The End of the World: A Political Thread. A New Hope coming soon!

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That is subjective. Initially that was the case, but he seemed to get a bunch of coverage when he started to perform better than expected. His online presence was impressive though.

He got more attention once he won Michigan but again it was still nothing compared to what Trump was getting and he was always an afterthought until the Republican primaries were locked up and the media needed another "story" but Hillary was always their pick.
 
So you either didn't read the article I linked or just didn't understand it, or just are willfully ignoring it. I'll assume it's the former.

The backlog is over 877,000 cases now, and very little of it is based on people coming over the border or seeking asylum, and to the extent it is the asylum, that's because Jefferson Beauregard Sessions enacted policies making it much harder to actually process cases. The President blaming the immigration court backlog on the border would be like a renter blaming a defective AC unit on the landlord when they took the wires out and sold the compressor for meth.

I read it, it says that the things that the Trump admin tried to do to speed things up slowed them down, it also said that so far this year 314,000 families had been caught at the southern border. Pretending the amount of people coming at once isn't contributing greatly to the problem is silly, yes the Trump administration is handling it poorly and yes I know they don't actually care about these people but the system wasn't set up to handle this many cases at once. It doesn't help that Sessions orders made them re-open closed cases but either way they didn't have enough judges to handle what's been coming over. The last thing we can do is just say "hey we can't handle all of you so just go ahead and freely move around our country" we have to have some type of process that is followed.

I also don't get why they aren't applying for asylum in Mexico, I mean I get that it's more dangerous etc but that's mostly in Tijuana and they are there because they are trying to come here and it's a border area. I'm not saying we shouldn't take a good amount but it seems like they all are trying to come here and we can't just take them all in.
 
Immigration is a simple problem to solve, and has been for years and years. With all the usual left vs right bickering, both sides actually often agreed on how to handle immigration. Immigration was not a big issue in 2012 or 2008. It rarely came up, and when it did it was usually about sanctuary cities.

Trump simply misrepresented the problem, and continues to do so. He wants you to think that the numbers are "massive" when they simply aren't.

This is what I talked about earlier with steering the narrative. In 2012 (Romney vs Obama), immigration was not a key issue. I was searching back and it seemed to barely even be brought up.

Then when Trump comes along, he needs an issue to separate himself from the other GOP candidates, so he found the one thing he could exploit - immigration. He made every other candidate on the GOP side look "weak" on immigration. Before you know it, people in red hats are screaming "build a wall". These people didn't care about immigration until Trump steered them onto it.

Trump didn't give the voters what they wanted - like any good salesman, he told them they wanted what he was selling.

On top of everything, Democrats are forced to oppose Trump, so they get tricked into taking these outright stupid positions that they normally wouldn't. (They need to stop doing that). The Democrats are trying to out-liberal each other saying we want to give health care to illegal immigrants.

It is all so stupid. This isn't a wedge issue. Something like abortion is a wedge issue. Immigration is simple - let's control our border with policies that make sense, and then dedicate the necessary resources to get that done.
 
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I read it, it says that the things that the Trump admin tried to do to speed things up slowed them down, it also said that so far this year 314,000 families had been caught at the southern border. Pretending the amount of people coming at once isn't contributing greatly to the problem is silly, yes the Trump administration is handling it poorly and yes I know they don't actually care about these people but the system wasn't set up to handle this many cases at once. It doesn't help that Sessions orders made them re-open closed cases but either way they didn't have enough judges to handle what's been coming over. The last thing we can do is just say "hey we can't handle all of you so just go ahead and freely move around our country" we have to have some type of process that is followed.

I also don't get why they aren't applying for asylum in Mexico, I mean I get that it's more dangerous etc but that's mostly in Tijuana and they are there because they are trying to come here and it's a border area. I'm not saying we shouldn't take a good amount but it seems like they all are trying to come here and we can't just take them all in.

Stipulations:
1. Illegal border crossings, by the best measure we can use to estimate them, are on a significant downward trend over the past 20 years.
2. The immigration courts have been backlogged for a while, but actions by the Trump admin have inflammed that backlog tremendously (both on the time to clear metric and in adding cases that previously were or would have been closed).

Now, given those two facts, you've pivoted from "we can't handle the number of people coming over the border" to "the system is overflowed" back to the first. Not because you're evaluating the facts in search of finding out what to believe, but because you're evaluating what you want to believe and are willing to settle for facts that don't actually say what you think they do to support them. The "why don't they apply in Mexico" or "make everyone legal" strawman is just icing on the cake.

