Unless I missed it, where are developers talking/praising XSX?

MosquitoSmasher

MosquitoSmasher

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Sep 13, 2013
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So we've known about XSX since last December, we didn't have the specs then yet. Surely though some developers could have posted a few comments on it. But let's say that's too early, a few months ago we got the full specs. Still barely anything from developers, unless I missed it.

Let's go back to 2013 after Sony revealed the PS4 controller and specs for the system. Devs were full of praise and many articles talking about how gamer centric this system was, less so about Xbox One. MS now brings a absolute powerhouse and according to Digital Foundry it's very impressive and DF's own called Dictator on ResetEra actually prefers its architecture too.

Now today

www.resetera.com

Gamesbeat: PS5 has a better architecture than any console in history, according to devs, a joy to work with.

Thought this was an interesting tidbit from Jeff Grubb's article about the upcoming PS5 event and worth discussing separately. What we know about the PS5 so far is what’s inside the system and a few other details. Like Xbox Series X, PS5 features AMD hardware. This includes a Zen 3 CPU and a...
www.resetera.com www.resetera.com

PS5 has better architecture than any console in history, it's a joy to work with. Now they obviously aren't comparing it to XSX because XSX is not what you'd file under history of consoles. But f*** man, why so little talk about XSX at all?

I don't remember, but was there praise for Xbox One X from devs after its reveal?
 
Maybe McMasters can write an article praising development for Series X? Seems like anyone can do it and people eat it up any news.
 
MosquitoSmasher said:
So we've known about XSX since last December, we didn't have the specs then yet. Surely though some developers could have posted a few comments on it. But let's say that's too early, a few months ago we got the full specs. Still barely anything from developers, unless I missed it.

Let's go back to 2013 after Sony revealed the PS4 controller and specs for the system. Devs were full of praise and many articles talking about how gamer centric this system was, less so about Xbox One. MS now brings a absolute powerhouse and according to Digital Foundry it's very impressive and DF's own called Dictator on ResetEra actually prefers its architecture too.

Now today

www.resetera.com

Gamesbeat: PS5 has a better architecture than any console in history, according to devs, a joy to work with.

Thought this was an interesting tidbit from Jeff Grubb's article about the upcoming PS5 event and worth discussing separately. What we know about the PS5 so far is what’s inside the system and a few other details. Like Xbox Series X, PS5 features AMD hardware. This includes a Zen 3 CPU and a...
www.resetera.com www.resetera.com

PS5 has better architecture than any console in history, it's a joy to work with. Now they obviously aren't comparing it to XSX because XSX is not what you'd file under history of consoles. But f*** man, why so little talk about XSX at all?

I don't remember, but was there praise for Xbox One X from devs after its reveal?
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I wouldn't take ResetEra as gospel. I post there often and the entire site leans heavily towards PS. Also devs have been praising the XSX as well.
 
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Devs have praised both. Playstation more often at this point. Talking to someone who develops games, praise from a dev is often going to be related to ease of development if both consoles are "powerful enough". Series X is more capable but it also takes more work to leverage that capability. From what I understand, the extra CUs aren't just free power. It takes more time and effort to use the full width of the GPU. Also other features that Series X has don't come free. If devs don't spend more time and resources developing for Series X, they won't get more out of it. Even Paul from Red Gaming said he's hearing from more and more devs Playstation is the easier console to dev for. Has nothing to do with capabilities. Everything to do with making life easier on devs.

Edit: correction. It was Paul from Red Gaming Tech who said devs have told him PS5 is easier to develop for. Not John. Got the 2 mixed up because both were on my buddies podcast.
 
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The Living Tribunal said:
I wouldn't take ResetEra as gospel. I post there often and the entire site leans heavily towards PS. Also devs have been praising the XSX as well.
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That is very true. I roam and post mostly in the Xbox thread, I find that there always cool posts there and just cool folks. But yesterday after Sony made the official announcement I saw the article about devs immediately and that's just something that stood out to me. That being said, I now see that I've missed those articles about XSX, I'll check them out.

By the way, are you Omnipotent on Era? I know you mostly for your awesome posts about Sekiro and of course Elden Ring. :)

As for devs praising PS5, when Mark Cerny held his speech about PS5 I saw several tweets by Jason Schreier stating that he had heard from devs that they prefer PS5, that it's the more "revolutionary" system. Jason is a reputable source. But then I was told by people in the Xbox thread that Jason is very big on Sony and not at all on MS.

Ah well, I'll go read the articles now.
 
OneBadMutha said:
Devs have praised both. Playstation more often at this point. Talking to someone who develops games, praise from a dev is often going to be related to ease of development if both consoles are "powerful enough". Series X is more capable but it also takes more work to leverage that capability. From what I understand, the extra CUs aren't just free power. It takes more time and effort to use the full width of the GPU. Also other features that Series X has don't come free. If devs don't spend more time and resources developing for Series X, they won't get more out of it. Even John Linneman from DF, who's praised Series X capabilities more, said he's hearing from more and more devs Playstation is the easier console to dev for. Has nothing to do with capabilities. Everything to do with making life easier on devs.
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I see, yeah it definitely makes sense that devs would favor it then. Game development isn't a cakewalk as it is. I just hope that in terms of multiplatform titles Xbox won't get the shorter end of the stick. There is no reason for XSX versions to be inferior, in fact they should be a little superior in terms of framerate and resolution. But if devs will go the extra mile for that.....
 
