The End of the World: A Political Thread.

JinCA

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This is what the right does well and the left does poorly. They've steered the narrative. Now we're talking about exactly how bad a guy was after he's dead. Of course the right is exaggerating the threat, but this is exactly what the right wants us talking about.

Attack the right for a very questionable decision, but don't side with an Iranian general. The average voter isn't going to dig into the facts over a dead Iranian general. I saw a meme on twitter with the so called updated Democratic polling numbers and Suleiami was in there.

Gabbard pushing hard on this issue should be a giant red flag. Trump made a dumb, impulsive decision, but by dumb luck managed to not start a major war.

The Average Joe voter isn't worrying about some dead Iranian. Had WW3 kicked off, maybe, but since it didn't they don't care.

Trump lies about everything, focus on the lies that hurt him to his own people. They accuse Trump of attacking Iran to get the headlines off of impeachment, but they let him do exactly that. Headlines are off while the Senate is looking to change the rules and dismiss impeachment before they even get the articles.
Nobody is siding with the general even though the right wants to frame it that way, all they are saying is Trump made a stupid decision that could have cost us a lot more than it has so far. I couldn't care less that the guy is dead but I don't want to exaggerate and lie about what a threat he was or what he had done in the past either just be honest.
 

Kerosene31

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Nobody is siding with the general even though the right wants to frame it that way, all they are saying is Trump made a stupid decision that could have cost us a lot more than it has so far. I couldn't care less that the guy is dead but I don't want to exaggerate and lie about what a threat he was or what he had done in the past either just be honest.
It isn't about what happened, but about controlling the narrative.

Anyone with a brain is extremely alarmed that Trump is the one making these decisions (this is a guy who slept with a porn star without a condom), but the left needs to pick their battles.

Fox News front page is about how this guy was going to attack 4 embassies. Is it BS? Most likely, but nobody will care. The right looks "tough on terror" and the left looks weak. Them trying to limit the President's powers after the fact just looks terrible and isn't going anywhere. Trump wants us talking Iran. Hell, Fox is breaking a story that they tried to hit a 2nd Iranian but just missed him.

Meanwhile, the stock market hit another record high. If the Democrats don't start hitting this with the reality of the debt and looming recession, we're going to have Trump in 2020 and beyond.

I'm not saying people are wrong, I'm just saying the media and the Democrats need to stop reacting to Trump. If I were a Democrat strategist, I'd be bringing up the deficit each and every day. That's what Republicans do when a Democrat is in power. Too much spending.
 

JinCA

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It isn't about what happened, but about controlling the narrative.

Anyone with a brain is extremely alarmed that Trump is the one making these decisions (this is a guy who slept with a porn star without a condom), but the left needs to pick their battles.

Fox News front page is about how this guy was going to attack 4 embassies. Is it BS? Most likely, but nobody will care. The right looks "tough on terror" and the left looks weak. Them trying to limit the President's powers after the fact just looks terrible and isn't going anywhere. Trump wants us talking Iran. Hell, Fox is breaking a story that they tried to hit a 2nd Iranian but just missed him.

Meanwhile, the stock market hit another record high. If the Democrats don't start hitting this with the reality of the debt and looming recession, we're going to have Trump in 2020 and beyond.

I'm not saying people are wrong, I'm just saying the media and the Democrats need to stop reacting to Trump. If I were a Democrat strategist, I'd be bringing up the deficit each and every day. That's what Republicans do when a Democrat is in power. Too much spending.
The problem is bringing up the deficit doesn't alarm dems the same way it does republicans and they won't vote for anyone on our side. Republicans always spend as much if not more than dems they just never want to raise taxes to pay for it, they wait for us to get into power and then tell us we have to be the adults and pinch our pennies. We can't keep trying to be republican light, our party has already moved to the right too much because we've been willing to compromise and they haven't but I really don't think the deficit is a winning issue, republicans that care that much about it probably just won't vote for POTUS anyway.

