The End of the World: A Political Thread.

JinCA

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Sep 11, 2013
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This is why people believe in Bernie, he stands up for the little guy. Meanwhile Joe Biden crawled out of his hole and sadly tried to make a speech where his prompter broke then he went and did TV interviews where he screwed up what he was trying to say badly. I like Joe Biden but I don't know how anyone believes out of the choices that we had that he should have been the nominee. Hell I know Cuomo isn't a progressive but I'd take him over Biden right now simply because I don't think Biden is up to the task and I think he'll lose.
 

JinCA

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Wow that's one way to do it lol, I hope they have a lot of confidence in their healthcare system. Honestly if I didn't take care of my Mom and didn't have to worry about passing it on to her I'd rather just get it now and get it over with instead of worrying about it. Don't get me wrong I don't want to get sick but I hate the stress of worrying about it plus getting it early would be better if you had complications, at least the hospitals around here wouldn't be overrun yet.
 

Zer0beaT

Go Leafs Go!
Sep 11, 2013
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This is why people believe in Bernie, he stands up for the little guy. Meanwhile Joe Biden crawled out of his hole and sadly tried to make a speech where his prompter broke then he went and did TV interviews where he screwed up what he was trying to say badly. I like Joe Biden but I don't know how anyone believes out of the choices that we had that he should have been the nominee. Hell I know Cuomo isn't a progressive but I'd take him over Biden right now simply because I don't think Biden is up to the task and I think he'll lose.
Hey man, I'm not American so excuse me for saying, but how the f*** do you not vote for this guy?

People want change or something in the USA so they vote Trump? For what kind of change?
 

JinCA

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Hey man, I'm not American so excuse me for saying, but how the f*** do you not vote for this guy?

People want change or something in the USA so they vote Trump? For what kind of change?
I don't get it either, some people are put off by his personality and others have honest disagreements with him but there is no question in my mind that this is the guy who would work the hardest for the poor and middle class.
 

BettaCall911

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Sep 12, 2013
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Hey man, I'm not American so excuse me for saying, but how the f*** do you not vote for this guy?

People want change or something in the USA so they vote Trump? For what kind of change?
For most people I would think the problem is he can't really explain how he will pay for what he wants to do.
 

Videodrome

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Sep 12, 2013
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We don't really vote for people anymore. We vote against them.

This includes selecting a party candidate who can beat the other person. For some reason, we cave into an idea that the guy with the ideas we like might not have the campaign strength or popular appeal to beat the other guy.
 

yankeessuck

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Sep 12, 2013
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Hey man, I'm not American so excuse me for saying, but how the f*** do you not vote for this guy?

People want change or something in the USA so they vote Trump? For what kind of change?
Because he ran a terrible campaign.

Made no changes from 2016
Planned to win by getting only 30% of the delegates. This is actually true. 30%
Made no effort to get endorsements

Great speech by Bernie but its annoying how twitter decided he deserves all the credit but not any of the senators who had to crowbar anything decent out of the GOP for this bill.
 
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Pureshooter

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Hey man, I'm not American so excuse me for saying, but how the f*** do you not vote for this guy?

People want change or something in the USA so they vote Trump? For what kind of change?
It's because he has "socialism" attached to his name and policies which the media try to skew as "evil" and "communist". Of course, this is despite the fact that some of our most popular policies are very socialist in nature.
 

Pureshooter

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For most people I would think the problem is he can't really explain how he will pay for what he wants to do.
I think we know, he just won't say it because it will give the right key talking points about how Bernie wants to compromise national security by cutting our ridiculous military budget and how corporations will flee the US if they have to pay their fair share in taxes (also not true).
 

Kerosene31

What happened to the American Dream? It came true.
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For most people I would think the problem is he can't really explain how he will pay for what he wants to do.
Only Democrats have to live up to that standard though. Republicans increase spending and nobody ever questions it. Their tax cuts have not come remotely close to "paying for themselves". Last night the gov't voted to spend $2.2 trillion.

Republicans have been driving up deficits more than Democrats my entire lifetime, yet somehow there's a different standard. I'm frequently told that the GOP is the party of fiscal responsibility. Really? Not in my lifetime:

Clinton was great for the economy. Obama led during massive economic growth. W Bush? Historic recession. Even Reagan for as great as he was spent a lot. Trump has been racking up tons and tons of unneeded debt, so now when we actually need it, he already spent too much.

