The End of the World: A Political Thread.

yankeessuck

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I've only watched clips but I'm at the point where I see Biden, Klobuchar and Buttigieg as interchangeable and any one of them getting elected would basically be the same thing. I wish the moderators would have asked Warren why she decided it was time to leak that supposed quote from Sanders yesterday and then pretend that she doesn't want to talk about it today but instead we get "How did you feel when he said that thing to you that he just denied saying?" lol I read that Steyer was better than several of them (someone needs to ask him what Warren and Bernie were saying when she wouldn't shake his hand lol) and that Buttigieg was basically a bystander for a change. I have also read that none of them looked to be ready to go up against Trump and that's got to change, they need to start hitting Biden and Bernie needs to start being more aggressive.
I honestly thought Steyer was better than all of them.

I think what you are saying is why these fields should be smaller. If its going to be Biden people need to be sure he is actually up to it
 

Viktor

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I went to the Panther arena for the first time this past weekend. Glad I got a visit in before it has to be razed to the ground.
 

JinCA

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I honestly thought Steyer was better than all of them.

I think what you are saying is why these fields should be smaller. If its going to be Biden people need to be sure he is actually up to it
I think we should weed out voices that all echo the same thing for sure, I think we need to keep people up there with differing opinions so people get a clear choice. I hope Biden isn't the nominee but if they keep letting him go without questioning his record in a more forceful way it'll lead to trump and his team doing it and making it look 100X worse. They don't have to do it like Harris, it backfired on her because it turned out that she had the same position as him and the fact that she already had t-shirts printed ahead of time proved it was a planned attack and while they all do that it comes off as fake when people find out about it.
 

yankeessuck

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I think we should weed out voices that all echo the same thing for sure, I think we need to keep people up there with differing opinions so people get a clear choice. I hope Biden isn't the nominee but if they keep letting him go without questioning his record in a more forceful way it'll lead to trump and his team doing it and making it look 100X worse. They don't have to do it like Harris, it backfired on her because it turned out that she had the same position as him and the fact that she already had t-shirts printed ahead of time proved it was a planned attack and while they all do that it comes off as fake when people find out about it.
It pretty much has to be head to head by Super Tuesday or Biden will stroll easily to the nomination
 

hrudey

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I heard this morning from some woman whose name I forget but was on the CNN pre-debate show and is a cohost usually on Sirius XM Progress' morning show [edit to add: Jess McIntosh] that it's pretty well known that what Bernie actually said was that because Trump is such a rampant misogynist, he can weaponize that if he's running against a woman, and that's what the fundamental disagreement is about. I think both handled it okay last night - though CNN's complete ignoring of Bernie's response was inexcusable. They were the ones who reported it, sourced to the two people who Warren told about it when it happened, and they needed to either challenge Bernie with that, ask Warren to back up the claim, or both.

With that said, Warren doing the finger counting while Bernie was crowing about an election win in 1990 was pretty funny.
 
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JinCA

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I heard this morning from some woman whose name I forget but was on the CNN pre-debate show and is a cohost usually on Sirius XM Progress' morning show [edit to add: Jess McIntosh] that it's pretty well known that what Bernie actually said was that because Trump is such a rampant misogynist, he can weaponize that if he's running against a woman, and that's what the fundamental disagreement is about. I think both handled it okay last night - though CNN's complete ignoring of Bernie's response was inexcusable. They were the ones who reported it, sourced to the two people who Warren told about it when it happened, and they needed to either challenge Bernie with that, ask Warren to back up the claim, or both.

With that said, Warren doing the finger counting while Bernie was crowing about an election win in 1990 was pretty funny.
Warren had her team leak it and that's the problem, she also released a statement where she basically backed up the leak and then said she didn't want to talk about the rest of the conversation which means there is no context to anything he said only how she took it. She's been going way overboard on the identity politics stuff for a while and that's been the cause for a lot of people being turned off by her. We all know she's a woman there is no need to constantly bring it up, she seems to be running for President of twitter instead of President of the United States.
 

yankeessuck

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I don't see how both aren't hurt by this

Plus it seems pretty short sighted to introduce the idea of fear of whether a woman can win in an election where so many voters seem not care about anything other than Trump losing.
 
