The End of the World: A Political Thread. A New Hope coming soon!

Status
Not open for further replies.
Andy said:
I disagree. He wants the wall. He has good reason to want it. Illegal immigration is a serious problem. Also, he promised the wall (very loudly), and he wants to do what he promised. Also, his base wants the wall, and he wants to do what his base wants. Plus, at this point, he's got a lot of ego riding on getting some type of "wall" built.
Click to expand...

This argument feels like semantics to me as to me it sounds like you both kind of agree. He wants the wall because he promised it but I doubt he personally cares about a wall or even about illegal immigration. I think if he really wanted it beyond just not wanting the criticism something would have happened in the first two years where they had the best chance to do so.
 
Andy said:
I disagree. He wants the wall. He has good reason to want it. Illegal immigration is a serious problem. Also, he promised the wall (very loudly), and he wants to do what he promised. Also, his base wants the wall, and he wants to do what his base wants. Plus, at this point, he's got a lot of ego riding on getting some type of "wall" built.
Click to expand...

A wall won't fix the problem, which is refugees flooding the ports of entry (see the article I posted at the top of this page).

If his base wanted a wall, there would be a wall. He had 2 years of a GOP majority in congress and it didn't happen.

The people coming over the southern border aren't Mexican, and they aren't sneaking over. They are from Central and South American countries and they immediately request refugee status and asylum.

The only thing Trump has done that is effective is to not let asylum seekers in the country. That kind of policy at least is cost effective and reasonable at actually slowing down people from coming in. A wall will not do one damn thing and everyone knows it.
 
I think everyone is on the same page that illegal immigration is a problem that needs attention. How we go about it is the divide. I feel, the path to citizenship needs to be streamlined and lest costly. It cost my friend more than $20,000, and the fear to never be able to travel anywhere, to become a citizen. Even the cheapest immigration lawyers will cost you $6,000+. Then there's the years waiting. The people that were born here (DACA) should become U.S. citizens, since they are. That's a no brainer.
 
Kerosene31 said:
A wall won't fix the problem, which is refugees flooding the ports of entry (see the article I posted at the top of this page).

If his base wanted a wall, there would be a wall. He had 2 years of a GOP majority in congress and it didn't happen.

The people coming over the southern border aren't Mexican, and they aren't sneaking over. They are from Central and South American countries and they immediately request refugee status and asylum.

The only thing Trump has done that is effective is to not let asylum seekers in the country. That kind of policy at least is cost effective and reasonable at actually slowing down people from coming in. A wall will not do one damn thing and everyone knows it.
Click to expand...

Disagree with the last sentence. A wall would help to solve the illegal immigration problem.

Disagree with the assumption that, since he doesn't have a wall, he must have never really wanted one (since if he wanted one, he'd have one). I don't really buy that line of reasoning.

His base does want a wall. But it's not up to his base. Trump had a lot of opposition to the wall. It's not like he could just snap his fingers and get a wall built.

Anyway, I'm going on too long about something that doesn't matter all that much.

I think Trump wants a wall. He likes building stuff.

I heard he's going to some wall-building photo op next week. From what I've seen, it looks more like a fence than a wall.
 
Last edited:
Andy said:
Disagree with the last sentence (of course it will do something to solve the illegal immigration problem).

Disagree with the assumption that, since he doesn't have a wall, he must have never really wanted one (since if he wanted one, he'd have one). That's faulty reasoning.

His base does want a wall. But it's not up to his base. Trump had a lot of opposition to the wall. It's not like he could just snap his fingers and get a wall built.

Anyway, I'm going on too long about something that doesn't matter all that much.
Click to expand...

Well if you are going to spend the many billions it would take it needs to do more than just something. Unless they ban ladders in Mexico then it has a shot.

I think if it was a priority they would have played hardball over it at any point than when it was the absolute worst time to do so. He should have just kept telling people it was being built. People would have believed it.
 
yankeessuck said:
Well if you are going to spend the many billions it would take it needs to do more than just something. Unless they ban ladders in Mexico then it has a shot.

I think if it was a priority they would have played hardball over it at any point than when it was the absolute worst time to do so. He should have just kept telling people it was being built. People would have believed it.
Click to expand...
He's doing just that. He's claimed it's mostly built and people, dumb people, are eating it up.
 
"Build that fence!" doesn't have the same ring to it.
 
Andy said:
Disagree with the last sentence. A wall would help to solve the illegal immigration problem.

Disagree with the assumption that, since he doesn't have a wall, he must have never really wanted one (since if he wanted one, he'd have one). I don't really buy that line of reasoning.

His base does want a wall. But it's not up to his base. Trump had a lot of opposition to the wall. It's not like he could just snap his fingers and get a wall built.

Anyway, I'm going on too long about something that doesn't matter all that much.