I frequently get told that "we can't afford any more tax and spend Democrats". Really? I don't think we can afford any more Republicans.
 
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JinCA

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Because he ran a terrible campaign.

Made no changes from 2016
Planned to win by getting only 30% of the delegates. This is actually true. 30%
Made no effort to get endorsements

Great speech by Bernie but its annoying how twitter decided he deserves all the credit but not any of the senators who had to crowbar anything decent out of the GOP for this bill.
He made changes they just weren't something you'd see on camera, his campaign went big on latino outreach and it showed in states with large latino populations. Sadly he didn't focus on the south, it seems silly to have to win people over in the south when we won't even compete there in the general but that's the process we have. Biden had built in support with older African Americans just for being Obama's VP which is a bit silly to me because anyone who was asked would have taken that job it's not like he did Obama a favor. The more Biden tries to show "leadership" during this pandemic the more incapable he looks, he's not up to the task and it's showing. It took his team forever to set up a "studio" in his basement and Biden has flubbed just about every televised interview he's had since they got him set up to go public again.

Bernie gets the credit because he was willing to hold up the bill for that, as far as I'm aware nobody else was. Bernie stands up for the middle class and poor constantly, too many in the party only pay those groups lip service.
 

JinCA

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Sep 11, 2013
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Only Democrats have to live up to that standard though. Republicans increase spending and nobody ever questions it. Their tax cuts have not come remotely close to "paying for themselves". Last night the gov't voted to spend $2.2 trillion.

Republicans have been driving up deficits more than Democrats my entire lifetime, yet somehow there's a different standard. I'm frequently told that the GOP is the party of fiscal responsibility. Really? Not in my lifetime:

Clinton was great for the economy. Obama led during massive economic growth. W Bush? Historic recession. Even Reagan for as great as he was spent a lot. Trump has been racking up tons and tons of unneeded debt, so now when we actually need it, he already spent too much.

I frequently get told that "we can't afford any more tax and spend Democrats". Really? I don't think we can afford any more Republicans.
Sadly Clinton and Obama share a lot of blame for how bad income inequality has gotten, they both had eight year terms and wages never really went up for the average worker but executive salaries skyrocketed.

You are right about Republicans spending just as much as Dems they just don't want to pay for it, they wait until a Dem is elected and then make a big deal about the debt, it's strange that so many people don't seem to see through that.
 
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yankeessuck

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He made changes they just weren't something you'd see on camera, his campaign went big on latino outreach and it showed in states with large latino populations. Sadly he didn't focus on the south, it seems silly to have to win people over in the south when we won't even compete there in the general but that's the process we have. Biden had built in support with older African Americans just for being Obama's VP which is a bit silly to me because anyone who was asked would have taken that job it's not like he did Obama a favor. The more Biden tries to show "leadership" during this pandemic the more incapable he looks, he's not up to the task and it's showing. It took his team forever to set up a "studio" in his basement and Biden has flubbed just about every televised interview he's had since they got him set up to go public again.

Bernie gets the credit because he was willing to hold up the bill for that, as far as I'm aware nobody else was. Bernie stands up for the middle class and poor constantly, too many in the party only pay those groups lip service.
Democrats in South Carolina should get equal say in who the nominee is. The fact that our general election process sucks is not an argument for the primary to be even worse. Imagine if someone who didn't like Bernie made arguments for why states who didn't vote for him shouldn't count

But Biden beat him outside the south anyway so Bernie clearly had bigger problems than just that. No argument for how bad Biden is makes sense when discussing Bernie's failings because that is even more reason why Bernie could have been able to win. Warren's campaign put out feelers towards Bernie's and they ignored it until things got desperate. His biggest endorsement was AOC who had to prod the campaign to give her a call. Fair to assume he made no attempts to get anyone else's endorsements either. No attempt to be pragmatic with his policies. No realization that he was boosted in 2016 by being Not Hillary and that his base wasn't actually that large. You can't say he made real changes if they thought they could win by getting 30% of the delegates. That is a campaign that never had a chance.

I don't care how Biden won because Bernie still blew it. If no discussion of 2016 is allowed that isn't only "Hillary ran a bad campaign" then you can't just pretend Bernie didn't also. What happened to having to earn people's votes? There is no more excuse that he had no name recognition. No excuse that it was rigged either.

