The End of the World: A Political Thread.

Spiritech

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Yea, Biden isn't my first choice but we need to survive first in order to fix things; we won't survive another Trump term.

I just hope people just get behind whoever is the nominee. People need to understand that a vote doesn't have to be about oneself, it can be for the kids being locked up or other people whose rights are being threatened and don't have a voice.
 

Kerosene31

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Wasn't Trump pretty far from any kind of a centrist message? His ridiculouos Wall carried him with a lot of people.

What if big ideas or a little grandiosity get votes?
Trump had no policy, that was the trick. Talking about a wall that never got built, and basically promising to undo everything Obama with something better.

That's exactly the problem. Trump and the alt right have pushed people very far right. The problem is they see someone left of center as an extremist (when they themselves have been taken over). I mean, you have people in Michigan, Wisconsin, Ohio and Pennsylvania worried about a southern border wall.

I don't think someone on the Democrat side needs to be hard centrist, I just think they need to message it correctly. The people in the places Trump won in 2016 do care about their healthcare and the deficit, but you have to not scare them away, knowing the right is going to pull scare tactics.

The average voter just isn't digging that deep. It comes down to how the message is spoken. Keep it short, simple and concise so that people get it. Repeat it a lot. Trump did all this so well.

I do think that Biden might be too milquetoast to organize the base. I'm pulling a little more for someone like Warren who I think can really energize people and not scare away the rust belt folks. I could be wrong though and it really comes down to polling.

Honestly too I think the whole left vs right thing no longer applies. I mean, I don't consider the right to be conservative anymore. There's candidates like Bernie who are left of me but I don't consider their ideas to be extreme by any means.
 
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I also think there is a level of disgust at 'Presidential Dynasties'. In that way, I think a lot people were flabbergasted at the idea of Jeb Bush. I think at that point we officially had Bush fatigue. In kind of a similar way, I'm not sure people were comfortable with another Clinton as if that unofficially brought back Bill.

I'm not saying that was huge with most people, but maybe a small contributor.

It's hard though, because when Americans feel lost they look to things that are familiar. I think that when this happens, we see a step up in nostalgia. Maybe for that reason, it's tempting to just push Biden, but Biden is not Obama and I'm not sure this will work.

Maybe this is why Michael Moore was recently vaguely trying to push Michelle in an interview lol.
 

JinCA

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I used to think Biden would be the guy but that's before I got a look at some of the other candidates. I would have always wanted Bernie over him I just thought Biden was the only one that was a sure bet but with him making so many mistakes in such a short time he just doesn't come across as someone who's mentally sharp these days. I know he's always been prone to "gaffes" but that used to just mean he was telling it straight vs giving the polished politician answer, now he's saying he was VP during events that happened two years after he left office, he can't articulate the name of his own website during a debate and he just seems to stumble over his words a lot.

That's going to be used against him like crazy if he's the nominee, yeah I know Trump talks crap, lies and flubs his lines all the time but his voters don't care, I think dems banking on Trump fatigue being enough to energize enough people to vote are making a mistake, we can't just play not to lose this time we have to try to win and I'm not so sure Biden will be up to the task.

Bernie and Warren have more in common than they don't so IF their voters are voting on policy over personality when one of them drops out the other should pick up the majority of their support and surpass Biden in the polls. I know a lot of polls show Biden as a majority of Bernie voters 2nd choice (and vice versa) but I think that's mainly because they think he's more electable, that narrative is slowly fading away.
 

yankeessuck

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I used to think Biden would be the guy but that's before I got a look at some of the other candidates. I would have always wanted Bernie over him I just thought Biden was the only one that was a sure bet but with him making so many mistakes in such a short time he just doesn't come across as someone who's mentally sharp these days. I know he's always been prone to "gaffes" but that used to just mean he was telling it straight vs giving the polished politician answer, now he's saying he was VP during events that happened two years after he left office, he can't articulate the name of his own website during a debate and he just seems to stumble over his words a lot.

That's going to be used against him like crazy if he's the nominee, yeah I know Trump talks crap, lies and flubs his lines all the time but his voters don't care, I think dems banking on Trump fatigue being enough to energize enough people to vote are making a mistake, we can't just play not to lose this time we have to try to win and I'm not so sure Biden will be up to the task.

Bernie and Warren have more in common than they don't so IF their voters are voting on policy over personality when one of them drops out the other should pick up the majority of their support and surpass Biden in the polls. I know a lot of polls show Biden as a majority of Bernie voters 2nd choice (and vice versa) but I think that's mainly because they think he's more electable, that narrative is slowly fading away.
The gaffes weren't just speaking the truth. Like when he said about Obama “I mean, you got the first mainstream African American who is articulate and bright and clean and a nice-looking guy,”. This is the type of thing he does but age is likely making it much worse and you need to question how is going to hold up.

