*updated* complete trancript-Microsoft to unlock reserved GPU performance for Xbox One development

polishwonder said:
Astro!! I enjoy reading your impute on technical subjects!! I have a question and would appreciate a honest answer! What do you think?( If any) are going to be real world differences in multplat games between the systems and who has the advantage and why?? Sorry If its much but Im very interested in the subject and love Tech!!
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I expect both to be on par with one another. X1 is a much more sophisticated design from an engineering pov imho and it seems to take some innovative approaches to several key areas whereas PS4 is much more standard, off the shelf design with tweaks for compute down the road. I don't expect multiplats to differ much at all. Slightly different AA methods, slightly different native resolutions (which won't be noticed at all due to scalers in X1) and that's about it in my view. There are wildcards down the road (cloud, Kinect, GPGPU, virtual assets), but we will have to see where devs move to on those issues.

I plan on doing a more thorough comparison of the two at some point for another forumer here who asked, but I want to wait until I see what the additional DF articles have to say this coming weekend first.
 
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astrograd said:
I expect both to be on par with one another. X1 is a much more sophisticated design from an engineering pov imho and it seems to take some innovative approaches to several key areas whereas PS4 is much more standard, off the shelf design with tweaks for compute down the road. I don't expect multiplats to differ much at all. Slightly different AA methods, slightly different native resolutions (which won't be noticed at all due to scalers in X1) and that's about it in my view. There are wildcards down the road (cloud, Kinect, GPGPU, virtual assets), but we will have to see where devs move to on those issues.

I plan on doing a more thorough comparison of the two at some point for another forumer here who asked, but I want to wait until I see what the additional DF articles have to say this coming weekend first.
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thank you!! Im looking forward to the comparison
 
astrograd said:
Correct. Same goes for PS4 btw, except there's no indication devs will get it back. It's something that gets swept under the rug in these vs discussions as both consoles reserve essentially the same resources for OS so it doesn't affect the comparisons. With this information, the assumption it wouldn't affect comparisons might no longer be valid.
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There's no indication PS4 has a GPU reservation, nor does it have snap or hdmi input. It does likely reserve 2 CPU cores and 2-3GB RAM.
 
consolewarz said:
There's no indication PS4 has a GPU reservation, nor does it have snap or hdmi input. It does likely reserve 2 CPU cores and 2-3GB RAM.
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It doesn't need snap or an HDMI input to have a GPU reservation. You've been reading GAF haven't you? *sigh*

For reference, both PS3 and 360 each had ~10% GPU reservation.
 
astrograd said:
Both consoles have GPU reserves for the OS. Both have similar RAM reserves and the same CPU reserves, so both most likely had the same GPU reserves as well. MS is just (apparently) letting some of that be accessible to devs whereas Sony isn't. So it's a boon for X1 relative to PS4 in terms of GPU utilization.
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PS4 doesn't need GPU reservation for its OS whereas X1 need it for Application snaps
 
consolewarz said:
There's no indication PS4 has a GPU reservation, nor does it have snap or hdmi input. It does likely reserve 2 CPU cores and 2-3GB RAM.
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I'm not a tech expert or anything, but I would imagine something has to render the GUI related to the OS, apps, etc.
 
Zcythe said:
I'm not a tech expert or anything, but I would imagine something has to render GUI related to the OS, apps, etc.
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Not during games...
Only the X1 need this reservation to instantly snap between a game and an app
 
Sweep14 said:
Not during games...
Only the X1 need this reservation to instantly snap between a game and an app
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If you want the OS to be there ready to go quickly you need those GPU cycles. Nothing to do with snapping an app. Again, PS3 and 360 both did this as well.
 
astrograd said:
If you want the OS to be there ready to go quickly you need those GPU cycles. Nothing to do with snapping an app. Again, PS3 and 360 both did this as well.
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yeah, what Astro is saying is correct. To think that there is NOT a reservation is crazy. Stuttering UI would be the result.

Edit: stuttering or a delay.
 
