Official Thread XBOX Hardware

My Current Console Is....


  • Total voters
    37
Status
Not open for further replies.
Based off the recent IGN Japan video that was posted, someone on Reset made this chart (again, these are deductions from the info in that video). Can anyone confirm/deny the conclusions?


so lets take the findings of this video to the logical conclusion.

PS5 -
  • navi 10 lite.
  • 9.2 tflops.
  • no true hardware rt.
  • no vrs.
XSX -
  • navi 21 lite.
  • 12 tflops.
  • hardware rt.
  • vrs.
  • 7nm+. 20% more die space. so that die is actually a 485mm2 7nm die. 80 cus?
  • All other rdna 2.0 improvements. 20% per tflops arch improvements is to be expected. so 12 rdna 2.0 tflops perform like 14.4 rdna 1.0 tflops. so it's more like 9.2 tflops vs 14.4 tflops.
  • VRS offers 20% more performance so we are now looking at a 17 rdna 1.0 tflops gpu vs a 9.2 tflops rdna 1.0 gpu.

Ray tracing can be done on the software side. Movie studios have been doing it for like 2 decades. For better results (but more cost to performance and usually more expensive), dedicated ray-tracing hardware is the superior solution. However there CAN be a combination of both to achieve a good cost to performance ratio concerning the end product. It is worth noting that AMD actually had a patent filed in summer of 2019 for a 'hybrid' combination of software AND hardware based ray-tracing which could show up in one or BOTH next gen consoles.
Without getting too technical it uses fixed-function acceleration.

Also Microsoft refers to their ray-tracing solution as "hardware accelerated" probably due to the fact that they have an API that does literally that on the GPU (hardware.) Microsoft DirectX Ray-Tracing Acceleration or the DXR API. Like eVo7 said it is the same thing as hardware but the added Microsoft lingo to it.

Another distinction I want to address is that a GPU doesn't need to be extremely powerful to have hardware based RT. Intel for instance is soon to release some XE GPUs that make use of hardware accelerated Ray Tracing with these GPUs SOLELY dedicated to computing realistic light simulation algorithms in animated movies.
My point is. You can have hardware RT and not be the most powerful hardware around. Something to keep in mind
 
Ray tracing can be done on the software side. Movie studios have been doing it for like 2 decades. For better results (but more cost to performance and usually more expensive), dedicated ray-tracing hardware is the superior solution. However there CAN be a combination of both to achieve a good cost to performance ratio concerning the end product. It is worth noting that AMD actually had a patent filed in summer of 2019 for a 'hybrid' combination of software AND hardware based ray-tracing which could show up in one or BOTH next gen consoles.
Without getting too technical it uses fixed-function acceleration.

Also Microsoft refers to their ray-tracing solution as "hardware accelerated" probably due to the fact that they have an API that does literally that on the GPU (hardware.) Microsoft DirectX Ray-Tracing Acceleration or the DXR API. Like eVo7 said it is the same thing as hardware but the added Microsoft lingo to it.

Another distinction I want to address is that a GPU doesn't need to be extremely powerful to have hardware based RT. Intel for instance is soon to release some XE GPUs that make use of hardware accelerated Ray Tracing with these GPUs SOLELY dedicated to computing realistic light simulation algorithms in animated movies.
My point is. You can have hardware RT and not be the most powerful hardware around. Something to keep in mind

Exactly an RTX 2060 is s good example of having RT hardware and not being the most powerful around, and I'm sure we'll be able to add to that statement as time goes on and RT gets more optimized
 
I'm guessing that the tensor cores on the RTX cards aren't considered dedicated ray tracing hardware since tensor cores can be used for a variety of different workloads.

All other rdna 2.0 improvements. 20% per tflops arch improvements is to be expected. so 12 rdna 2.0 tflops perform like 14.4 rdna 1.0 tflops. so it's more like 9.2 tflops vs 14.4 tflops.

I assumed those tflop numbers were based on GCN which would put the PS5 at Vega56 performance and the Xbox Series X on par with the Vega64. The 5600XT tflops perform at just over 7 tflops of RDNA but it would be just over 11 tflops of GCN.

That's raw performance, of course. I suspect that every game will use some sort of reconstruction to reach 4k/60.
 
Last edited:
That's raw performance, of course. I suspect that every game will use some sort of reconstruction to reach 4k/60.

I think for a while they'll get 4k/60 solid, at probably a medium to medium-high preset.
 
I have the feeling the first 2 years will be that way.

Casuals would crucify them if they did that. Most developers will sacrifice native resolution in order to improve fidelity. Sitting at a reasonable distance with dynamic scaling, temporal reconstruction, and variable rate shading on you won't be able to tell the difference anyway.



