The End of the World: A Political Thread. A New Hope coming soon!

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Mexico paying for it is pie in the sky. The wall itself is just as unrealistic as anything Bernie proposes. The person who wrote the article has to be honest and admit the double standard if I am going to take anything in it seriously.

Bernie won't be able to do the things he wants to do and his campaign and supporters have made everyone who tries be more realistic look corrupt or like a snake and I will be the first in line to complain about him if he loses but if the topic is about actually speaking to these types of people? There isn't a better option. He will talk to them in a way other Democrats won't and he will make the argument about the economy in a way the others won't.

It is just sad that with 678 people running that there isn't a clear alternative. We should be having the discussion of whether it should be Bernie or ___.

Bernie wants an immediate halt to deportations, and elimination of ICE and CBP.

This isn't spin, it is right off his site.


Are people who voted for a wall in 2016 going to now vote for this? Bernie's policy is basically open borders that the right accuses everyone of wanting.
 
Bernie wants an immediate halt to deportations, and elimination of ICE and CBP.

This isn't spin, it is right off his site.


Are people who voted for a wall in 2016 going to now vote for this? Bernie's policy is basically open borders that the right accuses everyone of wanting.

People that voted for a wall are probably a lost cause
 
People that voted for a wall are probably a lost cause

Many are, but lumping them all into the "deplorable" category is a great way to lose 2020. You have to figure there's 10-20% of "middle" voters out there who maybe made a poor choice in 2016, but who might think better of it in 2020. These are the people I worry Bernie will scare off. Now as I've said, if Bernie gets new people to vote for him, we can ignore the swing vote.

I just hope people see that we're sort or turning on people who did vote on the hope that others who didn't now come out. That very well could happen and I hope it does.

I can just see myself in the summer and fall telling people to "not worry about Bernie's more extreme ideas because congress will keep him centered". That scares me. I will 100% vote for anyone but Trump (I'd mail my vote in now if I could), but if this were someone like say Romney or even W Bush (hypothetically of course)? I don't know if I would vote for Bernie.
 
Many are, but lumping them all into the "deplorable" category is a great way to lose 2020. You have to figure there's 10-20% of "middle" voters out there who maybe made a poor choice in 2016, but who might think better of it in 2020. These are the people I worry Bernie will scare off. Now as I've said, if Bernie gets new people to vote for him, we can ignore the swing vote.

I just hope people see that we're sort or turning on people who did vote on the hope that others who didn't now come out. That very well could happen and I hope it does.

I can just see myself in the summer and fall telling people to "not worry about Bernie's more extreme ideas because congress will keep him centered". That scares me. I will 100% vote for anyone but Trump (I'd mail my vote in now if I could), but if this were someone like say Romney or even W Bush (hypothetically of course)? I don't know if I would vote for Bernie.

I think people that think like this are why we are screwed but why we are screwed no matter what.

If people are longing for the days of W then this country is a lost cause.
 
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Sorry, but the way people talk down to those of us who don't like Bernie are exactly why I worry Trump is going to win 2020 and beyond.
 
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Sorry, but the way people talk down to those of us who don't like Bernie are exactly why I worry Trump is going to win 2020 and beyond.

Come on don't play the victim card I'm no Bernie cheerleader. I voted for Hillary in 2016 for crying out loud. I have been annoyed with Bernie for years just ask JinCA

People shouldn't be willing to look fondly on the Bush administration just because he knew how to keep his mouth shut and read a teleprompter and be Presidential.

And I know you are going to say that you weren't saying you would vote for W or Romney you just might not vote for Bernie but that is the thinking that got us into this mess in the first place and that thinking will keep us screwed. Stop waiting for the perfect candidate. They don't exist.
 
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Sorry, but the way people talk down to those of us who don't like Bernie are exactly why I worry Trump is going to win 2020 and beyond.
Those people are a vocal minority, but it was probably that minority that put us in this position. I have to figure there were enough Bernie 'I'm not gonna vote' supporters that cost Hillary the election. trump won by less than 45,000 people in Pennsylvania and less than 11,000 in Michigan.
 
Come on don't play the victim card I'm no Bernie cheerleader. I voted for Hillary in 2016 for crying out loud. I have been annoyed with Bernie for years just ask JinCA

People shouldn't be willing to look fondly on the Bush administration just because he knew how to keep his mouth shut and read a teleprompter and be Presidential.

And I know you are going to say that you weren't saying you would vote for W or Romney you just might not vote for Bernie but that is the thinking that got us into this mess in the first place and that thinking will keep us screwed. Stop waiting for the perfect candidate. They don't exist.

I wasn't looking back on W Bush fondly, I was giving my opinion. You know that, but decided to attack that point instead of listening to what I say about not liking Bernie.

Bernie v Trump is obvious. Anything is better. What bothers you is that I am informed on Bernie (been following him for a long, long time now, well before 2016) and I simply don't like him. His website preaches open borders + free college for everyone + free healthcare for everyone. I hope you can win an election on that. I really do. You have my +1 in NY State for what it is worth (nothing).