MosquitoSmasher said:
That is very true. I roam and post mostly in the Xbox thread, I find that there always cool posts there and just cool folks. But yesterday after Sony made the official announcement I saw the article about devs immediately and that's just something that stood out to me. That being said, I now see that I've missed those articles about XSX, I'll check them out.

By the way, are you Omnipotent on Era? I know you mostly for your awesome posts about Sekiro and of course Elden Ring. :)

As for devs praising PS5, when Mark Cerny held his speech about PS5 I saw several tweets by Jason Schreier stating that he had heard from devs that they prefer PS5, that it's the more "revolutionary" system. Jason is a reputable source. But then I was told by people in the Xbox thread that Jason is very big on Sony and not at all on MS.

Ah well, I'll go read the articles now.
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Does it even matter. All this early talk just feeds into console-wars. Rarely adds anything worthy to the conversation...take those articles, one is from the dev of an xbox exclusive game, and the other just generric ray tracing praise from indie devs. On the PS5 side is mostly vague buzzwords like "big deal" or "will change how worlds are built. "

At the end of the day it will just be like it nearrly always is. Third parties will be pretty much the same across both consoles, and only exclusives will fully leverage the power/features
 
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menace-uk- said:
Does it even matter. All this early talk just feeds into console-wars. Rarely adds anything worthy to the conversation...take those articles, one is from the dev of an xbox exclusive game, and the other just generric ray tracing praise from indie devs. On the PS5 side is mostly vague buzzwords like "big deal" or "will change how worlds are built. "

At the end of the day it will just be like it nearrly always is. Third parties will be pretty much the same across both consoles, and only exclusives will fully leverage the power/features
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You got a point there. The SSD of PS5 is apparently on another level, but will third party devs bother with that when they have to think of PC and Xbox SSD as well?

I hear you on vague praise, that's true. But Jason is a different story, that guy is legit and he said he has heard it from multiple devs. But it doesn't matter all that much for us gamers which system is the more easier to develop for.
 
1st parties will leverage the strengths of the systems. 3rd parties will largely make the same games. I think there's a chance that some 3rd party games will show variances like better ray tracing down the road as they get more comfortable with the tools and scale that stuff up more frequently on the PC. The dark horse in all of this is DX12U. I've heard surprisingly good impressions on it. No details. Just that devs are happy with it. I think they're still under NDA regarding some aspects. If DX12U is adopted for cross platform PC development, that may lead to Xbox Series X being leveraged a bit better eventually. Expectations are tempered for the first year or 2.
 
MosquitoSmasher said:
You got a point there. The SSD of PS5 is apparently on another level, but will third party devs bother with that when they have to think of PC and Xbox SSD as well?

I hear you on vague praise, that's true. But Jason is a different story, that guy is legit and he said he has heard it from multiple devs. But it doesn't matter all that much for us gamers which system is the more easier to develop for.
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I don't know what you read, but just saying "easier to dev on" doesn't mean much. Could be a little or alot, but in the end the result will be like I said, third parties will be pretty much the same regardless. So, legit or not, does it really matter.

Maybe when we start getting good looks at games in action some of this stuff will makes sense.
 
OneBadMutha said:
1st parties will leverage the strengths of the systems. 3rd parties will largely make the same games. I think there's a chance that some 3rd party games will show variances like better ray tracing down the road as they get more comfortable with the tools and scale that stuff up more frequently on the PC. The dark horse in all of this is DX12U. I've heard surprisingly good impressions on it. No details. Just that devs are happy with it. I think they're still under NDA regarding some aspects. If DX12U is adopted for cross platform PC development, that may lead to Xbox Series X being leveraged a bit better eventually. Expectations are tempered for the first year or 2.
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A bit better.

Problem is people get hung up comparisons. It is easy to notice differences with a side by side and a narrator telling you them. You never really notice them when playing, cause, well, you're too busy playing.
 
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menace-uk- said:
A bit better.

Problem is people get hung up comparisons. It is easy to notice differences with a side by side and a narrator telling you them. You never really notice them when playing, cause, well, you're too busy playing.
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For the most part I agree. Ray tracing is a new variable though. We may not notice...but there's a chance we will. Also stable frames as games get more demanding. I think Series X will be pushing narratives of ray tracing and possibly better frame rates.

As for checkerboard 4K vs true 4K or extra blades of grass...most people don't give a f***.
 
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OneBadMutha said:
For the most part I agree. Ray tracing is a new variable though. We may not notice...but there's a chance we will. Also stable frames as games get more demanding. I think Series X will be pushing narratives of ray tracing and possibly better frame rates.