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JinCA

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I don't see how both aren't hurt by this

Plus it seems pretty short sighted to introduce the idea of fear of whether a woman can win in an election where so many voters seem not care about anything other than Trump losing.
It was an amateur move, she has a lot of people working on her campaign who worked on the Clinton campaign and many of them still hold grudges, a lot of them are "never Bernie" people lol.
 

hrudey

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It was an amateur move, she has a lot of people working on her campaign who worked on the Clinton campaign and many of them still hold grudges, a lot of them are "never Bernie" people lol.
Cool story, bro. I mean, if she had told people about it two years ago, it would... Oh, right.

Putting aside the origination of the whole thing (which, again, I posted what I heard above), the way she handled it at the debate was the winning move. She's not going to meaningfully pull support from the Bernie Bros, but by tacking a little more moderate and putting in the reminder that women were the reason the Dems win in 2018 is a winner. Iowa is huge for the race, and over 60% of the voters there aren't firm yet. Unless klobuchar doubles her support fast, her voters in Iowa will mostly end up counting for their second choice because of the 15% rule. The polling after yesterday shows that she now has the highest net favorability, while Bernie dropped and klob gained the most. (See fivethirtyeight's debate in charts post, which is hard to link on my phone).
 

JinCA

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Cool story, bro. I mean, if she had told people about it two years ago, it would... Oh, right.

Putting aside the origination of the whole thing (which, again, I posted what I heard above), the way she handled it at the debate was the winning move. She's not going to meaningfully pull support from the Bernie Bros, but by tacking a little more moderate and putting in the reminder that women were the reason the Dems win in 2018 is a winner. Iowa is huge for the race, and over 60% of the voters there aren't firm yet. Unless klobuchar doubles her support fast, her voters in Iowa will mostly end up counting for their second choice because of the 15% rule. The polling after yesterday shows that she now has the highest net favorability, while Bernie dropped and klob gained the most. (See fivethirtyeight's debate in charts post, which is hard to link on my phone).
Warren has been dropping in the polls steadily for a while now and she needed something to grab peoples attention. She's been talking a lot about the identity stuff, she keeps using Latinx when speaking about Latino's (even though over 80% of them don't like that term) because she's focused too much on the twitter SJW crowd, nearly every time I hear her speak she brings up being a woman as if it's not already obvious, she's even got her pronouns in her twitter bio.

It was dirty pool to leak something negative against Bernie that can't be proven one way or the other the day before a debate and then pretend to take the high road when asked about it, it was cheap. I know some on her side are mad because Bernie's surrogates were out there saying she's not bringing in new voters and that she's mostly appealing to affluent white suburban voters and that's not a slant against her it's just the truth.

As much as I hate to say it I've had a bit of a change of heart and I have to say tha out of the two women I think Klobuchar would do a better job against Trump in the general, I would still rather have Warren be POTUS between the two of them but I think Klobuchar would be harder to knock out simply because she doesn't have any cracks in her armor the way Warren does when it comes to honesty. I don't think Klobuchar is inspirational in any way but she's also not a turnoff to people the way Warren is either, she doesn't play the SJW card and she doesn't try to divide everyone the way Warren does.

If we put someone up who's always talking identity politics and who always wants a fight it's going to end up turning a lot of independents off. We need someone who can inspire the base and really bring in new voters like Bernie or possibly Yang or someone who seems safe and steady and brings in moderate independents and some never Trumpers on board like Klobuchar likely would. I don't think Biden or Buttigieg can beat Trump and I think at the end of the day Warren would end up pulling a Hillary and win the popular vote by running up the score in California but lose the electoral college.
 

Kerosene31

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I could totally see the Warren thing being staged. The only doubt is that I have't seen it being pushed from her side, but it is definitely exactly the kind of attention grabbing thing she needed in the race. The timing seems really suspect. These candidates have people thinking about their every move, phrase, and even gestures.

This knocks her down a peg or two in my eyes for sure. I'm really disappointed. I'm still not even sure exactly what she claimed Bernie said, but saying he doesn't think a woman can be President isn't necessarily bad. I question how much harder it will be for a woman to win, that's not because of my feelings. In a country where Trump won an election you can't ignore that those things play a major role. I have no problem voting for a woman President, but a lot of voters out there do.

