The Naughty Dog Agenda

It has to be considered a good chance he is trolling since in a recent thread he claimed to be unsure if the Earth was flat, that the Earth was 6000 years old, and that sorcery was wrong.

Personally I love sorcery
 
It's fun to imagine the level of outrage if ND actually did accommodate Val's sensitivity and give players a "no h0mo" option* where they could avoid seeing two girls kissing.

*lol, h0mo is censored.
 
Well I was talking about more all along the lines of him wanting to close the conversation. If he didn't want the conversation he shouldn't have said anything. Now obviously he did want to have it and spread his homophobia but he can't play innocent.

Its Val so who knows if you can even take him seriously but I don't like anyone with that view point.
I have a right to voice my displeasure.

No point in continuing the convo if feelings will get hurt right?
You keep poking it knowing my responses have to be limited.

I don't like people who feel everyone has to accept everything as the norm.
Respect works both ways.
 
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It's fun to imagine the level of outrage if ND actually did accommodate Val's sensitivity and give players a "no h0mo" option* where they could avoid seeing two girls kissing.

*lol, h0mo is censored.
Exactly giving people the option to turn off offensive things would offend people with agendas and that is sad.
 
I agree and disagree, you only get a chance to help change minds if you talk to someone about the problem. Most people I've known as an adult who still feel the way he does either never really knew any out gay people so their experiences are very limited and based on stereotypes or second hand information or worse lies they are told by the church. One person I know was unfortunately abused as a kid and blamed it on the person who did it being gay even though most acts of pedophilia are committed by men towards little girls, hell the person who did it to him was married with kids of his own.

I still like Val I just wish he didn't feel the way he does on this issue.
I have some close friends who live the alternative lifestyle and i never hurt them with my views.
 
Exactly giving people the option to turn off offensive things would offend people with agendas and that is sad.

Because it doesn't make sense. Why can they not tell the story they want to tell and let consumers decide whether they want it.

If a gay love story was put in the theaters I assume you would stay home. How is this any different?

Joel murders people in TLOU. Is murder worse than two girls kissing?
 
Because it doesn't make sense. Why can they not tell the story they want to tell and let consumers decide whether they want it.

If a gay love story was put in the theaters I assume you would stay home. How is this any different?

Joel murders people in TLOU. Is murder worse than two girls kissing?
They have a right to tell and show whatever they want and i have the right to want a option to disable it and still enjoy the game as i stated a few times iwant to play.

We know people with my views aren't important is this world so a option to avoid it won't happen as they don't care about my type.

Its different cause i play games and i watch movies and no way would i see a movie that had that as its main story.
I'm a bad guy to not be about that stuff though right lol.
 
They have a right to tell and show whatever they want and i have the right to want a option to disable it and still enjoy the game as i stated a few times iwant to play.

I agree that you have the right to want it there just isn't much reason for them to give it. Wouldn't every game with any kind of sexuality have to cater to that demand? As well as games with bad language and violence? I know you will say its not the same but its not the same to you. I'm sure there are those who are offended by those things.

We know people with my views aren't important is this world so a option to avoid it won't happen as they don't care about my type.

Sadly they are way too important in this world but thankfully they just aren't that important to Naughty Dog.

Its different cause i play games and i watch movies and no way would i see a movie that had that as its main story.

Sounds like its the same then. You avoid movies that have offensive storytelling. Why would games be any different?

I'm a bad guy to not be about that stuff though right lol.

Probably yes
 
I have some close friends who live the alternative lifestyle and i never hurt them with my views.

Do they know you think they are wrong for being who they are or do you keep that to yourself?
 
Do they know you think they are wrong for being who they are or do you keep that to yourself?
Of course they do but i respect them and they respect me.

Marriage and adoption are the issues i don't bend with when talking to them so its never mentioned as they are very sensitive and i don't want to hurt them.
 
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They have a right to tell and show whatever they want and i have the right to want a option to disable it and still enjoy the game as i stated a few times iwant to play.

We know people with my views aren't important is this world so a option to avoid it won't happen as they don't care about my type.

Its different cause i play games and i watch movies and no way would i see a movie that had that as its main story.
I'm a bad guy to not be about that stuff though right lol.