I think even if Bernie/Warren supporters flock to the other significantly will it happen while it still matters? Biden could win the first 3 or 4 states and if he does the race is over.
 

JinCA

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The gaffes weren't just speaking the truth. Like when he said about Obama “I mean, you got the first mainstream African American who is articulate and bright and clean and a nice-looking guy,”. This is the type of thing he does but age is likely making it much worse and you need to question how is going to hold up.

I think even if Bernie/Warren supporters flock to the other significantly will it happen while it still matters? Biden could win the first 3 or 4 states and if he does the race is over.
Were Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson nice looking guys? :p

I don't know about it being over after the first 3 or 4 states, Super Tuesday is the 5th primary date and California is now a part of that so anyone who's polling even decently around that time will stay and have a shot. We'll see though, I hope he ends up dropping enough so that it doesn't matter by that time, he's a good man but he's just not the right guy for this time.
 
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yankeessuck

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Were Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson nice looking guys? :p

I don't know about it being over after the first 3 or 4 states, Super Tuesday is the 5th primary date and California is now a part of that so anyone who's polling even decently around that time will stay and have a shot. We'll see though, I hope he ends up dropping enough so that it doesn't matter by that time, he's a good man but he's just not the right guy for this time.
But in that scenario its over for sure. Biden sweeps before Super Tuesday and there is still 3 or 4 candidates going? Biden would destroy. The momentum and the electability argument would just cement itself. The big field isn't going to hurt the front runner. The big GOP field helped Trump.

Obama didn't even have the edge in black voters when the 2008 primary started. He pulled an upset in Iowa and it changed the perception of the race. And that could happen. Iowa polls are close enough that Biden, Warren, Bernie, Harris, and Pete probably all feel like they have a plausible shot.

Someone either has to pull off an early upset or someone to needs to firmly take second place with everyone else dropping out by mid February.
 

JinCA

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But in that scenario its over for sure. Biden sweeps before Super Tuesday and there is still 3 or 4 candidates going? Biden would destroy. The momentum and the electability argument would just cement itself. The big field isn't going to hurt the front runner. The big GOP field helped Trump.

Obama didn't even have the edge in black voters when the 2008 primary started. He pulled an upset in Iowa and it changed the perception of the race. And that could happen. Iowa polls are close enough that Biden, Warren, Bernie, Harris, and Pete probably all feel like they have a plausible shot.

Someone either has to pull off an early upset or someone to needs to firmly take second place with everyone else dropping out by mid February.
Yeah for sure the field will be smaller but that'll likely start to happen by next month, once a bunch of people don't make the fall debates they are likely toast. Right now only 9 are in and I can't believe Klobuchar is one of them, she should be gone yesterday. Really the only ones that should stay in from this point on are Biden, Warren, Sanders, Yang, Gabbard and either Harris or Booker.

I say that because Biden is the old school moderatel Dem, Harris and Booker are both the corporate friendly moderates who pretend to be more progressive than they are, Warren and Sanders are very close on most issues but are still individually popular, Yang while not polling as well as the others on the list is offering something very different than the rest of the pack as is Gabbard to a degree and they should both be heard. None of the other moderates are going to beat out Biden unless he continues with his brain farts and people lose all confidence in him (which there is still time for) and none of the other progressives are going to beat out Warren and Sanders.

I don't think Sanders and Warren will both stay in when the primaries come around IF Biden is still leading the pack in polls, I think they are smart enough to know that one of them dropping out gives their mostly shared agenda a better chance of being executed, hopefully ego doesn't stand in the way of progress there.
 

Kerosene31

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Bernie won't drop out. He'll stay in until the bitter end, then he'll throw a fit and probably leave the party (again). If Bernie was a pragmatist, he'd see that he has enough support to be a spoiler, but not a winner. He'll stay in way too long and split the vote and leave us with Biden. Warren is going to stay in because she might get the nod to be VP.
 

yankeessuck

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Yeah for sure the field will be smaller but that'll likely start to happen by next month, once a bunch of people don't make the fall debates they are likely toast. Right now only 9 are in and I can't believe Klobuchar is one of them, she should be gone yesterday. Really the only ones that should stay in from this point on are Biden, Warren, Sanders, Yang, Gabbard and either Harris or Booker.