I've heard that the ray tracing in some games is very noticeable. So that and next gen physics engines might be the difference maker.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Frozpot
I might be in the minority here, but Gears should take a Halo like break.

The Coalition is talented and I would like to see a new IP from them.

Same goes for 343 to be honest.

Halo and gears will always be major franchises for the Xbox brand, but I feel like the franchises have grown super stagnant.

I just would love to see them build new franchises from the ground up.
I totally agree. Honestly, they should have done this starting back in the Bungie days. I think that there should always be a pause after 2 consecutive games to do something different. It would help keep that creative spark, and maybe they wouldn't get so bored, especially in the art department.
 
I might be in the minority here, but Gears should take a Halo like break.

The Coalition is talented and I would like to see a new IP from them.

Same goes for 343 to be honest.

Halo and gears will always be major franchises for the Xbox brand, but I feel like the franchises have grown super stagnant.

I just would love to see them build new franchises from the ground up.
ONLY if a s*** load of content comes to Gears 5 to hold us off.
 
I might be in the minority here, but Gears should take a Halo like break.

The Coalition is talented and I would like to see a new IP from them.

Same goes for 343 to be honest.

Halo and gears will always be major franchises for the Xbox brand, but I feel like the franchises have grown super stagnant.

I just would love to see them build new franchises from the ground up.

I agree with the Halo sentiment. While I've enjoyed Halo Wars 1-2, Halo 4 and 5 were uninteresting and uninspired IMO. I can usually get 2 or more campaign runs on Halo then switch to multiplayer for a while. With 4-5 I did the campaign once and played the multiplayer for a few weeks then never picked it up again. 343 Halos just haven't been as fun a Bungie's for me. Maybe a new IP or change in genre may help them.
 
I agree with the Halo sentiment. While I've enjoyed Halo Wars 1-2, Halo 4 and 5 were uninteresting and uninspired IMO. I can usually get 2 or more campaign runs on Halo then switch to multiplayer for a while. With 4-5 I did the campaign once and played the multiplayer for a few weeks then never picked it up again. 343 Halos just haven't been as fun a Bungie's for me. Maybe a new IP or change in genre may help them.

I feel like maybe creative freedom to build a whole new universe from the ground up would get creative juices flowing that can only benefit halo in the long run.
 
Halo, like Gears is one or those unique titles where too many gamers depend on its gameplay to stay relatively the same due to its MP. Change it too much, you risk loosing alot of its fanbase. Change to little and people will complain their the same. Its gotta be a rough spot for TC and 343i.
 
  • Agree
Reactions: Two Pennys Worth


Spencer says Xbox are "going to be bold" with their decisions for the Series X
Heidi Nicholas4 hours ago
Head of Xbox Phil Spencer appeared on Gamertag Radio to take part in the show's 1,000th episode, and discussed the thinking behind the Seriex X reveal, as well as the company's hopes for a stronger Xbox presence in the Japanese market.

Phil Spencer

"The response has been great, but to be completely honest with you...it could have been a disaster”, he said, talking about Microsoft's surprise reveal of the Xbox Series X at last year's Game Awards. Nor was he a fan of the idea at first, it seems, when it was proposed to him. "The decision was actually really pushed forward by one of our marketing leads," he said, "and she’s awesome, and she just stood up in a room and she said, 'we should go do something bold, something we’ve never done before... let’s face it, we’re not in the market position we wanted to be in in this last generation- I don’t think we’re going to get to disrupt and grow our business just doing what we’ve always done'". It seems Microsoft are keeping that in mind as they move towards the launch of the Xbox Series X. "We’re trying to think about things in a different way," Spencer says; "we’re definitely not going to be meek. We’re going to be bold in what we’re trying to go do.”

Spencer also had a lot to say about his hopes for a stronger and more established presence for the Xbox overall, but especially in Japan. “When I got into this job, the thing I was seeing were third parties skipping Xbox One and not even shipping on that platform," he said. "There'll still be examples of that and every one of them causes me pain, but the number one thing I wanted to do when I started in this role was to get back on the ground a couple times a year playing with the studio heads, playing their games, and... making them know I had a commitment to their global success." He mentions that he was pleased with the number of Japanese published games they had at E3, adding, "I’ve been really proud of the way that we built a partnership with almost all the publishers there". Spencer elaborates on Xbox's successful partnerships in Japan, saying the biggest feedback he gets from his time over there is from the studio heads; "they say, 'the people on our studio love working with you guys. They just wish they saw more Xboxes in the stores around here'. You want to be working on a game and have the platform that it's going to be on, be seen in your home country. You want your friends to be able to play it".