Dems need to be clear in their messaging, they need to be unified and that's an issue with our side that never seems to get sorted out. Hell even during primaries if you aren't for a particular candidate people on our side are so quick to play the race or gender cards against people on their own "team" it's almost enough to make me quit the party. They did that with people who weren't supportive of Hillary last time and they've been claiming sexism is holding Elizabeth Warren back now too.

When it comes to Trump and Iran they just need to be clear that we can't go to war again unless it's truly in defense of our nation, play those videos of him talking about Obama trying to start a war with Iran to get re-elected all over the internet and make sure that people know we aren't sad that Soleimani is dead but that we don't think killing him was worth the risk of taking us to full on war with a country that can put up a much better fight than the last two we've gone to war with.
 
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Kerosene31

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The problem is bringing up the deficit doesn't alarm dems the same way it does republicans and they won't vote for ayone on our side.

Dems need to be clear in their messaging
It does, there's lots of people in the middle. The die hard Republicans are a lost cause, and the hardcore Democrats should be in the bag.

There's a lot of Democrats around the Great Lakes area who are not really "liberal". These people care about the economy.

You're right about the clear messaging. The average person still believes Trump is good for the economy, and the Democrats do little to change that.

People believe the GOP is good for the economy because that's in their message each and every time. The Democrats rarely talk about it. To me, that's the problem. People in more liberal areas get it, but I don't think the people in the states Hillary lost do.
 

yankeessuck

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It does, there's lots of people in the middle. The die hard Republicans are a lost cause, and the hardcore Democrats should be in the bag.

There's a lot of Democrats around the Great Lakes area who are not really "liberal". These people care about the economy.

You're right about the clear messaging. The average person still believes Trump is good for the economy, and the Democrats do little to change that.

People believe the GOP is good for the economy because that's in their message each and every time. The Democrats rarely talk about it. To me, that's the problem. People in more liberal areas get it, but I don't think the people in the states Hillary lost do.
The one thing there is no solution to is that there is a major news network whose entire mission is to tell its viewers why Democrats are bad and Republicans are good. Plenty of people in the middle watch Fox and think its real news.
 
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Kerosene31

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The one thing there is no solution to is that there is a major news network whose entire mission is to tell its viewers why Democrats are bad and Republicans are good. Plenty of people in the middle watch Fox and think its real news.
That is a huge problem, but it gets made worse by the Democrats not talking the economy. They talk Trump, Trump, Trump. They did it in 2016 and they are doing it now.

Fox News is a problem, but not every single one is a lost cause. Trump went to Michigan and talked jobs. The Democrats didn't do anything but tell people how bad Trump was.

Politics today isn't politics at all. Nobody wants to talk actual policy. It is about narratives. I spent a holiday with a bunch of right wing family members (many of them intelligent), and they all say the same thing: "jobs are good economy is good". The Democrats respond with "Trump's impulsive". They are like "Yeah, so what?"

There's still a long way to go before November, but why do we never hear the word "deficit"? The Democrats always talk about the last thing Trump said or did, and that's what lost them 2016 and will lose 2020.
 

JinCA

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The one thing there is no solution to is that there is a major news network whose entire mission is to tell its viewers why Democrats are bad and Republicans are good. Plenty of people in the middle watch Fox and think its real news.
That's why dems need to go on that network and fight back instead of pretending it doesn't exist.
 

JinCA

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Well then let us hope that a dem actually does it. Haven't seen any on there recently :wink:
Your dream girl was on there last week talking about what a poor decision Trump made in killing Soleiman and how unfit Trump is for the job :)
 

JinCA

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So no dems then?

Was that before or after not voting to impeach
Being that she was talking about the Soleimani assassination it was last week as you are well aware. Her vote on impeachment doesn't matter, it was going through regardless and she's got the right to vote how she sees fit. Do I wish she had voted yes? yes I do but I'm not one of these people who think she's owned by Russians or trying to get a job at fox so I don't look at everything she does with suspicion.
 

yankeessuck

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Being that she was talking about the Soleimani assassination it was last week as you are well aware. Her vote on impeachment doesn't matter, it was going through regardless and she's got the right to vote how she sees fit. Do I wish she had voted yes? yes I do but I'm not one of these people who think she's owned by Russians or trying to get a job at fox so I don't look at everything she does with suspicion.
And how many times has she gone on there to s*** on Democrats and repeat GOP talking points? Because that isn't even a comment on her its a comment on Fox. If she doesn't s*** on Democrats Fox is going to stop giving her time.

