The End of the World: A Political Thread. A New Hope coming soon!

[Kerosene31]

Dems need to move on from only talking about the border at some point, that can't be the focus of the next debate. Yes it's a huge deal and things need to improve but they aren't in power and can't do anything about it and while most of the blame does rest on the republicans most Americans look at that and think "how sad, I hope it gets fixed' or "well we can't just let everyone in" and not "We have to focus all of our attention on that until something changes"

I'm also getting a little tired of AOC, I believe she's right about a lot of things but she's not going to help us win the white house if all she does is suck up all of the oxygen on the Democratic side, I'm also not thrilled with her playing the race card against that do nothing Pelosi. Yeah Pelosi sucks but her talking about that "squad" has nothing to do with their race it has to do with them having a different agenda, AOC also pulled the gender card against that ass hat Ben Shapiro when he wanted to debate her, that is weak and lazy IMO.

The right WANTS AOC front and center and they WANT immigration the same. They especially want us playing the race card against ourselves.

Fox News has AOC on their front page basically every day.

Our opinion isn't super important though - who matters are those middle of the road folks in the rust belt. I'm guessing she (and the evil caricature that gets painted of her) scares away those voters we so need.

I don't mind her, to me, she's picking up the Bernie torch (and already doing a better job). I'll vote Democrat no matter what she does, she doesn't impact my decision. I bet the swing votes we need don't feel the same.

The problems with AOC are that:
-she can't win (obviously)
-she can "lose" the election for us.

 

[yankeessuck]

The right WANTS AOC front and center and they WANT immigration the same. They especially want us playing the race card against ourselves.

Fox News has AOC on their front page basically every day.

Our opinion isn't super important though - who matters are those middle of the road folks in the rust belt. I'm guessing she (and the evil caricature that gets painted of her) scares away those voters we so need.

I don't mind her, to me, she's picking up the Bernie torch (and already doing a better job). I'll vote Democrat no matter what she does, she doesn't impact my decision. I bet the swing votes we need don't feel the same.

The problems with AOC are that:
-she can't win (obviously)
-she can "lose" the election for us.

I called this as soon as she showed up on the scene. The right would attack her so much everyone would start to dislike her and many wouldn't even be able to tell you why.

 

[horns]

Ala Clinton. Clinton's numbers two and 1/2 years before the election were extremely high. Then the Republican machine kicked into high gear. They kept repeating you can't trust her, Benghazi, and suddenly she was guilty of whatever political decision's her husband made. Then the Bernie supporters jumped on the bandwagon and had no problems repeating Republican talking points. . I still can't believe there are people who trusted Trump over Clinton.

AOC is under a microscope. She's held to much higher standards. My biggest advice for her is to always be honest and present facts. Any lies or screw ups will be paraded around by the same people who will turn a blind eye to same within their own party.

Also, attacking immigrants is the new racist chant. They can't say racist things publicly, but they can attack immigrants. Trump's tweet telling progressive Democrats to go back and fix 'broken and crime infested places' they came from is more racist bait. He's also been using Pelosi to try to drive a wedge. Sadly it will work with some Democrats.

 

[yankeessuck]

Ala Clinton. Clinton's numbers two and 1/2 years before the election were extremely high. Then the Republican machine kicked into high gear. They kept repeating you can't trust her, Benghazi, and suddenly she was guilty of whatever political decision's her husband made. Then the Bernie supporters jumped on the bandwagon and had no problems repeating Republican talking points. . I still can't believe there are people who trusted Trump over Clinton.

AOC is under a microscope. She's held to much higher standards. My biggest advice for her is to always be honest and present facts. Any lies or screw ups will be paraded around by the same people who will turn a blind eye to same within their own party.

Also, attacking immigrants is the new racist chant. They can't say racist things publicly, but they can attack immigrants. Trump's tweet telling progressive Democrats to go back and fix 'broken and crime infested places' they came from is more racist bait. He's also been using Pelosi to try to drive a wedge. Sadly it will work with some Democrats.