Your views don't Trump someone else's existence, it's not that you aren't important it's that your views aren't more important than other people's reality. People are gay, we are born this way and you having a "view" that's against it really doesn't make any sense and honestly that view shouldn't be pandered to. It's not like having an opinion on US policy with Russia, there is no other direction that can be taken, people are gay and even if you don't accept that it's going to happen, you can't vote to make it go away, you can't pray it away and you can't scare it away. it always has been a part of life and always will be.

As far as this game, it's a story driven game and part of the story is that Ellie is a lesbian so of course if she has an intimate scene it's going to be with another girl. I'd be shocked if that girl doesn't get killed at some point and that's likely going to fuel some kind of revenge angle. To get the full impact of that kind of story you shouldn't skip the scenes that set up why she was important to Ellie. Maybe they will allow you to skip the cinematic but if they do it won't be because it's two girls kissing, that kind of thing shouldn't even be an issue in this day and age.
 
Of course they do but i respect them and they respect me.

Marriage and adoption are the issues i don't bend with when talking to them so its never mentioned as they are very sensitive and i don't want to hurt them.

They are very sensitive people in general or they are sensitive because they are gay? I would think it would hurt you too if someone you cared about thought you shouldn't have the same rights that they do, that's basically you telling them that you think you are better than they are.
 
Has anyone seen a documentary about some clan leader from the south who’s best friend is Latin/Hispanic, and his mechanic? Even with so much hate that he spews he has a genuine love and respect for that guy that they have meals together...anyways I don’t know where I’m going with that lol

It's fun to imagine the level of outrage if ND actually did accommodate Val's sensitivity and give players a "no h0mo" option* where they could avoid seeing two girls kissing.

*lol, h0mo is censored.

Makes one wonder what the reaction woulda been had that scene only been brought to light as gamers/media played it.
 
You got to love the old "I have black friends" defense

I just don't know how anyone can really be a true friend to someone who they feel is wrong for being who they are. Don't get me wrong being gay doesn't define any of us but it is a part of who we are and I have a hard time thinking I could ever truly consider someone a real friend if I knew deep down they didn't really respect me. I would think those are just people I know but they aren't the type of people that I could count on if something was going down and I'm likely not the person they are going to call if they need something.

That being said it's also nice to see so much progress being made, seeing the differences from where we are now vs when I was in high school back in the late 80's early 90's is very encouraging.
 
As long as Uncharted 5 doesn't feature a transsexual Nathan Drake, I'm good... Then it would smack of political agenda. Now it just seems like a part of ND's valuing of diversity, which is something Druckman has talked a lot about. I'm fine with that. I dislike SJW/feminist/leftist identity politics, but that's not what this seems like to me.

How would have gamers reacted if Joel was the gay one, rather than Ellie? I'm guessing the reaction would be very different. Most people find two women kissing to be interesting, not objectionable. But most gamers are guys, and I suspect a lot of them would have issues if the primary male protagonist was gay.

Val, I don't think you need to worry about explaining the reasons for your feelings, if that's what you want to do. You've made a couple of comments to the effect that if you were to go into detail, you'd get banned. Afaik, we've never banned anyone for politically incorrect opinions. This isn't GAF or Era, where you're going to be banned because you are "rationalizing hate speech" or whatever SJW terminology they are using this week. I think everyone knows where your position is coming from anyhow (your religious beliefs). You can expect ridicule, criticism, and push-back, but I don't think you need to worry about banning, unless you start trolling or making personal attacks on individual members.
 
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As long as Uncharted 5 doesn't feature a transsexual Nathan Drake, trying on dresses and wigs, I'm good.

How would have gamers reacted if Joel was the gay one, rather than Ellie? I'm guessing the reaction would be very different. Most people find two women kissing to be interesting, not objectionable. But most gamers are guys, and I suspect a lot of them would have issues if the primary male protagonist was gay.


Wait Nathan was born a woman or Nathan becoming Nadaline? I kid and I don’t care, unless then and or if who they are cause no body or worldly harm.

But I’ve wondered that second point myself. Is the world more accepting or comfortable with two women than two men, especially in media? NBC gave us Will and Grace but even then Will felt like the Rick as Grace was to Lucy in said show. I remember there was some show on ABC where the family were two mothers and the children were adopted, “modern family” was it called? I honestly don’t know, haven’t watched tv for almost a decade.
 
As long as Uncharted 5 doesn't feature a transsexual Nathan Drake, I'm good... Then it would smack of political agenda. Now it just seems like a part of ND's valuing of diversity, which is something Druckman has talked a lot about. I'm fine with that. I dislike SJW/feminist/leftist identity politics, but that's not what this seems like to me.