Just be honest and say you don't want them coming here. Stop wasting my time and yours trying to argue facts that you're not even using to inform your decision making.

[edit: Oh, and yeah, the really sad part is that the part you started arguing against - decriminalization - is a major reason *why* this is happening. See, when someone comes over the border and presents themselves to Border Patrol, which is how asylum claims are legally supposed to work, the current policy treats them as criminals, which means they're locked up indefinitely, families separated, etc. The end result of most of these crossings in the past has been a $10 fine and deportation, and it processed a lot more smoothly, but now that they're criminals, the amount of case work explodes. Just reversion to what we had before Trump would improve things tremendously, since Congress is chronically incapable of doing anything more complicated than passing resolutions that encourage proper butt wiping]
 
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Stipulations:
1. Illegal border crossings, by the best measure we can use to estimate them, are on a significant downward trend over the past 20 years.
2. The immigration courts have been backlogged for a while, but actions by the Trump admin have inflammed that backlog tremendously (both on the time to clear metric and in adding cases that previously were or would have been closed).

Now, given those two facts, you've pivoted from "we can't handle the number of people coming over the border" to "the system is overflowed" back to the first. Not because you're evaluating the facts in search of finding out what to believe, but because you're evaluating what you want to believe and are willing to settle for facts that don't actually say what you think they do to support them. The "why don't they apply in Mexico" or "make everyone legal" strawman is just icing on the cake.

Just be honest and say you don't want them coming here. Stop wasting my time and yours trying to argue facts that you're not even using to inform your decision making.

No I've said from the start that the system was getting overwhelmed, then you brought up some graph that had no detail other than total numbers which we both know isn't telling the whole story so I provided you with the information about how much the asylum claims have increased, hell even the last article you posted talked about that but you seem to keep overlooking that and acting like it's no big deal, didn't you said 90k wasn't s***? turns out the numbers from the two years after that article I posted were significantly higher.

I have no problem with people coming here legally, that's how it's supposed to be done, I also have no problem taking in a large number of asylees but I also know that we can't handle taking everyone in and that we need a better system than we have now. The fact that most of the people coming aren't from Mexico but are just passing through it means that they are out of harms way or at least the harm they were fleeing.
 
The system is getting overwhelmed mostly because of Trump's direct actions. Trump sending Pence down there was exactly what they wanted - they wanted to show a ton of immigrants in a cage. They want you to "see" a problem, but what they did is basically start a fire and then point you towards it.
Trump wants you to think that the number of immigrants is increasing greatly. They use words like "flooded".

Not only is Trump treating people at the border badly, but he is doing it to further a political agenda.
 
Terrific guy ... He’s a lot of fun to be with. It is even said that he likes beautiful women as much as I do, and many of them are on the younger side. No doubt about it—Jeffrey enjoys his social life.”
— Donald Trump, to New York magazine, in 2002
 
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Terrific guy ... He’s a lot of fun to be with. It is even said that he likes beautiful women as much as I do, and many of them are on the younger side. No doubt about it—Jeffrey enjoys his social life.”
— Donald Trump, to New York magazine, in 2002
MSNBC just released video at mar a lago of trump, and the guy he barely knew, epstein, laughing it up and having a great time.
 
Terrific guy ... He’s a lot of fun to be with. It is even said that he likes beautiful women as much as I do, and many of them are on the younger side. No doubt about it—Jeffrey enjoys his social life.”
— Donald Trump, to New York magazine, in 2002
“Now, somebody who a lot of people don’t give credit to but in actuality is really beautiful is Paris Hilton,” he said. “I’ve known Paris Hilton from the time she’s 12, her parents are friends of mine, and the first time I saw her she walked into the room and I said, ‘Who the hell is that?’”

“Did you wanna bang her?” Stern asked.

“Well, at 12, I wasn’t interested,” Trump said, “I’ve never been into that ... but she was beautiful.”
He then went on to call Hilton “dumb like a fox” and admitted that he had watched her sex tape.
 
Terrific guy ... He’s a lot of fun to be with. It is even said that he likes beautiful women as much as I do, and many of them are on the younger side. No doubt about it—Jeffrey enjoys his social life.”
— Donald Trump, to New York magazine, in 2002
Talking about a 10 year old.

 
What is hilariously ironic is that the same pearl clutching people who were offended by Howard Stern back when he was on regular radio and constantly got him fined and even fired for being "vulgar" are now voting for Trump and continuing to support him.
 