If everything you say gets that much attention eventually you are eventually going to slip up and say something wrong or stupid. There is just no way around it. For people that would claim to not like purity tests they sure as hell will be looking for her to fail one.

 

[JinCA]

Ala Clinton. Clinton's numbers two and 1/2 years before the election were extremely high. Then the Republican machine kicked into high gear. They kept repeating you can't trust her, Benghazi, and suddenly she was guilty of whatever political decision's her husband made. Then the Bernie supporters jumped on the bandwagon and had no problems repeating Republican talking points. . I still can't believe there are people who trusted Trump over Clinton.

AOC is under a microscope. She's held to much higher standards. My biggest advice for her is to always be honest and present facts. Any lies or screw ups will be paraded around by the same people who will turn a blind eye to same within their own party.

Also, attacking immigrants is the new racist chant. They can't say racist things publicly, but they can attack immigrants. Trump's tweet telling progressive Democrats to go back and fix 'broken and crime infested places' they came from is more racist bait. He's also been using Pelosi to try to drive a wedge. Sadly it will work with some Democrats.

Attacking immigrants isn't new that's been going on for decades but we have to be able to have an honest conversation about immigration without anyone who wants some structure being called a racist. We can't decriminalize crossing the border illegally, that is a crime and it should remain so, they should adjust the law that takes the kids away from their parents but they can't just let anyone in, the laws need to be followed.

Neither side really wants to fix the problem though, they like using it as an issue at election time, Dems seem to think going to the extreme left on illegal immigration will help with the latino vote and republicans use it as red meat to people who mostly live in states that hardly have any Hispanics to begin with.

 

[JinCA]

If everything you say gets that much attention eventually you are eventually going to slip up and say something wrong or stupid. There is just no way around it. For people that would claim to not like purity tests they sure as hell will be looking for her to fail one.

She's the type that would want someone to pass a purity test though, she's a justice democrat and while I agree with most of their platform I also think they are pushing too hard too loudly at the wrong time, wait until we get Trump out before airing the dirty laundry. She's sucking up all of the oxygen in the room and it's not just fox covering her, the media in general seems to want her take on everything. They like the fact that she and Pelosi disagree and seem willing to talk about each other in some form or fashion publicly because it gives them an easy story, they both need to stop talking about each other if they want this to stop.

 

[JinCA]

Ala Clinton. Clinton's numbers two and 1/2 years before the election were extremely high. Then the Republican machine kicked into high gear. They kept repeating you can't trust her, Benghazi, and suddenly she was guilty of whatever political decision's her husband made. Then the Bernie supporters jumped on the bandwagon and had no problems repeating Republican talking points. . I still can't believe there are people who trusted Trump over Clinton.

AOC is under a microscope. She's held to much higher standards. My biggest advice for her is to always be honest and present facts. Any lies or screw ups will be paraded around by the same people who will turn a blind eye to same within their own party.

Also, attacking immigrants is the new racist chant. They can't say racist things publicly, but they can attack immigrants. Trump's tweet telling progressive Democrats to go back and fix 'broken and crime infested places' they came from is more racist bait. He's also been using Pelosi to try to drive a wedge. Sadly it will work with some Democrats.

Clinton was never strong outside of the Democratic party, she was always middle of the road with independents and any polling 2 years out didn't have anything but a generic opponent for her. Just a quick glance and I found a poll showing her at 50% could see themselves supporting her and already 48% opposed her, she was always a controversial person and that was before her email thing blew up which was another problem of her own creation. Some people like to pretend that she was this squeaky clean candidate who was unfairly targeted, while the targeting thing is true to a degree she also had a lot of self inflicted wounds where her response was worse than what she was accused of.

 

[Kerosene31]

Hillary ran a bad campaign and made horrible tactical blunders. She thought that with the "scandal", she was better off to sit back and let Donald talk people out of voting for him. She assumed that people would see him for what he was and do the right thing.