How would have gamers reacted if Joel was the gay one, rather than Ellie? I'm guessing the reaction would be very different. Most people find two women kissing to be interesting, not objectionable. But most gamers are guys, and I suspect a lot of them would have issues if the primary male protagonist was gay.

Val, I don't think you need to worry about explaining the reasons for your feelings, if that's what you want to do. You've made a couple of comments to the effect that if you were to go into detail, you'd get banned. Afaik, we've never banned anyone for politically incorrect opinions. This isn't GAF or Era, where you're going to be banned because you are "rationalizing hate speech" or whatever SJW terminology they are using this week. I think everyone knows where your position is coming from anyhow (your religious beliefs). You can expect ridicule, criticism, and push-back, but I don't think you need to worry about banning, unless you start trolling or making personal attacks on individual members.

Well old GAF. New GAF is a different animal.

Wait Nathan was born a woman or Nathan becoming Nadaline? I kid and I don’t care, unless then and or if who they are cause no body or worldly harm.

But I’ve wondered that second point myself. Is the world more accepting or comfortable with two women than two men, especially in media? NBC gave us Will and Grace but even then Will felt like the Rick as Grace was to Lucy in said show. I remember there was some show on ABC where the family were two mothers and the children were adopted, “modern family” was it called? I honestly don’t know, haven’t watched tv for almost a decade.

I don't think its an accepting or not thing I think its just the thinking is more along on the lines of "I like seeing women kiss because its hot" kind of thing.

Its two guys on Modern Family though
 
Well old GAF. New GAF is a different animal.

I'm not so sure about that. I've seen a number of instances of people being banned for expressing (even in moderate ways) views that do not align with the politically correct one.

Wait Nathan was born a woman or Nathan becoming Nadaline? I kid and I don’t care, unless then and or if who they are cause no body or worldly harm.

But I’ve wondered that second point myself. Is the world more accepting or comfortable with two women than two men, especially in media? NBC gave us Will and Grace but even then Will felt like the Rick as Grace was to Lucy in said show. I remember there was some show on ABC where the family were two mothers and the children were adopted, “modern family” was it called? I honestly don’t know, haven’t watched tv for almost a decade.

I haven't watched TV in years, either, but my sense is that the culture is comfortable with seeing gay men together as partners, but it's different when they start making out. Most of the time I see men kissing on TV, it's done for the sake of humor. It's rarely played straight, so to speak. I haven't done a tally, but I'll bet women kissing is shown far more often than men kissing (not as a joke).
 
I'm not so sure about that. I've seen a number of instances of people being banned for expressing (even in moderate ways) views that do not align with the politically correct one.



I haven't watched TV in years, either, but my sense is that the culture is comfortable with seeing gay men together as partners, but it's different when they start making out. Most of the time I see men kissing on TV, it's done for the sake of humor. It's rarely played straight, so to speak. I haven't done a tally, but I'll bet women kissing is shown far more often than men kissing (not as a joke).

Well they probably ban people at the drop of a hat still but the general view of political or social views has taken a 180 for sure over there from what I have seen. I suspect a video like this one would be viewed very differently on GAF vs Resetera but neither in a fair manner
 
I'm not so sure about that. I've seen a number of instances of people being banned for expressing (even in moderate ways) views that do not align with the politically correct one.



I haven't watched TV in years, either, but my sense is that the culture is comfortable with seeing gay men together as partners, but it's different when they start making out. Most of the time I see men kissing on TV, it's done for the sake of humor. It's rarely played straight, so to speak. I haven't done a tally, but I'll bet women kissing is shown far more often than men kissing (not as a joke).

I still remember Melrose Place having to cut away when their gay character was going to kiss a guy and how Roseanne had to fight just to get ABC to air the episode where she was kissed by a woman, hell she had to threaten to buy time on HBO and air the episode there lol.

You are right though as far as lesbian kisses being less controversial than two men kissing, still things have improved all around and I'm grateful for that :)
 
Wait Nathan was born a woman or Nathan becoming Nadaline?

Uncharted 5: Search for the Golden Vagina. Nate confides in Sully that he's always felt like a woman trapped in a man's body. Sully chews his cigar and says, "Whatever floats your boat, kid." Sully is okay with it, except that Nate's high heels make rock climbing awkward. Also, the view is rough when Nate is above him, wearing a mini-skirt.

That's all I've got so far.
 