I think Trump wants a wall. He likes building stuff.

I heard he's going to some wall-building photo op next week. From what I've seen, it looks more like a fence than a wall.
Click to expand...

The people in his way are his own party. When Obama had a Dem majority all over, they voted through Obamacare and there wasn't a damn thing the GOP could do about it. Trump had this same majority until this January. The GOP refused to bring it to a vote. They wanted Trump to drop it without looking like they were going against him.

A wall won't work. How do I know? Because we started building a fence a decade ago. You know why it stopped? Because of massive cost overruns and eminent domain issues. Don't take my word for it, google it and there's write-ups from all sorts of sources.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Secure_Fence_Act_of_2006

The Republican Party's 2012 platform called upon the "double-layered fencing" to be built as originally called for in 2006 law (prior to the 2007 amendment).[23] The Washington Office on Latin America writes that the extremely high cost of complying with the Secure Fence Act's mandate—estimated at US$4.1 billion, or more than the Border Patrol's entire annual budget of US$3.55 billion—was the main reason that the fence was not fully built
Click to expand...

A 2018 paper by Dartmouth College and Stanford University economists found that "at a construction cost of $7 per person, the fence led to a small reduction in migration but had negligible effects on the economy, with high-skilled US workers losing $4.60 per year in income, and low-skilled US workers gaining just $0.36 per year."
Click to expand...

Things now have changed even more dramatically, as the people come over claim legal asylum.

The only reason the wall is back is because Ann Coulter called Trump a cuck. He's now pushing the "finish the wall" lie to his people.

People are entitled to political opinions, but the facts just can't be disputed. The costs of Trump's wall would explode and run into the same issues.
 
Kerosene31 said:
The only reason the wall is back is because Ann Coulter called Trump a cuck. He's now pushing the "finish the wall" lie to his people.

People are entitled to political opinions, but the facts just can't be disputed. The costs of Trump's wall would explode and run into the same issues.
Click to expand...

What? The only reason Trump wants the wall is because Ann Coulter called him a cuck? Are you kidding? Are these among the facts that can't be disputed?

I see now that you're not saying that the wall would be useless, if it were built. You're saying that it's impossible to build. Ok. He's trying anyhow. We'll see how far he gets.

He also seems to be pivoting back to Obamacare. That one is of personal interest to me.
 
I made a post about all of the awful things democrats did last week. It's too bad republicans are liking it with it being April Fool's Day and all ;)

 
So far Biden, Bernie, Harris, Beto, Warren, Booker, Klobuchar, Hickenlooper, Castro, GIllibrand, Buttigieg, Inslee and Yang are qualified for the debates
 
Andy said:
What? The only reason Trump wants the wall is because Ann Coulter called him a cuck? Are you kidding? Are these among the facts that can't be disputed?

I see now that you're not saying that the wall would be useless, if it were built. You're saying that it's impossible to build. Ok. He's trying anyhow.
Click to expand...

Impossible to build? No, just time consuming, ineffective, and super costly. Oh and the government would have to use eminent domain to take property from private land holders. People picture this vast, empty desert but in reality the border is basically people's back yards in many places. It is impossible to build without far exceeding any reasonable budget.

The costs of the wall greatly exceed the benefits any wall would provide. It really isn't hard. A decade ago we figured this out.
 
Kerosene31 said:
Impossible to build? No, just time consuming, ineffective, and super costly. Oh and the government would have to use eminent domain to take property from private land holders. People picture this vast, empty desert but in reality the border is basically people's back yards in many places. It is impossible to build without far exceeding any reasonable budget.

The costs of the wall greatly exceed the benefits any wall would provide. It really isn't hard. A decade ago we figured this out.
Click to expand...

Did we.
 
Andy said:
What? The only reason Trump wants the wall is because Ann Coulter called him a cuck? Are you kidding? Are these among the facts that can't be disputed?

I see now that you're not saying that the wall would be useless, if it were built. You're saying that it's impossible to build. Ok. He's trying anyhow. We'll see how far he gets.

He also seems to be pivoting back to Obamacare. That one is of personal interest to me.
Click to expand...

Its obviously not a fact but he indicated he would sign what both parties agreed and passed for the budget and then changed his mind once the criticism occurred which was started by Coulter and Rush. This is why the shutdown happened.
 
Andy said:
Did we.
Click to expand...

Most of us did, but I can't speak for you.

The old "wall" was just a fence, and the costs were pretty staggering. I don't see how a much more costly wall would not run into the same problems.

The important thing too is people are coming into the ports of entry and asking for asylum. Build a 20 foot wall with robotic dragons shooting lasers out of their eyes and you'll do little to stop immigration. Especially considering that people are legally seeking asylum for the most part.
 