The right is always going to attack and paint you in a negative light. The only way to beat that is to get out there and campaign.

Howard Stern was begging her to go in his radio show and do an interview. He'd have made her more likable and we'd have seen more of the real Hillary. She passed it and countless other opportunities like it.

Not to forget, CNN put Trump on TV 24/7/365/ They thought they were helping... they were. To elect Trump. Tradition Dem voters got a hard look at him and said "why not".

 

[yankeessuck]

She's the type that would want someone to pass a purity test though, she's a justice democrat and while I agree with most of their platform I also think they are pushing too hard too loudly at the wrong time, wait until we get Trump out before airing the dirty laundry. She's sucking up all of the oxygen in the room and it's not just fox covering her, the media in general seems to want her take on everything. They like the fact that she and Pelosi disagree and seem willing to talk about each other in some form or fashion publicly because it gives them an easy story, they both need to stop talking about each other if they want this to stop.

Yeah any fighting between those two is a win for Trump

Clinton was never strong outside of the Democratic party, she was always middle of the road with independents and any polling 2 years out didn't have anything but a generic opponent for her. Just a quick glance and I found a poll showing her at 50% could see themselves supporting her and already 48% opposed her, she was always a controversial person and that was before her email thing blew up which was another problem of her own creation. Some people like to pretend that she was this squeaky clean candidate who was unfairly targeted, while the targeting thing is true to a degree she also had a lot of self inflicted wounds where her response was worse than what she was accused of.

Its not a question of whether there weren't reasons to not like her its about how so many didn't like her and had no reason for it. Or had a reason but would believe every false story about her.

 

[Kerosene31]

Its not a question of whether there weren't reasons to not like her its about how so many didn't like her and had no reason for it. Or had a reason but would believe every false story about her.

She didn't lose because of e-mails. She lost because she didn't go out there and give anyone any other narrative.

 

[Plainview]

trump told democratic woman in congress, who were born here, to go back to their countries because they’re a disaster. The irony...

 

[yankeessuck]

She didn't lose because of e-mails. She lost because she didn't go out there and give anyone any other narrative.

No question she ran a bad campaign but she was disliked before she ever ran for President.

 

[Viktor]

trump told democratic woman in congress, who were born here, to go back to their countries because they’re a disaster. The irony...

Barron seems pretty cool. I'd be ok with him being covered under DACA if Melania and her parents got the boot.

 

[Kerosene31]

No question she ran a bad campaign but she was disliked before she ever ran for President.

It is about steering the narrative. The narrative ended up being about her e-mails plus immigration.

You don't win by changing people's minds on issues, you change their mind on what issue is most important to them.

Trump convinced people in the north that Latinos were taking their jobs. He controlled the narrative (and he still does).

Hillary's response was that only a racist idiot would believe this. The voters then collectively said "hold my beer"

 

[Videodrome]

I felt Hillary was described as being a Warhawk and lot's of people are getting sick of endless war.

Despite crazy insane saber rattling, we haven't started any new sh;t under Trump yet, though he hasn't cared to end or rollback our current military entanglements over there either.

Aside from the specific Benghazi incident, she was enthusiastic about working to topple Gaddafi.

Maybe to many voters, she represents a shady Neo-Liberal side to the Left and neither she or Bill are really trusted.

This isn't to say Trump is trustworthy, but a vote for him is a vote for a personally greedy weirdo over ideology that might seem more dangerous.

 

[JinCA]

No question she ran a bad campaign but she was disliked before she ever ran for President.

She was disliked largely because whenever she messes up she makes some silly excuse or blames other people instead of taking responsibility, she's also very dry and has absolutely zero charisma which is something you need when you are running for office. There are some who don't like her because she's a woman, there are some that don't like her because she's a Clinton and that last name has a lot of baggage attached to it as well but she's also caused plenty of her own problems.

 

[JinCA]

It is about steering the narrative. The narrative ended up being about her e-mails plus immigration.

You don't win by changing people's minds on issues, you change their mind on what issue is most important to them.