I say that because Biden is the old school moderatel Dem, Harris and Booker are both the corporate friendly moderates who pretend to be more progressive than they are, Warren and Sanders are very close on most issues but are still individually popular, Yang while not polling as well as the others on the list is offering something very different than the rest of the pack as is Gabbard to a degree and they should both be heard. None of the other moderates are going to beat out Biden unless he continues with his brain farts and people lose all confidence in him (which there is still time for) and none of the other progressives are going to beat out Warren and Sanders.

I don't think Sanders and Warren will both stay in when the primaries come around IF Biden is still leading the pack in polls, I think they are smart enough to know that one of them dropping out gives their mostly shared agenda a better chance of being executed, hopefully ego doesn't stand in the way of progress there.
Yeah that's who you may want to stay in but lets face it Biden, Warren, Sanders, Harris, and Mayor Pete are pretty unlikely to drop out before votes are cast and because of that there isn't really a lot of room for everyone else. We are going to be at least 9 for the September debate and its only going to grow for the October debate

Reality is if you want the Yangs and Gabbards of the world to stay in the for the next few months do not complain when Biden wins. They are helping him right now.

And its easy to dismiss Mayor Pete because how could he win right? Well he has a ton of money and can put himself in contention in Iowa. If he did he would become a threat. A long shot but not a no shot.
 

Viktor

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I hate living in Iowa because of the stupid caucuses. Until I moved here from WI I had always voted in primaries, but I have yet to partake in a caucus. I'm not going to go and argue for several hours with a bunch of random people. Just let me f***ing vote ffs. I'm moving back to WI at some point but probably won't be before the election.
 

yankeessuck

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I hate living in Iowa because of the stupid caucuses. Until I moved here from WI I had always voted in primaries, but I have yet to partake in a caucus. I'm not going to go and argue for several hours with a bunch of random people. Just let me f***ing vote ffs. I'm moving back to WI at some point but probably won't be before the election.
Caucuses suck and it also sucks that one state gets so much importance which ultimately can shape the entire election
 

Plainview

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Don't care. They voted for him and I'm sure they'll still vote for republicans next year.

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/sonn...ers-angry-reaction_n_5d51e64ce4b0c63bcbec0c10

Farmers Reel After Sonny Perdue Mocks Them As ‘Whiners’ Amid Trade War Bankruptcies
America’s farmers have apparently been demoted by the Trump administration from “great patriots” to “whiners,” according to a tone-deaf joke by Agriculture Secretary Sonny Perdue. Farmers, struggling with plunging income and bankruptcies amid President Donald Trump’s trade war, were stunned.​
Perdue made the joke while getting heat last week from Minnesota farmers complaining about, among other things, the latest blow to their businesses from the trade war. China has canceled all purchases of U.S. farm products in retaliation for Trump’s decision to impose 10% tariffs on $300 billion in Chinese imports.​
 

Kerosene31

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Don't care. They voted for him and I'm sure they'll still vote for republicans next year.

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/sonn...ers-angry-reaction_n_5d51e64ce4b0c63bcbec0c10

Farmers Reel After Sonny Perdue Mocks Them As ‘Whiners’ Amid Trade War Bankruptcies
America’s farmers have apparently been demoted by the Trump administration from “great patriots” to “whiners,” according to a tone-deaf joke by Agriculture Secretary Sonny Perdue. Farmers, struggling with plunging income and bankruptcies amid President Donald Trump’s trade war, were stunned.​
Perdue made the joke while getting heat last week from Minnesota farmers complaining about, among other things, the latest blow to their businesses from the trade war. China has canceled all purchases of U.S. farm products in retaliation for Trump’s decision to impose 10% tariffs on $300 billion in Chinese imports.​
It is going to take a recession to wake people up unfortunately. Sadly the average person just looks at the day to day economy and can't understand that the damage Trump is causing hasn't even hit yet. All the see is the day to day Fox News telling them "all is well!".

I hate to "root" for a recession, but I think that's the only way people are going to wake up.

I actually got an e-mail from my bank hosting a talk about the coming recession the other day. Hopefully people are waking up and understanding that economies are complex things and impacts aren't fully felt for months if not years.

I'm sure the worst of it will hit during President Biden's term and the Democrats will get blamed for "overspending" again. I can't stand how people fall for this con year after year, decade after decade.
 

