Official Thread Pillow Fight that nobody wins with MOAR Jackie Chan and guys comfortable with STRETCHING their sexuality!
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Hmm. Someone might want to tell me that I don't say what I say.
From 2017:
From 2018:
From *this* thread:
See, I have opinions. I think Sony's implementation of BC is holding them back. I think they make great hardware. I think that people who make great hardware can make poor decisions sometimes, or people who make great games can make poor games sometimes. I'll call out MS when I think they make bad decisions too. And yet you, who literally can not say a bad thing about Sony, want to throw a hypocrisy charge my direction?
Wow! It seems you had to really dig under the cushions for that.
Yet, you continue to turn a blind eye to a direct quote from the engineer that is telling you otherwise. Sorry. I'm not convinced. Sony didn't just throw 36 CUs in the console and decided that they needed to catch up in a spec war. Obviously the 36 CUs were meant for the clock. YOU say BC is holding their console back when you don't even have have the hardware. Sony, like Cenry has mentioned in his deep dive, are shooting for a different kind of performance than Microsoft's console. That is why they've invested in the SSD rather than the GPU. Tell me how that is holding back the console? Tell me how the two strategies are even the same? The point is you can't because they are not and they never were. All you've done is made assumptions of the hardware.
Wow! It seems you had to really dig under the cushions for that.
Was pretty easy, just did a search and picked a few examples. But, of course, it helps that I'm not a blind fanboi. Which reminds me, do you have a single post suggesting Sony did anything wrong like ever?
I linked Cerny himself talking about their bc. They have to dumb down their cores, their bandwidth and their GPU clock to be in PS4 mode. Thats not an approach that can handle generational shifts in hardware, as he points out that when you start reducing prices using the old hardware insider the new system is cut. Remember PS3 was backwards compatible until it wasn't (which, like their forced removal of Linux from user systems after selling it with that as a feature would be a great example for your project to say anything remotely negative about them).
But you're still misrepresenting my opinion. I am saying they put that 36 CU constraint on themselves when they did the promise to have BC (unless they were going with 72, which is my guess for the PS5 pro). I'm not saying they did it and decided they needed to catch up. They simply decided to obliterate load times, and if people who can't do the math enough decide to spread the ridiculous notion that those top speeds are going to be used in minutes to minute gameplay, they're not going to stop them.
Fortunately for them, they've got their PR army (have you been promoted yet?) and of course great enough beautiful 30fps single player games that you'll get to play, and for those shining moments you can take pride. You know, while the rest of the time you're playing worse versions of multiplatform games two seconds sooner.
I'm saying that they had BC in mind the entire time when building the new hardware, there is no reason to believe they are absolutely tied to using that number of CU's just for BC, they could add more and just disable them like they did before if that was the issue.
The Pro was a new thing, nobody had done that kind of mid-gen upgrade before in that way and it was clearly the most cost effective way to do it. The PS5 was always going to go with faster clocks and a lot of devs are happy with that choice. I highly doubt that their top priority when designing the PS5 was that it played PS4 games, I'm sure that was a goal but not the main driver of their design decisions.
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would the OS have anything to do with it having such a limited list of games that are BC? It could be the reason why not all are and why games released June 2020 or later will be BC on the ps5, no?
Was pretty easy, just did a search and picked a few examples. But, of course, it helps that I'm not a blind fanboi. Which reminds me, do you have a single post suggesting Sony did anything wrong like ever?
I linked Cerny himself talking about their bc. They have to dumb down their cores, their bandwidth and their GPU clock to be in PS4 mode. Thats not an approach that can handle generational shifts in hardware, as he points out that when you start reducing prices using the old hardware insider the new system is cut. Remember PS3 was backwards compatible until it wasn't (which, like their forced removal of Linux from user systems after selling it with that as a feature would be a great example for your project to say anything remotely negative about them).
But you're still misrepresenting my opinion. I am saying they put that 36 CU constraint on themselves when they did the promise to have BC (unless they were going with 72, which is my guess for the PS5 pro). I'm not saying they did it and decided they needed to catch up. They simply decided to obliterate load times, and if people who can't do the math enough decide to spread the ridiculous notion that those top speeds are going to be used in minutes to minute gameplay, they're not going to stop them.
First off, I don't need to get into a pissing match with you to prove my point even though I easily could, but that is an irrelevant discussion to me. Apparently, you need to in order to make yourself valid. But as I said before, I am not the least bit convinced at all.
Moreover, that link you put up is also attached to everything else Cerny said in that same breathe. Sure, BC is something they wanted to achieve, but it wasn’t the number one goal to why the clock was turned up is what I am telling you. He also wanted fewer CUs in the console to make sure they were used fully and efficiently for important tasks. Having a slow clock on that would hinder a true next-gen experience. Why would he even say this AFTER he already compared it to more CUs of the PS4 if BC was his only reason? Answer that for me.
And FYI, Linux was removed because it allowed the console to easily be jailbroken.