Trump convinced people in the north that Latinos were taking their jobs. He controlled the narrative (and he still does).

Hillary's response was that only a racist idiot would believe this. The voters then collectively said "hold my beer"

Remember when she was having a town hall (I think it was a town hall) and stupidly bragged about how she was going to put a ton of coal miners out of work? then she caught herself and tried to drag some other state politician who was there with her into it instead of just correcting herself. She's just an awful campaigner and honestly she wasn't spectacular at any of the jobs she held in government either. She was someone with a famous (yet tarnished) last name who a lot of people just didn't trust. You have to be a special kind of off-putting to be bad enough to "lose" an election to Donald Trump.

 

[Videodrome]

Does the Clinton Foundation also seem shady AF with Bill doing lame speeches for donations while visiting questionable foreign countries?

When they do these things they seem like hicks or rubes that somehow becamse sophistacated enough to put one over on other people with they're lawyer training. I mean it just seems shallow like they just want enough education to fleece people.

A mayor of Detroit did the same thing, but he was just so wreckless and blatant about it he was kicked out.

 

[hrudey]

We can't decriminalize crossing the border illegally, that is a crime and it should remain so, they should adjust the law that takes the kids away from their parents but they can't just let anyone in, the laws need to be followed.

Decriminalizing something does not mean making it legal. It means no longer treating it as a straight-up crime, and instead like a civil offense - like jaywalking or speeding or the like. But if that were to happen, we could no longer just keep throwing people in detention centers indefinitely and let the people who run those keep on making big money. Heck, I think (opinion alert) that the main reason for the separations is so they can keep the people in their as billable hours longer - I don't know all the details of the Flores case but it could be a way they're trying to work around the limitations on how long they can keep the kids confined.

Of course, we also should actually respect the law, but bad law is bad law. Make it a civil offense, arrest people who need to be arrested, deport people who need to be deported, and stop throwing people (including American citizens!) into indefinite detention without legal process. We are all endowed by our Creator with inalienable rights, not just those of us who happen to be born white on the right side of the border.

 

[hrudey]

She didn't lose because of e-mails. She lost because she didn't go out there and give anyone any other narrative.

She lost because she only got 2.8M or so more votes, but not enough in three states that she was overconfident in.

 

[hrudey]

Does the Clinton Foundation also seem shady AF with Bill doing lame speeches for donations while visiting questionable foreign countries?

When they do these things they seem like hicks or rubes that somehow becamse sophistacated enough to put one over on other people with they're lawyer training. I mean it just seems shallow like they just want enough education to fleece people.

A mayor of Detroit did the same thing, but he was just so wreckless and blatant about it he was kicked out.

Yeah, and Trump did the same reckless and blatant self-dealing and got punished by... oh, winning the election.

That's the funny thing about all of this. Funny not being the right word, of course. Elephant or donkey goggles sure have a tendency to make people really effective at noticing the shady stuff the "bad guys" are doing, even if the people on their side are doing it just as much. How far are we down that rabbit hole now? Listen to guys caught red-handed like Trump or Duncan Hunter or the insider trading Congressman from upstate NY who I forget (Collins?). It's not "I didn't do that" any more - it's that it's a "politically-based attack" - as if, say, investigating someone for campaign finance violations for using campaign money to stick his dick in people that aren't his wife is something some angry Democrats made up out of this air. Of course, Hillary played that card too, but to her detriment the left hasn't been brainwashing their folks to march in lockstep to whatever they're told.

 

[Kerosene31]

Remember when she was having a town hall (I think it was a town hall) and stupidly bragged about how she was going to put a ton of coal miners out of work? then she caught herself and tried to drag some other state politician who was there with her into it instead of just correcting herself. She's just an awful campaigner and honestly she wasn't spectacular at any of the jobs she held in government either. She was someone with a famous (yet tarnished) last name who a lot of people just didn't trust. You have to be a special kind of off-putting to be bad enough to "lose" an election to Donald Trump.

