The End of the World: A Political Thread.

Kerosene31

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I'm gonna be real for a minute and say that I don't think this is what happened. There's been a lot of talk on my local discord and reddit about how Stoney (mayor) and our Police Chief are putting a spin on it, because while there were apparently boogaloos dressed up in plain clothes here, the majority of the violence was done by local kids who are total "f*** the man" anarchists who are just looking to have fun smashing s***. A lot of damage was done to the university I work at, and we released security footage of said damage. The crowd is pretty diverse.

Now, that's not to say that these white nationalist dudes didn't play a part in it. I know for a fact that they've been going in and trying to splinter night time protesters and get them to cause violence, it's all over the local discussions by people who are out there night in and night out. They started Saturday's protest with a pro violence and pro damage flyer, but the people who really did the most damage were of all different races. It's tough out there, but I cannot sit here and act like it was only white nationalists when I know it wasn't.

I'm so so so sick of the night time protesters coming out nightly and trying to destroy my city. We have daytime protesters who are peaceful and you can feel the community vibing with them so well, it's powerful being there. Then as soon as the night hits it's like their message loses meaning and the court of public opinion is turning. I just want peace in my city, I don't want people shooting guns in the middle of the night trying to direct crowds to get them where they want to go like sheep. I don't want anybody getting hurt. I don't want local businesses (vast majority of the damaged businesses are owned by BIPOC) and property getting vandalized or damaged. I don't want these places to close because of the riots.

I just want my city back man.
There's very much a "they came from outside" narrative that is spun a whole lot, and is rarely accurate in any way. The idea of large, outside "paid protesters" or even outside extremist groups with this much reach is simply fictional. Anytime we've seen arrest data (hard to come by) it is mostly locals (or people in the suburbs/rural areas going to the city, but not really outsiders). For the most part, protests are starting up locally.

Local police and elected officials love it especially as it instantly does two things: shifts a little bit of blame away and unites people against an external enemy. Both sides will do this (I'm in a deep blue state and region and they do the same thing).

That said though, there has been specific evidence of white supremacist groups starting protests under the guise of black lives matter. In my town there was a specific threat to a mall (I can see it from my house so clearly I was interested). Turns out they found the organizer was a white guy with all sorts of white power stuff on his facebook feed. There's absolutely people in this country who want to start a race war. If any groups are large enough to do damage, it would be the right wing groups.

Sadly, when it comes to violence nobody wins and there's plenty of blame to go around. There's too many people out there who want things to escalate. Trump sending his storm troopers out there is a perfect example.
 
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JinCA

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He's only floating the idea of delaying the election to distract from the terrible GDP numbers, he can't do it on his own and even Moscow Mitch already said today that the election date is set in stone.
 
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Kerosene31

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He's only floating the idea of delaying the election to distract from the terrible GDP numbers, he can't do it on his own and even Moscow Mitch already said today that the election date is set in stone.
He can't stop the election, but he can lay the groundwork for the poison pill to encourage his supporters to burn the country to the ground when he loses.

It is almost a guarantee that we don't have a winner on election night with all the mail in ballots and covid precautions. That's going to look strange to people and is going to make it look like something is going on.

It is going to be a total mess.
 

JinCA

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Or just take it to the precincts
As long as the places aren't crowded sure but the point of voting by mail is to keep people from coming together. We probably won't know the winners in many states on election night, at least not in states that are offering vote by mail to everyone like they are here in CA. Of course CA will go for Biden they'll call that at 8:00 P.M. like they always do.
 

GeorgeSoros

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Very stupid. I'm not a huge Biden fan either, but this is the kind of nonsense that will get Trump re-elected.
Somebody else pointed out that she's "not a democrat". If she is not a democrat then why should she be so concerned with helping the democrats win a presidential election?

Some of the people here, now going crazy over Trump, didn't have much to say about George W. Bush when he let a terrorist attack happen on his watch and he dragged us into an endless war in the middle east.

In fact, they were often the "voice of reason" reigning people in who would talk this same way about George W. Bush's antics on the TXB forums.
 
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yankeessuck

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Somebody else pointed out that she's "not a democrat". If she is not a democrat then why should she be so concerned with helping the democrats win a presidential election?

Some of the people here, now going crazy over Trump, didn't have much to say about George W. Bush when he let a terrorist attack happen on his watch and he dragged us into an endless war in the middle east.

In fact, they were often the "voice of reason" reigning people in who would talk this same way about George W. Bush's antics on the TXB forums.
Because she was trying to help someone win the Democratic nomination for President and because we all know the choice couldn't be more clear.

Problem is she doesn't believe in what Bernie believes. She believes in getting herself attention. Biden is a 1 term President with the Supreme Court on the verge of being 7-2 conservative. She can f*** off.

I don't really care if someone was easy on W. They were wrong but people need to be given the room to grow and learn. WTF good does it do to say "you can't be right now because you were wrong 20 years ago". Isn't that a valid complaint about Trump supporters is that maybe they voted for him for an understandable reason but have no ability to recognize that he has been a dumpster fire?
 

GeorgeSoros

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Because she was trying to help someone win the Democratic nomination for President and because we all know the choice couldn't be more clear.

