... and that's a great thing... so I just think the push back, and retreating to WW numbers is pretty sad on the part of Sony zealots... it's as though they can't concede any victory to Microsoft, which only damages their credibility.

Well, it's kind of a push me-I shove back kind of thing right? It takes two to tango. MS and MS fans say they were the fastest selling console based on average daily sales since launch and "we won NPD December!" and Sony and Sony fans have to one up them and say "but we are the best selling next-gen console of 2013!" So it's all good fun IMO.

 

[Qbert]

That's true, but ultimately irrelevant. The claim is very easy to understand, "fastest selling = whomever has the highest daily average sales"... and the fact is, Xbox One is the fastest selling console by *that* definition, which is the only one being defended.

You mean in NA, correct?