Also, they didn't promise BC. Not once did they ever come out and say the next console would be BC. It was something that was announced right then during that speech. As far as we know, the next console could have just as easily lacked it or allowed it via digital form and we likely would have never been the wiser as to why that was since the last two consoles lacked it. They obviously had a different goal in mind, one that promised better results over an expensive GPU crammed with a bunch of CUs. You say they backed themselves into a corner because you are not the one using the hardware nor the one behind its engineering. It was obviously a strategic decision -- especially with all those "30fps single player games" that i'll get to play, as you so boldly like putting it:
A former principal software engineer on the PS5 has given some insight into the constraints that keep the console from running games at 60fps as a standard. On WCCFTECH, Matt Hargett points out in a tweet that the problem is not with the console, but with players' TVs. He writes that a typical cheap 4K TV can only do 4:2:0 HDR at 4K and 60hz, but can push the HDR to 4:2:2 at 4K and 30hz. Most game developers would rather have their games look good in 4K than have them run at 60fps, and it seems they must sacrifice one or the other. Developers want their games looking "filmic" as Hargett puts it, and want more people to be able to experience their games in sharp detail and bright colors.
Next-Gen Games On PS5 Will Continue To Have 30 FPS Options & Here's Why
Next-Gen PS5 games will continue to perform at 30fps, with only a few games having the option of 60fps.
screenrant.com
There's making a decision and explaining a decision. I think the decision was made, and that was his explanation. I refuse to believe that a distinguished engineer would choose to limit the capacity of the console by keeping the hardware narrow and clocking the hell out of it, which greatly impacts voltage in an exponential way, instead of going wide and having the abiilty to work with reasonable power draws for the same work and more room to push for heavier tasks. Especially since they can't even sustain those speeds and the CPU at their 'as much as' speeds simultaneously. But I would believe that a distinguished engineer, who has a corporate mandate to support BC and is precluded from doubling the CU count from the Pro would do whatever he could to make a great machine within those limitations and frame the discussion about it to maximize whatever he could from it. The fact that they got the console to run with those clock speeds is impressive enough. Just can't wait to see how far beyond the voltage curve they have to go to get there, and how far the CPU is going to fall further behind when devs are pushing those GPUs.
So they don't put it in going forward (as, you know, they did with BC that gen). You don't force remove it from consoles that already had it - if they were already jailbroken that does nothing, if they weren't you took away something the consumer paid for. It's a s***ty move.
The clock speeds are done in milliseconds during this transition, just as Cerny said:
Both, for the most part, will remain capped at their specs when that game demands it as they are ran in constant boost mode. I told you, it was designed to be efficient. An example of this is if a particular area of the game only required 80% of the processor, it will only use that 80% and send the other 20% to the other processor rather than wasting 100% of those clocks from that processor constantly ( as a result, driving up the power level) when it doesn't need it -- y'know, and "sweezing out a few extra pixels" like Cerny said. The processors are constantly shifting gears all the time.
Moreover, I could easily say the same about Microsoft and their support for Kinect 2.0, but this is not to see whose member is bigger. In the PS3, the OS allowed hackers to go beyond just jail breaking the console since it was basically a computer, so Sony had no choice but to remove this feature. On the BC side, this didn't disable the platforms that supported BC, however. It simply removed the OS and that doorway. That is it.
Shawn Jelsic has Sony ever done anything wrong in your opinion?
Fewer CU's and higher clock speed is more impressive than more CU's and lower clocks according to Mr C and I agree with him.First off, I don't need to get into a pissing match with you to prove my point even though I easily could, but that is an irrelevant discussion to me. Apparently, you need to in order to make yourself valid. But as I said before, I am not the least bit convinced at all.
Moreover, that link you put up is also attached to everything else Cerny said in that same breathe. Sure, BC is something they wanted to achieve, but it wasn’t the number one goal to why the clock was turned up is what I am telling you. He also wanted fewer CUs in the console to make sure they were used fully and efficiently for important tasks. Having a slow clock on that would hinder a true next-gen experience. Why would he even say this AFTER he already compared it to more CUs of the PS4 if BC was his only reason? Answer that for me.
And FYI, Linux was removed because it allowed the console to easily be jailbroken.
Also, they didn't promise BC. Not once did they ever come out and say the next console would be BC. It was something that was announced right then during that speech. As far as we know, the next console could have just as easily lacked it or allowed it via digital form and we likely would have never been the wiser as to why that was since the last two consoles lacked it. They obviously had a different goal in mind, one that promised better results over an expensive GPU crammed with a bunch of CUs. You say they backed themselves into a corner because you are not the one using the hardware nor the one behind its engineering. It was obviously a strategic decision -- especially with all those "30fps single player games" that i'll get to play, as you so boldly like putting it:
A former principal software engineer on the PS5 has given some insight into the constraints that keep the console from running games at 60fps as a standard. On WCCFTECH, Matt Hargett points out in a tweet that the problem is not with the console, but with players' TVs. He writes that a typical cheap 4K TV can only do 4:2:0 HDR at 4K and 60hz, but can push the HDR to 4:2:2 at 4K and 30hz. Most game developers would rather have their games look good in 4K than have them run at 60fps, and it seems they must sacrifice one or the other. Developers want their games looking "filmic" as Hargett puts it, and want more people to be able to experience their games in sharp detail and bright colors.