If Trump wins in 2020, we are done. I don't subscribe to the Bill Maher fatalism that Trump won't leave now, but after 2020, it will be Trump Jr in 2024 and America as we know it will no longer exist. I just hope people are right about America warming to Bernie.
 
I wasn't looking back on W Bush fondly, I was giving my opinion. You know that, but decided to attack that point instead of listening to what I say about not liking Bernie.

Bernie v Trump is obvious. Anything is better. What bothers you is that I am informed on Bernie (been following him for a long, long time now, well before 2016) and I simply don't like him. His website preaches open borders + free college for everyone + free healthcare for everyone. I hope you can win an election on that. I really do. You have my +1 in NY State for what it is worth (nothing).

If Trump wins in 2020, we are done. I don't subscribe to the Bill Maher fatalism that Trump won't leave now, but after 2020, it will be Trump Jr in 2024 and America as we know it will no longer exist. I just hope people are right about America warming to Bernie.

I am attacking it because someone that thinks Trump is a disaster should certainly think W was as well and I suspect you do think W was a disaster so I don't get what your point is about not voting if it was Bernie vs W.

I don't why you think I am bothered by you not wanting it to be Bernie. I have never pushed for it to be Bernie other than better than to be Bernie than brokered convention. I didn't want him to win in 2016. I didn't want him to run in 2020. I wanted him to drop out when he had a heart attack. Why would I be upset that you have issues with Bernie? I have issues with Bernie. That wasn't what we were talking about. You also aren't talking about your personal Bernie issues you are talking about his electability issues.

It will never be Trump Jr. He has no charisma. He won't be able to keep the base.
 
Those people are a vocal minority, but it was probably that minority that put us in this position. I have to figure there were enough Bernie 'I'm not gonna vote' supporters that cost Hillary the election. trump won by less than 45,000 people in Pennsylvania and less than 11,000 in Michigan.

There were more Hillary supporters in 2008 that didn't vote for Obama than Bernie supporters that didn't vote for Hillary in 2016, people keep trying to lay her loss on Bernie supporters and it's just not fair. Hillary didn't speak to those voters needs and that's why we lost, telling people who are struggling that "America is already great" isn't really a winning message.
 
There were more Hillary supporters in 2008 that didn't vote for Obama than Bernie supporters that didn't vote for Hillary in 2016, people keep trying to lay her loss on Bernie supporters and it's just not fair. Hillary didn't speak to those voters needs and that's why we lost, telling people who are struggling that "America is already great" isn't really a winning message.
I've said before, it wasn't one thing, it was multiple things, but of ONE of those things didn't occur, she would have won.
 
I've said before, it wasn't one thing, it was multiple things, but of ONE of those things didn't occur, she would have won.

She and Trump were the 2 least popular candidates in the nations history, making her be the nominee was the real issue.
 
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There were more Hillary supporters in 2008 that didn't vote for Obama than Bernie supporters that didn't vote for Hillary in 2016, people keep trying to lay her loss on Bernie supporters and it's just not fair. Hillary didn't speak to those voters needs and that's why we lost, telling people who are struggling that "America is already great" isn't really a winning message.

The evidence of this is shaky at best once you actually look into it. Various polling puts the Bernie to Trump percentages just a little lower than Hillary to McCain but you also need to consider that third party voting was up. Then again Hillary had more voters in 2008 so its probably a wash.

I agree with what Plainview is saying lots of things happened that led to Trump winning. Hillary running a bad campaign can be true and be #1 and it can still be fair to point out that there things that could have happened or not happened that might have led to a different result. I know you hate that because you think it excuses her but it doesn't.

The party should have united faster. Bernie was still talking about how could win in June despite having no shot. And on that same note Hillary could have made an attempt to unite with her VP pick and didn't.

Good chance we are heading towards a much much worse fight in people don't unite behind Bernie
 
Are people who voted for a wall in 2016 going to now vote for this? Bernie's policy is basically open borders that the right accuses everyone of wanting.
Anybody worried about potentially handing over heavily taxed healthcare free of charge to visitors that cross the border? The deficit is already out of control and if Bernie does get what he wants how long before the entire system constitution and all topples over? Is this the goal? Denmark is heavily taxed as well but they don't give visitors free healthcare.
 
Anybody worried about potentially handing over heavily taxed healthcare free of charge to visitors that cross the border? The deficit is already out of control and if Bernie does get what he wants how long before the entire system constitution and all topples over? Is this the goal? Denmark is heavily taxed as well but they don't give visitors free healthcare.