Spencer seems keen to focus on building that Xbox presence in Japan, saying, "our market in Japan for Xbox is important to us." Sony and Nintendo are obviously well established over there, and Spencer notes this, adding, "I don’t know that we’re winning in Japan any time soon, but the position that we have in Japan today from a platform isn’t acceptable to me". To ensure they start out in a stronger position in Japan as soon as the Xbox Series X launches, Spencer says they're "going to do a much better job with this next upcoming launch", they're not going to wait for ten months before they launch in Japan as they did with the Xbox One, and they're planning on a big push to publicise their Game Pass and xCloud services. Spencer also seems hopeful for more first party content being developed in Japan. "I think the Japanese market is specifically important because of the creative community there, because of the gamer community there, and I want us, I want Xbox, to mean more there than it does today".

Overall, he seems enthusiastic about the potential of the Xbox Series X, and the wider possibilities of a more established Xbox presence in Japan. "It takes time," he said. "I’m still gonna see some things get announced that aren’t on our platform and I cringe every time that happens, but relative to four or five years ago, I feel good about our progress," he adds, concluding that Microsoft want "to continue to increase the relevance and importance of Xbox to people.”
 
  • Like
Reactions: Edge BC and Kvally


Spencer says Xbox are "going to be bold" with their decisions for the Series X
Heidi Nicholas4 hours ago
Head of Xbox Phil Spencer appeared on Gamertag Radio to take part in the show's 1,000th episode, and discussed the thinking behind the Seriex X reveal, as well as the company's hopes for a stronger Xbox presence in the Japanese market.

Phil Spencer

"The response has been great, but to be completely honest with you...it could have been a disaster”, he said, talking about Microsoft's surprise reveal of the Xbox Series X at last year's Game Awards. Nor was he a fan of the idea at first, it seems, when it was proposed to him. "The decision was actually really pushed forward by one of our marketing leads," he said, "and she’s awesome, and she just stood up in a room and she said, 'we should go do something bold, something we’ve never done before... let’s face it, we’re not in the market position we wanted to be in in this last generation- I don’t think we’re going to get to disrupt and grow our business just doing what we’ve always done'". It seems Microsoft are keeping that in mind as they move towards the launch of the Xbox Series X. "We’re trying to think about things in a different way," Spencer says; "we’re definitely not going to be meek. We’re going to be bold in what we’re trying to go do.”

Spencer also had a lot to say about his hopes for a stronger and more established presence for the Xbox overall, but especially in Japan. “When I got into this job, the thing I was seeing were third parties skipping Xbox One and not even shipping on that platform," he said. "There'll still be examples of that and every one of them causes me pain, but the number one thing I wanted to do when I started in this role was to get back on the ground a couple times a year playing with the studio heads, playing their games, and... making them know I had a commitment to their global success." He mentions that he was pleased with the number of Japanese published games they had at E3, adding, "I’ve been really proud of the way that we built a partnership with almost all the publishers there". Spencer elaborates on Xbox's successful partnerships in Japan, saying the biggest feedback he gets from his time over there is from the studio heads; "they say, 'the people on our studio love working with you guys. They just wish they saw more Xboxes in the stores around here'. You want to be working on a game and have the platform that it's going to be on, be seen in your home country. You want your friends to be able to play it".

Spencer seems keen to focus on building that Xbox presence in Japan, saying, "our market in Japan for Xbox is important to us." Sony and Nintendo are obviously well established over there, and Spencer notes this, adding, "I don’t know that we’re winning in Japan any time soon, but the position that we have in Japan today from a platform isn’t acceptable to me". To ensure they start out in a stronger position in Japan as soon as the Xbox Series X launches, Spencer says they're "going to do a much better job with this next upcoming launch", they're not going to wait for ten months before they launch in Japan as they did with the Xbox One, and they're planning on a big push to publicise their Game Pass and xCloud services. Spencer also seems hopeful for more first party content being developed in Japan. "I think the Japanese market is specifically important because of the creative community there, because of the gamer community there, and I want us, I want Xbox, to mean more there than it does today".

Overall, he seems enthusiastic about the potential of the Xbox Series X, and the wider possibilities of a more established Xbox presence in Japan. "It takes time," he said. "I’m still gonna see some things get announced that aren’t on our platform and I cringe every time that happens, but relative to four or five years ago, I feel good about our progress," he adds, concluding that Microsoft want "to continue to increase the relevance and importance of Xbox to people.”

Phil knows he has a problem in Japan and its good to see him admit it. But somehow he's got to stop the bleeding with Japanese devs and publishers. He can't keep having them outright skipping the xbox. Its a very unenviable task and I wish him the best.
 
  • Agree
Reactions: karmakid


Spencer says Xbox are "going to be bold" with their decisions for the Series X
Heidi Nicholas4 hours ago
Head of Xbox Phil Spencer appeared on Gamertag Radio to take part in the show's 1,000th episode, and discussed the thinking behind the Seriex X reveal, as well as the company's hopes for a stronger Xbox presence in the Japanese market.