Next-Gen Games On PS5 Will Continue To Have 30 FPS Options & Here's Why
Next-Gen PS5 games will continue to perform at 30fps, with only a few games having the option of 60fps.
It fits the 'vs' category. 10 million on GP vs 2.5 million on PS Now.
Microsoft's Xbox is already crushing Sony's PlayStation when it comes to creating the 'Netflix of gaming' — and it has huge implications for next-gen consoles
- Like movies, TV, and music before it, the video game industry is currently going through a paradigm shift toward subscription services.
- Microsoft's Xbox has Xbox Game Pass, and Sony's PlayStation has PlayStation Now — subscription services that offer access to an evolving library of games.
- Despite the massive success of Sony's PlayStation 4, with over 100 million sold, just 2.2 million people are using PlayStation Now. Microsoft's Xbox Game Pass service has over 10 million users, and estimates put Xbox One console sales at around half of PS4.
- It's an especially notable metric as Sony and Microsoft compete to build the "Netflix for games" — a primary component of the next-generation of PlayStation and Xbox consoles scheduled to arrive this holiday season.
Most people are now paying the regular price and Phil confirmed Game Pass is now well past break even.
Correct thread:
Game Pass >>>>>>>>>>>>>> PS Now
yawnIt fits the 'vs' category. 10 million on GP vs 2.5 million on PS Now.
Microsoft's Xbox is already crushing Sony's PlayStation when it comes to creating the 'Netflix of gaming' — and it has huge implications for next-gen consoles
- Like movies, TV, and music before it, the video game industry is currently going through a paradigm shift toward subscription services.
- Microsoft's Xbox has Xbox Game Pass, and Sony's PlayStation has PlayStation Now — subscription services that offer access to an evolving library of games.
- Despite the massive success of Sony's PlayStation 4, with over 100 million sold, just 2.2 million people are using PlayStation Now. Microsoft's Xbox Game Pass service has over 10 million users, and estimates put Xbox One console sales at around half of PS4.
- It's an especially notable metric as Sony and Microsoft compete to build the "Netflix for games" — a primary component of the next-generation of PlayStation and Xbox consoles scheduled to arrive this holiday season.
One gives out tons of free trials plus $1 subs the other has always had less promotions.
Those $1 subs are insane value especially those who got a couple years worth.
It fits the 'vs' category. 10 million on GP vs 2.5 million on PS Now.
Microsoft's Xbox is already crushing Sony's PlayStation when it comes to creating the 'Netflix of gaming' — and it has huge implications for next-gen consoles
- Like movies, TV, and music before it, the video game industry is currently going through a paradigm shift toward subscription services.
- Microsoft's Xbox has Xbox Game Pass, and Sony's PlayStation has PlayStation Now — subscription services that offer access to an evolving library of games.
- Despite the massive success of Sony's PlayStation 4, with over 100 million sold, just 2.2 million people are using PlayStation Now. Microsoft's Xbox Game Pass service has over 10 million users, and estimates put Xbox One console sales at around half of PS4.
- It's an especially notable metric as Sony and Microsoft compete to build the "Netflix for games" — a primary component of the next-generation of PlayStation and Xbox consoles scheduled to arrive this holiday season.
Its hard to really say Sony is trying all that much to compete there
Tell me you don't believe MS isn't counting everyone who's ever used the service LOL?
No clue, maybe the ones who are using said trails at the time they were counted. I know it’s a one time thing too since it’s linked to your GT. I’d honestly thought it’s be a much higher number than that....how long has it been a thing?
The downplay of the significance of Gamepass is mind-blowing! Also, PSNow will relaunch on Azure. Microsoft literally owns the platform on which the competition's platform will run on. Azure + Gamepass = win/win for Microsoft.
I just hope they keep a downloadable version of Gamepass games alongside the streaming versions. My only fear is they get rid of them.
I just hope they keep a downloadable version of Gamepass games alongside the streaming versions. My only fear is they get rid of them.
It's more impressive to Cerny because IT'S HIS BOX. He did what he could to work within the budget Sony gave him. Having more CU's makes it a bigger chip which = more expensive.
Ok, to start things off, if you are expecting to move me with your question, you're wasting your time. I see comments of this caliber as a cheap cop-out and quite immature to distract from the bigger issue - one that no one wants to talk about, obviously. In addition to that, there are more undercover trolls here who's only agenda is simply to troll, and with trolling comes misrepresented information for us true gamers. If you have a problem with me clearing some of that information up due to your own insecurities, then you are probably the problem.
Carry on...
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