No not really, does any one ask about the cost of bombs we drop accidently on hospitals and schools? I understand people not wanting to give to those that are not citizens, especially if they came here illegally. However, the numbers say they help our economy so keeping them healthy helps us all. And why should we not invest in our blue collar working citizens because of a whataboutism?


https://www.pbs.org/newshour/econom...s-about-how-immigrants-affect-the-u-s-economy

"
Myth #1: Immigrants take more from the U.S. government than they contribute
Fact: Immigrants contribute more in tax revenue than they take in government benefits

A 2017 report from the National Academies of Sciences, Engineering, and Medicine found immigration “has an overall positive impact on the long-run economic growth in the U.S.”
How that breaks down is important.
First-generation immigrants cost the government more than native-born Americans, according to the report — about $1,600 per person annually. But second generation immigrants are “among the strongest fiscal and economic contributors in the U.S.,” the report found. They contribute about $1,700 per person per year. All other native-born Americans, including third generation immigrants, contribute $1,300 per year on average.

After being detained and released by law enforcement, undocumented immigrants from Central America wait for assistance in a Catholic Charities relief center in McAllen, Texas. Photo by Loren Elliott/Reuters.
It is difficult to determine the exact cost or contribution of unauthorized immigrants because they are harder to survey, but the study suggests they likely have a more positive effect than their legal counterparts because they are, on average, younger and do not qualify for public benefits.
It’s also important to note that less-educated immigrants tend to work more than people with the same level of education born in the U.S. About half of all U.S.-born Americans with no high school diploma work, compared to about 70 percent of immigrants with the same education level, Giovanni Peri, an economics professor at the University of California, Davis, said in a recent interview with PBS NewsHour.

"
 
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Anybody worried about potentially handing over heavily taxed healthcare free of charge to visitors that cross the border? The deficit is already out of control and if Bernie does get what he wants how long before the entire system constitution and all topples over? Is this the goal? Denmark is heavily taxed as well but they don't give visitors free healthcare.

Whether it is true or not is not important (that's how the policies on Bernie's website are listed as much as people don't want to read them). The right will use this to scare off voters in the middle. It will take an issue the Democrats should win and make it into a loser.

In reality, Bernie's policies will probably never be implemented as worded anyway, which is why I would love for someone to go over them all and file down the sharp edges on them. That's not Bernie though, with Bernie you get his unfiltered, idealistic view each and every time.

It isn't about whether I agree or disagree with Bernie, it is how the majority of people who vote will feel about him. I am really concerned that you are going to run open borders against Trump. It would be great if we lived in a country that wasn't steeped in racism and xenophobia, but Trump's been stirring that up for years now.

Anyway, I do promise to bite my tongue on Bernie after Super Tuesday. I will fall in line with the party no matter what happens. Any Democrat will have my vote. I voted down the party line in 2018 and will likely do the same in 2020 for everything, not just president.
 
Biden had his best debate last night but overall the debate was a real mess mostly because the moderators were terrible. 7 people on stage a week before Super Tuesday is outrageous.
 
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Didn't watch any of it but heard complaints that the crowd was paid Bloomberg supporters lol. Even if not, they were going for over a grand a seat so no surprise that people were booing Bernie's wish to raise teacher salaries or something.
 
Didn't watch any of it but heard complaints that the crowd was paid Bloomberg supporters lol. Even if not, they were going for over a grand a seat so no surprise that people were booing Bernie's wish to raise teacher salaries or something.

The DNC charged something like $1700 a ticket to be able to attend so it's safe to say that wasn't going to be a Bernie friendly crowd.
 
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Anybody worried about potentially handing over heavily taxed healthcare free of charge to visitors that cross the border? The deficit is already out of control and if Bernie does get what he wants how long before the entire system constitution and all topples over? Is this the goal? Denmark is heavily taxed as well but they don't give visitors free healthcare.

I know people who went on trips to countries with nationalized healthcare and got sick, they were treated and paid next to nothing for it, this isn't a rare thing.
 
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Whether it is true or not is not important (that's how the policies on Bernie's website are listed as much as people don't want to read them). The right will use this to scare off voters in the middle. It will take an issue the Democrats should win and make it into a loser.

In reality, Bernie's policies will probably never be implemented as worded anyway, which is why I would love for someone to go over them all and file down the sharp edges on them. That's not Bernie though, with Bernie you get his unfiltered, idealistic view each and every time.

It isn't about whether I agree or disagree with Bernie, it is how the majority of people who vote will feel about him. I am really concerned that you are going to run open borders against Trump. It would be great if we lived in a country that wasn't steeped in racism and xenophobia, but Trump's been stirring that up for years now.

Anyway, I do promise to bite my tongue on Bernie after Super Tuesday. I will fall in line with the party no matter what happens. Any Democrat will have my vote. I voted down the party line in 2018 and will likely do the same in 2020 for everything, not just president.

Not wanting open borders isn't racist or xenophobic but I get what you are saying.
 
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People don't understand why average middle to lower class people keep voting Trump, because they don't really try and understand it.

Ask Speaker Kevin McCarthy or the Republican governors of Louisiana or Kentucky about how people "keep voting Trump."
 
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