Phil Spencer

"The response has been great, but to be completely honest with you...it could have been a disaster”, he said, talking about Microsoft's surprise reveal of the Xbox Series X at last year's Game Awards. Nor was he a fan of the idea at first, it seems, when it was proposed to him. "The decision was actually really pushed forward by one of our marketing leads," he said, "and she’s awesome, and she just stood up in a room and she said, 'we should go do something bold, something we’ve never done before... let’s face it, we’re not in the market position we wanted to be in in this last generation- I don’t think we’re going to get to disrupt and grow our business just doing what we’ve always done'". It seems Microsoft are keeping that in mind as they move towards the launch of the Xbox Series X. "We’re trying to think about things in a different way," Spencer says; "we’re definitely not going to be meek. We’re going to be bold in what we’re trying to go do.”

Spencer also had a lot to say about his hopes for a stronger and more established presence for the Xbox overall, but especially in Japan. “When I got into this job, the thing I was seeing were third parties skipping Xbox One and not even shipping on that platform," he said. "There'll still be examples of that and every one of them causes me pain, but the number one thing I wanted to do when I started in this role was to get back on the ground a couple times a year playing with the studio heads, playing their games, and... making them know I had a commitment to their global success." He mentions that he was pleased with the number of Japanese published games they had at E3, adding, "I’ve been really proud of the way that we built a partnership with almost all the publishers there". Spencer elaborates on Xbox's successful partnerships in Japan, saying the biggest feedback he gets from his time over there is from the studio heads; "they say, 'the people on our studio love working with you guys. They just wish they saw more Xboxes in the stores around here'. You want to be working on a game and have the platform that it's going to be on, be seen in your home country. You want your friends to be able to play it".

Spencer seems keen to focus on building that Xbox presence in Japan, saying, "our market in Japan for Xbox is important to us." Sony and Nintendo are obviously well established over there, and Spencer notes this, adding, "I don’t know that we’re winning in Japan any time soon, but the position that we have in Japan today from a platform isn’t acceptable to me". To ensure they start out in a stronger position in Japan as soon as the Xbox Series X launches, Spencer says they're "going to do a much better job with this next upcoming launch", they're not going to wait for ten months before they launch in Japan as they did with the Xbox One, and they're planning on a big push to publicise their Game Pass and xCloud services. Spencer also seems hopeful for more first party content being developed in Japan. "I think the Japanese market is specifically important because of the creative community there, because of the gamer community there, and I want us, I want Xbox, to mean more there than it does today".

Overall, he seems enthusiastic about the potential of the Xbox Series X, and the wider possibilities of a more established Xbox presence in Japan. "It takes time," he said. "I’m still gonna see some things get announced that aren’t on our platform and I cringe every time that happens, but relative to four or five years ago, I feel good about our progress," he adds, concluding that Microsoft want "to continue to increase the relevance and importance of Xbox to people.”
here is my question, let say if somehow XBOX does goes big in Japan and sells like really good, and have a good install base. How will that say that the Japanese studios will still not put it in that platform because it's not a Japanese made console?

You can have a big install base but if these Japanese say "Nah", then what?

This is why MS should just build a studio in Japan instead of buying, I am sure they are people who want to be hungry and do something different.
 
here is my question, let say if somehow XBOX does goes big in Japan and sells like really good, and have a good install base. How will that say that the Japanese studios will still not put it in that platform because it's not a Japanese made console?

You can have a big install base but if these Japanese say "Nah", then what?

This is why MS should just build a studio in Japan instead of buying, I am sure they are people who want to be hungry and do something different.

IMO they almost have to build their own studio in Japan. A sign that you care about the region enough to set up roots.

When the 360 was on top of the ps3, we did see more Japanese studios experiment on the 360. With the mistakes of the X1 and subsequently falling behind, it was all but abandoned.

That said.... if they bought Capcom or Square-Enix( not likely at all), or at the minimum worked out new IP deals or exclusive deals with them, I think Xbox might fare a bit better over there.

This next gen, Phil loses any semblance of excuses for not competing. He's been in charge of xbox since 2017. This launch and everything next gen is on him.
 
IMO they almost have to build their own studio in Japan. A sign that you care about the region enough to set up roots.

When the 360 was on top of the ps3, we did see more Japanese studios experiment on the 360. With the mistakes of the X1 and subsequently falling behind, it was all but abandoned.

That said.... if they bought Capcom or Square-Enix( not likely at all), or at the minimum worked out new IP deals or exclusive deals with them, I think Xbox might fare a bit better over there.

This next gen, Phil loses any semblance of excuses for not competing. He's been in charge of xbox since 2017. This launch and everything next gen is on him.
Really?
I think the talent will leave the company with no one. This is way MS didnt buy Squaresoft back then be cause they fear that will happen.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.