I could see Biden not wanting to run. It is going to be a grueling campaign for the primary and then you know the winner will be in a grueling ground fight with Trump. You know Trump will be campaigning hard and the Democratic candidate is going to be having to hold constant rallies.
 
How much of he problem is created by destructive trade policies like NAFTA along with waging the War on Drugs. I doubt the companies moving manufacturing south of the border are paying the Mexicans any decent wage even adjusted for currencies.


We are probably causing most of the problem so we should be able to address it as well as looking at trade with South America.

Unless we're comfortable with just sharing the hemisphere with 1 strong economic neighbor? Maybe we've kind of enjoyed our dominance and would like it to continue. It basically creates refugees, but we keep kicking that can down the road.


giuliani-3.jpg
 
Videodrome said:
How much of he problem is created by destructive trade policies like NAFTA along with waging the War on Drugs. I doubt the companies moving manufacturing south of the border are paying the Mexicans any decent wage even adjusted for currencies.


We are probably causing most of the problem so we should be able to address it as well as looking at trade with South America.

Unless we're comfortable with just sharing the hemisphere with 1 strong economic neighbor? Maybe we've kind of enjoyed our dominance and would like it to continue. It basically creates refugees, but we keep kicking that can down the road.
Click to expand...

The problem is we're dealing with rhetoric, not problems. Trump says immigrants are the "problem" and his wall is the solution. Well, that's simply not a properly defined issue. What problem are we trying to solve and what improvements to the country are we making? It comes down to cost/benefit (or at least it should).

-Immigrants "stealing" jobs and lowering wages is largely a myth. Jobs are never the problem, good jobs of course are (as anyone who's ever looked for a job in a bad economy knows all too well).

Politicians claim they can "create" jobs, but that's largely BS. Gov't can only create a good environment for the economy to succeed (and how to do that is a far more complicated problem than I can tackle). Trump is never going to bring back the rust belt back to its former glory, and neither will anyone else unless someone invents a time machine.

The refugee issue is one that is a bigger one and does need to be dealt with (a large part of it is these countries going to sh**, but we don't help). We sort of have these political asylum rules in place, but never thought people nearby would actually start using them on a large scale. I understand that we can't just be the landing zone for tons of people. However spending billions on a wall isn't the answer either. We should be working together towards solutions, not throwing rhetoric back and forth.
 
Kerosene31 said:
I could see Biden not wanting to run. It is going to be a grueling campaign for the primary and then you know the winner will be in a grueling ground fight with Trump. You know Trump will be campaigning hard and the Democratic candidate is going to be having to hold constant rallies.
Click to expand...

If gets bombarded by women saying he touched them in some kind of inappropriate way it might be for the best
 
I'm not a Biden fan, but let me just point out how he might not be able to run because of this stuff, while Mr Grab 'Em By the P***y is President of the United States.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Viktor


How dare those Americans take money from America! Time to build a wall around PR.

:laugh: @ 91 billion
 
yankeessuck said:


How dare those Americans take money from America! Time to build a wall around PR.

:laugh: @ 91 billion
Click to expand...


To be fair, though, he's right to be pissed off if they're taking money from the government for their own gain... that's his territory.
 
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/poli...xt-years-elections/ar-BBVwkHN?ocid=spartandhp

So, basically, the GOP is going to have this great new health insurance policy that'll be cheaper and have lower deductibles than Obamacare (trust them?). They'll only pass it after the election, when they take over the House, Senate and keep the White House. It'll be interesting to see if they can campaign on a "Vote for us, we'll repeal and replace Obamacare when we take all of the government" four years after winning on a "Vote for us, we'll repeal and replace Obamacare when we take all of the government" platform and when they won, accomplished practically none of it.
 
This is the kind of stuff that makes me angry. Someone doesn't like Obamacare? Ok. The GOP claims they can do better? Great! It is all BS though. They had Trump's first 2 years with a rubber stamp congress to pass healthcare and the only thing they had was a scaled down thing that they were too afraid to even vote on (knew they'd lose the midterms even worse).

Heathcare isn't cheap. So what? I'd be ok with the deficit blowing up over healthcare rather than excess military or a needless wall.
 
Kerosene31 said:
This is the kind of stuff that makes me angry. Someone doesn't like Obamacare? Ok. The GOP claims they can do better? Great! It is all BS though. They had Trump's first 2 years with a rubber stamp congress to pass healthcare and the only thing they had was a scaled down thing that they were too afraid to even vote on (knew they'd lose the midterms even worse).

Heathcare isn't cheap. So what? I'd be ok with the deficit blowing up over healthcare rather than excess military or a needless wall.
Click to expand...
I will gladly pay $7000 more in taxes each year to make sure I have healthcare with zero out of pocket costs. I'm currently paying $500 out of pocket each month.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top Bottom
Back