As for checkerboard 4K vs true 4K or extra blades of grass...most people don't give a f***.
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New variable, sure. No doubt XSX has the upper hand here, but the odds of there being a significan't difference in third party games, nah. Maybe with exclusives.

They are seemingly already pushing that narrative.
 
menace-uk- said:
He has also said the game has none of the XSX special features.
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Every dev is going to praise the consoles they are contracted to develop for. So I am not surprised to see both consoles getting generic praise.
 
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Hedon said:
Every dev is going to praise the consoles they are contracted to develop for. So I am not surprised to see both consoles getting generic praise.
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Technically they are deving for multi platforms, but the XSX version seems like a generic port taking advantage of free upgrades.

Just wanna see games. So far the most impressive thing seen is a third party game engine tech demo. Don't wannha see enhancments. Wanna see actual next gen games.
 
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menace-uk- said:
Technically they are deving for multi platforms, but the XSX version seems like a generic port taking advantage of free upgrades.

Just wanna see games. So far the most impressive thing seen is a third party game engine tech demo. Don't wannha see enhancments. Wanna see actual next gen games.
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Some are multi plat, and some are not. Some seem to have a marketing agreement for the multiplat games as well. I personally have been impressed with the in-engine showing of Hellblade 2 more than anything shown so far.

I hope Turn 10 has an all new engine for the next FM.
 
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For more context, Paul also said that it depends on the type of game you're making. He joked about Indie devs making claims as to which console was easier to develop for when their entire game fits into the cache. You come up with an entire new set of problems to overcome when you're making AAA games.

menace-uk- said:
New variable, sure. No doubt XSX has the upper hand here, but the odds of there being a significan't difference in third party games, nah. Maybe with exclusives.

They are seemingly already pushing that narrative.
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Yeah I don't know what to predict there. I've said consistently that tools are the most important aspect of these consoles. If Microsoft wants 3rd parties to leverage their capabilities more, they'll need to provide tools that make that easy to do. I'm not expecting 3rd party games to show better on Series X early on unless Microsoft has tools in devs hands that they're leveraging now that nobody outside of the NDAs knows about.

The Dark Horse in all of this is DX12U. Devs used DX10 which gave the 360s cross-plats an advantage. Devs didn't like DX compared to the competition last cycle. If Xbox Series X development can be more closely tied to PC development, it will help the performance of 3rd party games regardless of which is technically easier to develop for.
 
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OneBadMutha said:
For more context, Paul also said that it depends on the type of game you're making. He joked about Indie devs making claims as to which console was easier to develop for when their entire game fits into the cache. You come up with an entire new set of problems to overcome when you're making AAA games.



Yeah I don't know what to predict there. I've said consistently that tools are the most important aspect of these consoles. If Microsoft wants 3rd parties to leverage their capabilities more, they'll need to provide tools that make that easy to do. I'm not expecting 3rd party games to show better on Series X early on unless Microsoft has tools in devs hands that they're leveraging now that nobody outside of the NDAs knows about.

The Dark Horse in all of this is DX12U. Devs used DX10 which gave the 360s cross-plats an advantage. Devs didn't like DX compared to the competition last cycle. If Xbox Series X development can be more closely tied to PC development, it will help the performance of 3rd party games regardless of which is technically easier to develop for.
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We will see.

I'm holding firm on the 'any differences will be small' view.
 
There's a new tweet about it.



Maybe MS hasn't sent dev kits to developers as much as Sony has? Or maybe the PS5 truly for some reason is that special, I am not a tech head all that much but aren't these systems basically the same? Except one has better CPU and GPU specs and the other a better SSD?
 
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Swede said:
Because it's more powerful than PS5 and now fans of playstation are insecure so they dig up opinions that collaborate their own.
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I agree. It's kinda like what's more popular will be magnified. You could have the same amount of praise, but one will be displayed more prominently because of bias.

Also a lot of the PSV praise interpreted as being better aren't actually tweeted as comparisons. I'm also seeing quotes made by devs just reaction to info and not even having dev kits themselves. Console warriors grab that stuff, share it, then run with the distorted interpretation. Then others run with that.

I also think Sony may have had dev kits out longer.
 
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Frozpot said:
I agree. It's kinda like what's more popular will be magnified. You could have the same amount of praise, but one will be displayed more prominently because of bias.

Also a lot of the PSV praise interpreted as being better aren't actually tweeted as comparisons. I'm also seeing quotes made by devs just reaction to info and not even having dev kits themselves. Console warriors grab that stuff, share it, then run with the distorted interpretation. Then others run with that.

I also think Sony may have had dev kits out longer.
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I think a lot of what you say may be true. The second hand reporting of these comments is often interpreting things that aren't said.

One thing that seems fairly consistent is how happy devs are with the freeing of bottlenecks as a result of better IO. They may be under NDA on the Xbox side of the equation when it comes to talking about Velocity considering not one has gone into any detail about BC Pack. Also a chance its not as straight forward as just using Kracken and the PS5s SSD but we'll have to wait and see.
 
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