And that is the whole point. Someone who watches Fox that can be swayed would at best just come to the conclusion that Tulsi is one of the good ones. A Democrat saying both parties suck doesn't help Democrats. It helps Republicans.
 

Kerosene31

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Tusli isn't just bad for Democrats, she's dangerous. Her being critical of Trump on Iran is really suspect. I can't say what her exact motives are, but I know that the right wants the Democrats talking Iran. Trump would much rather be talking Iran than talking Impeachment.

At the very least, Fox News is going to show her as "reasonable" and then make her out to be the victim of the "extremist left". The fact that she repeats their narrative regularly is suspect.

I don't know if the alt right would put millions into her campaign just to cause problems for the other side, but if you don't think that is very possible, you are underestimating what the alt right can and will do to win.

If Tulsi goes away after the primary I'll admit I was wrong, but she could very well run indie or at least be very vocal during the main election.
 

yankeessuck

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Tusli isn't just bad for Democrats, she's dangerous. Her being critical of Trump on Iran is really suspect. I can't say what her exact motives are, but I know that the right wants the Democrats talking Iran. Trump would much rather be talking Iran than talking Impeachment.

At the very least, Fox News is going to show her as "reasonable" and then make her out to be the victim of the "extremist left". The fact that she repeats their narrative regularly is suspect.

I don't know if the alt right would put millions into her campaign just to cause problems for the other side, but if you don't think that is very possible, you are underestimating what the alt right can and will do to win.

If Tulsi goes away after the primary I'll admit I was wrong, but she could very well run indie or at least be very vocal during the main election.
And I think the reason people have such suspicions about her is because of the campaign she has run. Yeah its hard to imagine she was ever going to win but she also never tried to win or to put herself in a situation to win in the future. She is too young to burn her political future if she wants one so you have to wonder what her end game is.
 
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JinCA

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And how many times has she gone on there to s*** on Democrats and repeat GOP talking points? Because that isn't even a comment on her its a comment on Fox. If she doesn't s*** on Democrats Fox is going to stop giving her time.

And that is the whole point. Someone who watches Fox that can be swayed would at best just come to the conclusion that Tulsi is one of the good ones. A Democrat saying both parties suck doesn't help Democrats. It helps Republicans.
She s***s on dems that deserve it and she s***s on republicans too, I respect that a lot more than someone who bashes the other side at every turn but then turns around and says there was nothing wrong with Hunter Biden sitting on the board of that Ukrainian energy company. There are plenty of idiotic democrats who want nothing more than to keep the status quo going and serving their corporate donors every chance they get. If you can't call out your own party for BS you shouldn't be calling out anyone else either.
 

yankeessuck

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She s***s on dems that deserve it and she s***s on republicans too, I respect that a lot more than someone who bashes the other side at every turn but then turns around and says there was nothing wrong with Hunter Biden sitting on the board of that Ukrainian energy company. There are plenty of idiotic democrats who want nothing more than to keep the status quo going and serving their corporate donors every chance they get. If you can't call out your own party for BS you shouldn't be calling out anyone else either.
Like when she said she was going boycott the debate because the primary is rigged? That wasn't calling out those who deserve it it was just her being divisive.

She plays the both sides are to blame card when its clear that isn't the case. Which is why she voted the way she did for impeachment and why she blamed both for the shutdown. Forget for a second what you think about those issues. Those are aren't stances that are going to win you democratic voters so it only makes sense if its an honest take and we both that isn't the case.

And again what is she accomplishing her other than making some conservatives like her? She isn't running for reelection. She isn't putting herself in a position to be a VP or have a job in an administration which she could have.