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https://news.vice.com/en_us/article...-are-about-to-go-public?utm_source=reddit.com

THE DETAILS OF TRUMP’S HUSH MONEY PAYMENTS ARE ABOUT TO GO PUBLIC
WASHINGTON — A federal judge ordered the release of documents related to the investigation into hush money payments to women claiming they slept with President Trump.​
The documents must be posted by 11:00 am eastern on Thursday, July 18, Judge William H. Pauley of the Southern District of New York wrote in a decision released Wednesday.​
“The campaign finance violations discussed in the Materials are a matter of national importance. Now that the Government's investigation into those violations has concluded, it is time that every American has an opportunity to scrutinize the Materials,” Judge Pauley wrote.​
In his ruling Wednesday, Pauley rejected the government’s request to redact portions of the documents, citing “the weighty public ramifications of the conduct described.”​
 
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The system is getting overwhelmed mostly because of Trump's direct actions. Trump sending Pence down there was exactly what they wanted - they wanted to show a ton of immigrants in a cage. They want you to "see" a problem, but what they did is basically start a fire and then point you towards it.
Trump wants you to think that the number of immigrants is increasing greatly. They use words like "flooded".

Not only is Trump treating people at the border badly, but he is doing it to further a political agenda.

When you have the number of people seeking asylum increasing nearly 2000% over a 10 year period there is validity to the claim that we aren't set up to handle that many cases. As I've said he's made things worse than they had to be but there was going to be a backlog no matter what. People seeking asylum will take longer to process etc than someone you just catch trying to enter illegally and deport.
 
When you have the number of people seeking asylum increasing nearly 2000% over a 10 year period there is validity to the claim that we aren't set up to handle that many cases. As I've said he's made things worse than they had to be but there was going to be a backlog no matter what. People seeking asylum will take longer to process etc than someone you just catch trying to enter illegally and deport.

That's because fewer actually sneak in. Most seek asylum legally rather than sneaking in.

All we need to do is take all the money we pay to for-profit prisons (the same ones that donate to Trump) and use that to expand our asylum legal process. The problem started because Trump wants to lock them up rather than to just let them in with a court date.

If we are taking in too many asylum seekers, then we need to change the rules (I don't think that is needed anyway).
 
That's because fewer actually sneak in. Most seek asylum legally rather than sneaking in.

All we need to do is take all the money we pay to for-profit prisons (the same ones that donate to Trump) and use that to expand our asylum legal process. The problem started because Trump wants to lock them up rather than to just let them in with a court date.

If we are taking in too many asylum seekers, then we need to change the rules (I don't think that is needed anyway).

I get that part but I also don't think it's really right to just let them in before their trial either, I don't know where you live but in places like CA where our public resources are already stretched thin, where we have a huge homeless problem and a lack of affordable housing it's just not realistic to let another hundred thousand or more people in with no way of supporting themselves. Sadly our state government wants to be anti Trump so bad they are inviting people here without even saying how they are going to pay for it.
 
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No I've said from the start that the system was getting overwhelmed, then you brought up some graph that had no detail other than total numbers which we both know isn't telling the whole story so I provided you with the information about how much the asylum claims have increased, hell even the last article you posted talked about that but you seem to keep overlooking that and acting like it's no big deal, didn't you said 90k wasn't s***? turns out the numbers from the two years after that article I posted were significantly higher.

It was under 100k asylum claims for 2018 also:
https://www.cbp.gov/newsroom/stats/sw-border-migration/claims-fear

The raw data:
https://www.uscis.gov/sites/default/files/USCIS/Outreach/PED_CFandRFstats09302018.pdf

Some context:
https://humanrightsfirst.org/resource/cbp-s-figures-credible-fear-claims-out-context-and-inaccurate

You are consistently conflating apprehensions with asylum claims. Asylum claims are a *small* part of the backlog - again, less than 100k ain't s*** relative to what they're doing now, and apprehensions are much lower than they were over most of the past two decades at minimum. The system isn't "getting overwhelmed", the system is being destroyed from within and you're blindly accepting the word of the people holding the axe that the tree fell down of it's own volition.

I have no problem with people coming here legally, that's how it's supposed to be done, I also have no problem taking in a large number of asylees but I also know that we can't handle taking everyone in and that we need a better system than we have now. The fact that most of the people coming aren't from Mexico but are just passing through it means that they are out of harms way or at least the harm they were fleeing.

People who present themselves at a port of entry are being turned away. Under the law, they should also be able to cross and turn themselves in if they're claiming asylum. Of course, when "the law' means whatever they want it to is no problem at all, until you're the one that's being hauled away - and we are, after all, the country that detains our own citizens at a much higher rate than the rest of the developed world, and we are the country that had the indefensible camps at Manzanar et al.
 