Pretending that misogeny doesn't exist doesn't help anyone IMHO.

I waffle back and forth on this more and more. Should we just go with the safe, boring Biden?
 

yankeessuck

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I could totally see the Warren thing being staged. The only doubt is that I have't seen it being pushed from her side, but it is definitely exactly the kind of attention grabbing thing she needed in the race. The timing seems really suspect. These candidates have people thinking about their every move, phrase, and even gestures.

This knocks her down a peg or two in my eyes for sure. I'm really disappointed. I'm still not even sure exactly what she claimed Bernie said, but saying he doesn't think a woman can be President isn't necessarily bad. I question how much harder it will be for a woman to win, that's not because of my feelings. In a country where Trump won an election you can't ignore that those things play a major role. I have no problem voting for a woman President, but a lot of voters out there do.

Pretending that misogeny doesn't exist doesn't help anyone IMHO.

I waffle back and forth on this more and more. Should we just go with the safe, boring Biden?
I definitely think he could said it would be harder because I think it definitely would be at least a bit but I can't imagine how he could believe a woman couldn't beat him. Regardless I think its wrong for it to be out there especially if she isn't willing to go into more detail.

Everyone worries me. Biden's flubs are going to be more obvious when all the attention is on him and is actually getting attacked over it. Bernie is so far left that I have trouble believing voters wouldn't be scared. I don't see how voters don't shut their ears and flee when they hear their private insurance is going away and their taxes are going up. Warren has never shown the ability the really win over the independents and you know the Pocahontas stuff is coming back.

Biden is still the safest bet and the one who would be more likely to come with the Senate.
 

Plainview

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parnas' first interview was interesting. You can see republicans attacking him already. He connected a lot of dots. Not much new information. But he did name nunez specifically. Surprise... nunez suddenly remembers him.

 

Plainview

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Pelosi ha played this impeachment like a chess master. I had doubts, but she's made the most of it. The trial will be going on when the orange idiot gives the state of the union. She took the news completely away from Iran. She absolutely killed trump's failed touting at a fallacy of a trade deal. She delayed it until more evidence came out. This was straight up chess master level s***.
 

Viktor

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I haven't watched any of the debates and just read up on the notes of what happened. I know at one point it seemed like there was a pretty big media push for Klobuchar, but haven't really heard from her that much outside of Pod Save America's debate recaps having some good things to say. I'd prefer Bernie or Warren but it's more important to win so I may be more towards her or even Biden which is my personal last option.
 

Kerosene31

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I definitely think he could said it would be harder because I think it definitely would be at least a bit but I can't imagine how he could believe a woman couldn't beat him. Regardless I think its wrong for it to be out there especially if she isn't willing to go into more detail.

Everyone worries me. Biden's flubs are going to be more obvious when all the attention is on him and is actually getting attacked over it. Bernie is so far left that I have trouble believing voters wouldn't be scared. I don't see how voters don't shut their ears and flee when they hear their private insurance is going away and their taxes are going up. Warren has never shown the ability the really win over the independents and you know the Pocahontas stuff is coming back.

Biden is still the safest bet and the one who would be more likely to come with the Senate.
I'm starting to warm to Biden a lot more. He's not a lot of people's 1st choice, but he is safe enough to be high on anyone's list.

I just worry about his energy in a long campaign. You know Trump is going to be running hard. One of Hillary's issues was her getting sick and not being able to campaign. Nobody fell for her "she's too sick" nonsense, but it took her off the campaign trail which hurt.

I also worry about him being "dull" to the base (especially the more left leaning). Are they going to turn out to support him?
 

yankeessuck

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I'm starting to warm to Biden a lot more. He's not a lot of people's 1st choice, but he is safe enough to be high on anyone's list.

I just worry about his energy in a long campaign. You know Trump is going to be running hard. One of Hillary's issues was her getting sick and not being able to campaign. Nobody fell for her "she's too sick" nonsense, but it took her off the campaign trail which hurt.

I also worry about him being "dull" to the base (especially the more left leaning). Are they going to turn out to support him?
Might need an exciting VP although I have no idea who that would or could be. I would just hope people learned their lesson from 2016 even if they disappointed that it isn't Bernie or whoever. Small step forward is still way better than a giant step back.

If Biden does win I hope he just runs away with it right from the start.