Plainview

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Cuomo went full NY Italian on a punk republican. He will he will get mocked for it for his reaction. The punk obviously did it as a slur, Cuomo has a right to react, but he did overreact a bit, but the punk was also a coward and tried to claim he didn't know his name, etc. but he recorded from the beginning, edited out the beginning, tried to goad Cuomo into hitting him. It will be interesting to hear Cuomo tonight. I'm quite certain he will apologize.
 

yankeessuck

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Cuomo went full NY Italian on a punk republican. He will he will get mocked for it for his reaction. The punk obviously did it as a slur, Cuomo has a right to react, but he did overreact a bit, but the punk was also a coward and tried to claim he didn't know his name, etc. but he recorded from the beginning, edited out the beginning, tried to goad Cuomo into hitting him. It will be interesting to hear Cuomo tonight. I'm quite certain he will apologize.
Shouldn't have taken the bait and comparing it to the n word is really stupid
 

Plainview

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Shouldn't have taken the bait and comparing it to the n word is really stupid
As an Italian, it's a pretty racist word to say to Italians. Obviously, not quite on the same level as the n word, but it's up there with other Italian racial slurs. But, he shouldn't have taken the bait. Probably a little alcohol involved as well.
 

Kerosene31

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He shouldn't react like that, but then again I can only imagine he gets punks like that in his face anytime he's in public.
 

Plainview

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He shouldn't react like that, but then again I can only imagine he gets punks like that in his face anytime he's in public.
It's got to be constant. But, he shouldn't react like that, but I can see a point where it becomes too much. Also. we didn't see the beginning of the video either. It's conveniently left out.
 

JinCA

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Yeah that's who you may want to stay in but lets face it Biden, Warren, Sanders, Harris, and Mayor Pete are pretty unlikely to drop out before votes are cast and because of that there isn't really a lot of room for everyone else. We are going to be at least 9 for the September debate and its only going to grow for the October debate

Reality is if you want the Yangs and Gabbards of the world to stay in the for the next few months do not complain when Biden wins. They are helping him right now.

And its easy to dismiss Mayor Pete because how could he win right? Well he has a ton of money and can put himself in contention in Iowa. If he did he would become a threat. A long shot but not a no shot.
Yang and Gabbard supporters aren't hurting anyone else's chances as long as Harris, Booker, and Mayor Pete are in, those three are taking way more votes from the leading candidates without offering anything substantively different. Yang is addressing real issues in a way that nobody else is and Gabbard is keeping a sharp focus on standing up to the military industrial complex all while being a soldier herself. Harris and Mayor Pete are both establishment candidates, they are younger versions of Biden, they may differ a little here and there but I doubt either one would actually do much to implement the policy differences.
 

yankeessuck

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Yang and Gabbard supporters aren't hurting anyone else's chances as long as Harris, Booker, and Mayor Pete are in, those three are taking way more votes from the leading candidates without offering anything substantively different. Yang is addressing real issues in a way that nobody else is and Gabbard is keeping a sharp focus on standing up to the military industrial complex all while being a soldier herself. Harris and Mayor Pete are both establishment candidates, they are younger versions of Biden, they may differ a little here and there but I doubt either one would actually do much to implement the policy differences.
But its not a question of whether we like these candidates. Harris and Pete have legitimate support and can plausibly believe they could win. Its easy to say "candidates I don't like should drop out" but lets be realistic

Every candidate is ultimately taking time and attention away from the others. Not to mention the debates will get split again so we don't even get the front runners on the stage together.

I certainly look at Yang different some of the others like Gabbard because he is running a positive campaign and because of that I have much less of a issue with him than many of the other candidates who aren't going to win. Anyone that doesn't get in the September debate should drop out immediately.
 
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I wish every candidate would present their ideas in a Ted Talk format. They do this all the time with different speakers and topics and it works really well.
It might not mesh well with TV though, so screw TV. The DNC with Ted Talk should do this without the networks and put it on YouTube.
 

JinCA

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But its not a question of whether we like these candidates. Harris and Pete have legitimate support and can plausibly believe they could win. Its easy to say "candidates I don't like should drop out" but lets be realistic

Every candidate is ultimately taking time and attention away from the others. Not to mention the debates will get split again so we don't even get the front runners on the stage together.

I certainly look at Yang different some of the others like Gabbard because he is running a positive campaign and because of that I have much less of a issue with him than many of the other candidates who aren't going to win. Anyone that doesn't get in the September debate should drop out immediately.
I would say anyone who hasn't met either of the requirements should drop out, if you have met the donor but not polling I can see sticking around and trying to get in for October and vice versa but after that if they haven't made it in they need to give up.

As far as Pete and Harris I think both have already been exposed as standard say a lot without saying anything politicians. I'd vote for either one over Trump but unlike Yang I don't think they have a message or policy idea that stands out and makes them look to be more desirable than any of the candidates who are ahead of them right now.
 
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