He gets the credit for being willing to hold up the bill? The bill didn't get created out of thin air. What he is fighting to protect is what Schumer (who usually stinks) and Warren and Bennet and others pushed to get in there. Bernie gets the credit because he did it on camera?
 

JinCA

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Democrats in South Carolina should get equal say in who the nominee is. The fact that our general election process sucks is not an argument for the primary to be even worse. Imagine if someone who didn't like Bernie made arguments for why states who didn't vote for him shouldn't count

But Biden beat him outside the south anyway so Bernie clearly had bigger problems than just that. No argument for how bad Biden is makes sense when discussing Bernie's failings because that is even more reason why Bernie could have been able to win. Warren's campaign put out feelers towards Bernie's and they ignored it until things got desperate. His biggest endorsement was AOC who had to prod the campaign to give her a call. Fair to assume he made no attempts to get anyone else's endorsements either. No attempt to be pragmatic with his policies. No realization that he was boosted in 2016 by being Not Hillary and that his base wasn't actually that large. You can't say he made real changes if they thought they could win by getting 30% of the delegates. That is a campaign that never had a chance.

I don't care how Biden won because Bernie still blew it. If no discussion of 2016 is allowed that isn't only "Hillary ran a bad campaign" then you can't just pretend Bernie didn't also. What happened to having to earn people's votes? There is no more excuse that he had no name recognition. No excuse that it was rigged either.

He gets the credit for being willing to hold up the bill? The bill didn't get created out of thin air. What he is fighting to protect is what Schumer (who usually stinks) and Warren and Bennet and others pushed to get in there. Bernie gets the credit because he did it on camera?
Bernie gets credit because those people you mentioned would have let it go through if the Republicans had made those changes.

Bernie lost the primary I'm not arguing that he wasn't beaten fairly because he was but saying he didn't change anything from 2016 is just wrong. When there are a ton of candidates you don't plan on winning a majority you'd like to but you plan on getting enough to win. Biden has some serious holes when it comes to Latino's and young people, everyone wants to give him an award for older black voters supporting him but then turn around ignore his weaknesses.

In many of the states outside of the south Bernie was leading in the polls, had all of those other people not dropped out he would have won and that was the whole point of what they did, there is nothing unfair about it and it was a smart move if they really didn't want him to be the nominee, I do fear they chose the wrong guy to lead the group though.
 

yankeessuck

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Bernie gets credit because those people you mentioned would have let it go through if the Republicans had made those changes.

Bernie lost the primary I'm not arguing that he wasn't beaten fairly because he was but saying he didn't change anything from 2016 is just wrong. When there are a ton of candidates you don't plan on winning a majority you'd like to but you plan on getting enough to win. Biden has some serious holes when it comes to Latino's and young people, everyone wants to give him an award for older black voters supporting him but then turn around ignore his weaknesses.

In many of the states outside of the south Bernie was leading in the polls, had all of those other people not dropped out he would have won and that was the whole point of what they did, there is nothing unfair about it and it was a smart move if they really didn't want him to be the nominee, I do fear they chose the wrong guy to lead the group though.
That is nonsense because those senators are the reason its there. Otherwise it would have gone through days ago. You are again acting like the bill fell out of the sky. Bernie can't deserve more credit for arguing for something that others argued to get in the first place. Remember that it was shot down for days as Turtle tried to push the vote through so no those people would not have let it go through. Plus it was all posturing last night anyway.

But that is the area where Bernie was strong last time. You are right that I can't say he made zero changes but he really didn't change his messaging and really didn't make any improvements with any group. You can't really argue that the campaign is that different.

And that has to fall on Bernie too. Was he going to get any of those endorsements at that point? No but I can't say none of them were ever possible if they had been working it at an earlier point. Given that he was the favorite at a point some of these career politicians would have been willing to go with him if they thought they could get something out of it. I'm sure plenty of Bernie supporters would hate the thought of those kinds of deals because establishment bad but winning is what its about. Bernie just didn't have the right people around him. At the very least he should have been working to get Warren's endorsements months ago regardless of whether it worked or not. He couldn't even get Andrew Yang's.
 

Zer0beaT

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Because he ran a terrible campaign.

Made no changes from 2016
Planned to win by getting only 30% of the delegates. This is actually true. 30%
Made no effort to get endorsements

Great speech by Bernie but its annoying how twitter decided he deserves all the credit but not any of the senators who had to crowbar anything decent out of the GOP for this bill.
So he sucks because he still believes in the same things he did 4 years ago?