Uncharted 5: Search for the Golden Vagina. Nate confides in Sully that he's always felt like a woman trapped in a man's body. Sully chews his cigar and says, "Whatever floats your boat, kid." Sully is okay with it, except that Nate's high heels make rock climbing awkward. Also, the view is rough when Nate is above him, wearing a mini-skirt.

That's all I've got so far.


Rock climbing in heels could be a mini game in itself, like pulling the triggers in the og nba 2k on Dreamcast, or would that be too qte like?
 
I always wonder if those people who think that being gay is a choice, have gay tendencies themselves. I don't know how else to explain that. You are what you are. How can you judge someone else's thoughts and feelings unless you also have those feelings? But saying that it's a choice, are you saying that you also have that interest or feeling but suppress it? This is something that I've always wondered.

Also, it's pretty convenient that a good book written by men condemns a lifestyle that historically doesn't promote more devotees (children). You've got to grow the membership!

I'm an agnostic, which some egotistical evangelicals like to equate to being an atheist. That's BS of the highest order. I also simply refuse to believe that a creator of life would ever put hatred in front of love. Love is everything, and all that we will ever carry forth. To go against love, is simply sacrilege.
 
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The inclusion thing may be an agenda and yeah since we aren't used to seeing it some people are going to react but it's just sad that some react the way they do. I agree the people who act like they are better than everyone else for loving it are pretty obnoxious as well, people should just calm down on it all around and accept that games are art and someone actually created these characters and this is how they want the story to go. The creator wanted his character to be gay, there are gay people in the world so it shouldn't be a shock to see one in a game every once in a while.
No one likes agenda. That's the main deal, honestly. It feels forced in our faces because it wasn't something so intimately focused on in games in general. Not talking about the relationship, but the close up, lingering makeout shot. That's a lot of effort for something that can be conveyed more simply. It was definitely a poke.

It was also a poke in a game (now series) drenched in bleak survival. Sexual relationships were not any kind of focus. Joel and Tess were obviously a pair, but it was hard and out of necessity and some loose desire not be alone. That was their tone.

I'm sure it's to juxtapose the happy vs the bleak, and I expect she will die so Ellie can go all revenge-y (plus side being Joel is still around).

My main concern is that the story draw for me from the first game was the dynamic between Joel and Ellie. Joel's redemption ( my favorite kind of story) and the hope for the future.

This set up is less interesting (so far) to me. I think Naughty Dog said it's a revenge story, and I'm not sure I like that. You gotta balance that bleak future otherwise it's a negative slog. The first game's violence was in a defensive context (aside from the beginning to show how terrible Joel and tess had become). Revenge is a different animal.

All that said, we really don't know much about how the story will play out, but I wonder if, if Ellie's orientation is a pivotal plot device, they will address any conflict over the only person who is immune to the virus not reproducing. Especially given that they couldn't figure out how to make a vaccine in the first game. That would be an interesting angle.
 
No one likes agenda. That's the main deal, honestly. It feels forced in our faces because it wasn't something so intimately focused on in games in general. Not talking about the relationship, but the close up, lingering makeout shot. That's a lot of effort for something that can be conveyed more simply. It was definitely a poke.

It was also a poke in a game (now series) drenched in bleak survival. Sexual relationships were not any kind of focus. Joel and Tess were obviously a pair, but it was hard and out of necessity and some loose desire not be alone. That was their tone.

I'm sure it's to juxtapose the happy vs the bleak, and I expect she will die so Ellie can go all revenge-y (plus side being Joel is still around).

My main concern is that the story draw for me from the first game was the dynamic between Joel and Ellie. Joel's redemption ( my favorite kind of story) and the hope for the future.

This set up is less interesting (so far) to me. I think Naughty Dog said it's a revenge story, and I'm not sure I like that. You gotta balance that bleak future otherwise it's a negative slog. The first game's violence was in a defensive context (aside from the beginning to show how terrible Joel and tess had become). Revenge is a different animal.

All that said, we really don't know much about how the story will play out, but I wonder if, if Ellie's orientation is a pivotal plot device, they will address any conflict over the only person who is immune to the virus not reproducing. Especially given that they couldn't figure out how to make a vaccine in the first game. That would be an interesting angle.

I always thought they should go with totally new characters. The first game ended in a way that it doesn't need to be followed up. Joel's story in particular felt complete. If it is a revenge story it wouldn't surprise me if he is the one who dies.
 
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