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It was under 100k asylum claims for 2018 also:
https://www.cbp.gov/newsroom/stats/sw-border-migration/claims-fear
The raw data:
https://www.uscis.gov/sites/default/files/USCIS/Outreach/PED_CFandRFstats09302018.pdf

Some context:
https://humanrightsfirst.org/resource/cbp-s-figures-credible-fear-claims-out-context-and-inaccurate

You are consistently conflating apprehensions with asylum claims. Asylum claims are a *small* part of the backlog - again, less than 100k ain't s*** relative to what they're doing now, and apprehensions are much lower than they were over most of the past two decades at minimum. The system isn't "getting overwhelmed", the system is being destroyed from within and you're blindly accepting the word of the people holding the axe that the tree fell down of it's own volition.



People who present themselves at a port of entry are being turned away. Under the law, they should also be able to cross and turn themselves in if they're claiming asylum. Of course, when "the law' means whatever they want it to is no problem at all, until you're the one that's being hauled away - and we are, after all, the country that detains our own citizens at a much higher rate than the rest of the developed world, and we are the country that had the indefensible camps at Manzanar et al.

This is from the other article you linked yesterday.

In a surge that peaked in June, record numbers of families have streamed to the border to plead for asylum, triggering a legal process that added tens of thousands of cases to be decided. So far this year, more than 314,000 people traveling in families, mostly from Central America, were caught at the southern border.
 
Rand Paul is such an a******, why can't Kentucky elect at least one senator that's not an evil prick?
https://www.huffpost.com/entry/rand-paul-911-victims-compensation-fund_n_5d2f7100e4b004b6adaa54a7

GOP Sen. Rand Paul Blocks 9/11 Victim Compensation Fund Bill

A Republican senator has blocked a bipartisan bill that would ensure a victims’ compensation fund for the Sept. 11 attacks never runs out of money.

Kentucky Sen. Rand Paul questions the bill’s 70-year time frame and notes that the federal government already faces a $22 trillion debt. He says any new spending such as the 9/11 bill should be offset by cuts.

 
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This is from the other article you linked yesterday.

Two distinct sentences. One cites asylum seekers, the other cites apprehensions. What did you think the tens of thousands part was?

A similar example with admittedly invented numbers might be:
"The number of quintuple bypass surgeries has increased 500%. In March, 35 million Americans ate more than 8000 calories per dsy."
 
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I get that part but I also don't think it's really right to just let them in before their trial either, I don't know where you live but in places like CA where our public resources are already stretched thin, where we have a huge homeless problem and a lack of affordable housing it's just not realistic to let another hundred thousand or more people in with no way of supporting themselves. Sadly our state government wants to be anti Trump so bad they are inviting people here without even saying how they are going to pay for it.

I'm in New York which of course has much less of an immigrant problem. The one thing though, NY has a lot of the same problems that CA has. Exploding cost of living in big cities is a big problem here. We're always strapped for cash as a state even through we're so big.

The problem is that we need to look at statistics and facts, not feelings. Does immigration have a negative impact on states near the border? It is possible, but what impact exactly? I don't know. The big problem I have is that we assume immigrants are a big problem, then work backwards from that. I just don't accept it as a given that immigration is a problem. I don't know all the facts (because few actually cite facts). Things like welfare are largely at the state level, so they can often be fixed there.

Instead of trying to look at the problem and come up with solutions, Trump just slows everything down at the border.

I do agree about politicians trying too hard to be anti-Trump, and possibly losing site of common sense. They are essentially letting Trump manipulate them through reverse psychology. We need to ignore Trump and come up with common sense solutions. That starts with finding statistics to actually see what the problem is, if there even is one. Most people are willing to discuss the border reasonably.
 
They are a cult, not a political side. These morons are just inventing things in their heads to stay in denial that they got taken by a simple con man.
It is pure insanity. These people have lost their minds and there's a lot of them. Anybody that chanted "Send her back" needs to seriously get the f*** out of my country. You are no wanted here. You are everything that is the opposite of the United States.
 
It is pure insanity. These people have lost their minds and there's a lot of them. Anybody that chanted "Send her back" needs to seriously get the f*** out of my country. You are no wanted here. You are everything that is the opposite of the United States.

And one of the best examples of how racist they are. Even if you don't like her politics you should see Omar as an example of immigration working. Someone who works hard and wants to make the country better.

Nobody can claim his supporters just like everything but the racism. The racism is a feature not a bug.
 
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