Problem is she doesn't believe in what Bernie believes. She believes in getting herself attention. Biden is a 1 term President with the Supreme Court on the verge of being 7-2 conservative. She can f*** off.
Moderate democrats have a lot more in common with moderate Republicans than they do someone like Nina Turner. So there is no reason why the democrats should assume she would support them. Especially when they have essentially stated that they are unwilling to earn her vote.

The situation with Debra Messing really highlighted the problem. She was on Twitter speaking as if she was this other group and she has no shared fate with these people. The democrats just need to understand that these are different voting groups with different needs just like the independents and "undecided voters" that the democrats covet so much. "Trump is a racist" is not a platform.

If you called Mitt Romney, John Mccain, and George W. Bush racists then why would anybody think that Trump is uniquely racist among conservatives? Maybe democrats cried wolf one time too many.

Really, democrats have no moral authority to shame someone like Nina Turner.

I don't really care if someone was easy on W. They were wrong but people need to be given the room to grow and learn. WTF good does it do to say "you can't be right now because you were wrong 20 years ago". Isn't that a valid complaint about Trump supporters is that maybe they voted for him for an understandable reason but have no ability to recognize that he has been a dumpster fire?
I don't believe there was any real ideological shift with many of these NeverTrumpers. They are just anti-Trump.
 

yankeessuck

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Moderate democrats have a lot more in common with moderate Republicans than they do someone like Nina Turner. So there is no reason why the democrats should assume she would support them. Especially when they have essentially stated that they are unwilling to earn her vote.

The situation with Debra Messing really highlighted the problem. She was on Twitter speaking as if she was this other group and she has no shared fate with these people. The democrats just need to understand that these are different voting groups with different needs just like the independents and "undecided voters" that the democrats covet so much. "Trump is a racist" is not a platform.

If you called Mitt Romney, John Mccain, and George W. Bush racists then why would anybody think that Trump is uniquely racist among conservatives? Maybe democrats cried wolf one time too many.

Really, democrats have no moral authority to shame someone like Nina Turner.


I don't believe there was any real ideological shift with many of these NeverTrumpers. They are just anti-Trump.
And if a third person who could win was closer to her then she would be fair to support them but that isn't reality no matter how much people want to cry about it on Twitter.. Bernie's goal if he couldn't win was to push the party to the left and he has. So you take what wins you can and come back 4 years later. That is what you do if you want real improvements and not just complain on Twitter.
 

GeorgeSoros

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And if a third person who could win was closer to her then she would be fair to support them but that isn't reality no matter how much people want to cry about it on Twitter.. Bernie's goal if he couldn't win was to push the party to the left and he has. So you take what wins you can and come back 4 years later. That is what you do if you want real improvements and not just complain on Twitter.
SMH, this was 4 years later. They've shown that they would never allow a progressive to be the nominee. They probably would have taken it from Bernie at the convention if it got that far. And the party hasn't budged at all with Joe Biden on the top of the ticket.

To put it another way, the democratic party isn't an ally or a friend of people like Nina Turner. Joe Biden seems like he is almost embarrassed to have to make concessions to progressives. He looks like he is hell-bent on not doing that at all.
 

Pureshooter

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To put it another way, the democratic party isn't an ally or a friend of people like Nina Turner. Joe Biden seems like he is almost embarrassed to have to make concessions to progressives. He looks like he is hell-bent on not doing that at all.
Do you think Nina Turner has no preference in who gets elected between Biden and Trump?
 

hrudey

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SMH, this was 4 years later. They've shown that they would never allow a progressive to be the nominee. They probably would have taken it from Bernie at the convention if it got that far.
If Bernie can't come close to beating Biden one on one, he deserved to lose. People vote, not tweets. I hope you'll find similar sentiment after November's election from Trump's Twitter bot army.
 

yankeessuck

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SMH, this was 4 years later. They've shown that they would never allow a progressive to be the nominee. They probably would have taken it from Bernie at the convention if it got that far. And the party hasn't budged at all with Joe Biden on the top of the ticket.

To put it another way, the democratic party isn't an ally or a friend of people like Nina Turner. Joe Biden seems like he is almost embarrassed to have to make concessions to progressives. He looks like he is hell-bent on not doing that at all.
He still has the most progressive platform for a nominee ever despite not being even remotely progressive. That is a success of what Bernie did. He recognizes that.

Who gives a s*** if its 4 years later? I don't care if we are having this discussion in 20 years. When its time to vote you vote for the best option. You don't take your ball and go home because you didn't get your way.
 
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GeorgeSoros

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Do you think Nina Turner has no preference in who gets elected between Biden and Trump?
I think she would prefer Biden but she feels wronged by both. Nina Turner is a widely respected member of multiple different sub-groups on the left. People don't seem to understand that they don't have the political capital built up with these other groups to just cancel Nina Turner.

He still has the most progressive platform for a nominee ever despite not being even remotely progressive. That is a success of what Bernie did. He recognizes that.

Who gives a s*** if its 4 years later? I don't care if we are having this discussion in 20 years. When its time to vote you vote for the best option. You don't take your ball and go home because you didn't get your way.
Some people believe that you should meet a minimum standard before they give you their vote. If you don't have minimum requirements for your vote big donors could just buy off all the democratic politicians and get them to vote in favor of the things they want and leftist voters would still have to vote for them.

There is no guarantee that things will ever get better. Especially not when you have this level of interference in elections.