Yep, Democrat foot in mouth disease. It is far too common.

That's the double standard though, as Trump says things all the time that have no consequence. Meanwhile Biden said something back before many of us were even born and he's got to answer for it.

This is what scares me about the Democrats. Most of us in this thread are going to dig past their faults and find the candidate to vote for, but the average voter isn't going to do that. Say what you want about Trump (I love how the racist dog whistles are done and he's basically telling people to "go back where they came from"), his message was consistent. Sure, it was BS, but it was consistent.

He spoke to the lower and middle class rust belt folks directly (literally and figuratively).

Meanwhile we're approaching 2020 and the Democrats still aren't speaking to or about the lower to middle class voters they lost in the last election.

 

[yankeessuck]

Yeah we know she was a bad candidate but its hard to keep going over that when a lot of voters are a lost cause if they can vote for an obvious racist and then proudly say they will do it again in 2020.

 

[horns]

Clinton was never strong outside of the Democratic party, she was always middle of the road with independents and any polling 2 years out didn't have anything but a generic opponent for her. Just a quick glance and I found a poll showing her at 50% could see themselves supporting her and already 48% opposed her, she was always a controversial person and that was before her email thing blew up which was another problem of her own creation. Some people like to pretend that she was this squeaky clean candidate who was unfairly targeted, while the targeting thing is true to a degree she also had a lot of self inflicted wounds where her response was worse than what she was accused of.

Don't get me wrong she was far from perfect. She was still better than any of the 17 Republican candidates that ran against her. She is miles better than Trump or Bush ever was. The 48% who opposed her would likely vote for a racist like Donald Trump so f*** those evil people.

There was a lot of projection with Clinton. Remember how she was supposedly not honest, a war hawk, and a criminal. Or how their non profit is corrupt or speeches for money is illegal? Still happens to this day.

If everything you say gets that much attention eventually you are eventually going to slip up and say something wrong or stupid. There is just no way around it. For people that would claim to not like purity tests they sure as hell will be looking for her to fail one.

There will be slip ups. She just needs to be even more cautious of mistakes. It's an unfortunate double standard.

 

[Plainview]

Yeah we know she was a bad candidate but its hard to keep going over that when a lot of voters are a lost cause if they can vote for an obvious racist and then proudly say they will do it again in 2020.

I have family who posted in Facebook last week saying just this. They are proudly, not being hyperbolic, saying they are voting for him in 2020.

 

[yankeessuck]

I have family who posted in Facebook last week saying just this. They are proudly, not being hyperbolic, saying they are voting for him in 2020.

You don't want to say anyone that votes for him is a racist but I don't see how it can be justified looking the other way

 

[Plainview]

You don't want to say anyone that votes for him is a racist but I don't see how it can be justified looking the other way

I'm going to have to make the sweeping proclamation on Facebook. I don't have any family gatherings for a few months. So, I'm good.

 

[Kerosene31]

There's one friend of the family who we were hooked up with on Facebook who just constantly puts out this racist stuff and is completely befuddled as to why people "attack" her (her words). They don't get it (and never will). Trump isn't even pretending to hide it behind dog whistles and a nod and a wink.

My favorite way to deal with racists is to ask them how their DNA test went. Now that we've got all these cheap and easy places that will tell you your ancestry, you should get tested! That shuts them up in record time. I don't think there is a bigger hypocrite than a racist living in America.

 

[Videodrome]

I have not friended Family / Relatives on Facebook. Just friends or co-workers or hit likes on companies I might consider applying for. FB is so much more chill this time around that I came back after a break.

Especially going into an election season.

 

[Plainview]

I had MSNBC on and I was in another room. Unfortunately, they went live to trump. Jesus Christ the racism gas lighting, out right lying, the not so subtle call for harm against the four democratic congresswomen, is frightening. You need to look real hard at yourself if you still support him. If you do, you have very deep soul searching to do. If you're religious, you have some very big issues to confront.