Sweep14 said:
Link...?
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It was discussed on B3d back in February I think. The discussion included a guy who worked on 360's design (as well as X1's) and a Sony dev who confirmed what I said about the PS3 (think he also said same for PS4 but can't recall specific figures). Ya don't have to believe me. I'm not gonna dig through thousands of posts from 8 months ago to find it. :)
 
GIDEONkjv said:
Yeah.. They have the PS4 at 56% faster,better,cooler...etc..etc..etc! They really are making themselves look foolish.


Well.. You see, this type of thinking is the problem in the first place. You cannot look at ONE component of a system and give a generalized statement that the system is better OVERALL because one component seems to be better than the other. You have to look at the system OVERALL and how it all works together WITH the software.. Most importantly.. You have to see how it handles games!! Only then, can you really get a general idea of how the system will perform.
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The forum truly is horrible. It may be good for up to date news, but the mentality there hurts my brains and i rather just read that same news slightly later on other sites or forums, so that i can just stay away from there. Some people that i know are dead set on it that multiplatform games will be substantially better on PS4 right from the get go. Gonna be funny to see them all going :O when several Multi-p titles come out this November.
 
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Misterxmedia's insider called and said to keep digging, and we have all the pieces.

Kidding.

But....

"We will probably see a lot of sub-1080p games (with hardware upscale), but this is probably because there is not enough time to learn the GPU when the development environment, and sometimes clock speeds, are changing underneath you," our source said, referring to the Xbox One's evolving "mono driver" and last-minute hardware tweaks.
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"Evolving "mono driver""? "Last munite hardware tweaks"? This DOES sound like insider speak, IMO. He said devs were just now getting access to a stereo driver. Why did they put it in quotes, or even say it at all?
 
Sweep14 said:
PS4 doesn't need GPU reservation for its OS whereas X1 need it for Application snaps
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Unless I'm mistaken, PS4 does do similar "snapping" with certain apps. Haven't they showed someone playing KZ:SF online and checking a Facebook feed or responding to a Facebook message "snapped"?

Or was that just watching a video feed of someone playing KZ?
 
BunzHoles said:
Unless I'm mistaken, PS4 does do similar "snapping" with certain apps. Haven't they showed someone playing KZ:SF online and checking a Facebook feed or responding to a Facebook message "snapped"?

Or was that just watching a video feed of someone playing KZ?
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i think you are right.. while it might not snap the same manner as XB1 does, it certainly DOES let you hop out briefly to upload your game captures, social media stuff, or send messages.
 
MosquitoSmasher said:
The forum truly is horrible. It may be good for up to date news, but the mentality there hurts my brains and i rather just read that same news slightly later on other sites or forums, so that i can just stay away from there. Some people that i know are dead set on it that multiplatform games will be substantially better on PS4 right from the get go. Gonna be funny to see them all going :O when several Multi-p titles come out this November.
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No...you will hear excuses such as....

"The devs were PAID by Microsoft to make the game look the same on both consoles"

"The Xbox 1 is holding the PS4 back"

oh...and my personal favorite gem....

"Lazy devs!"

When a multiplatform game comes out and LOOKS better on the Xbox1 then all hell will break loose.
 
Ascalaphus said:
"Lazy devs!"
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If a game like Destiny does not take advantage of the ability to snap apps in the x1, and give me a news feed notifying me of in game events, and news, with its large persistent world, I will be the first to cry it.
 
astrograd said:
Both consoles have GPU reserves for the OS. Both have similar RAM reserves and the same CPU reserves, so both most likely had the same GPU reserves as well. MS is just (apparently) letting some of that be accessible to devs whereas Sony isn't. So it's a boon for X1 relative to PS4 in terms of GPU utilization.
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How sure of that are you? isn't it more than likely just the case that things will be freed up as time goes on for both machines? hasn't that kind of been discussed by others already? I've seen many people mention in the past that these limitations are likely to be scaled back a bit once they get settled on OS features etc long term.
 
ZombiesRUCrazy said:
another sony shill, ban him!
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OR...correct their misunderstandings. :)



Ascalaphus, you won't see as much of the lazy devs arguments initially. If there's an opportunity to blame it squarely on MS as some sort of sinister, greedy, money grabbing conspiracy the Sony fans will lurch in that direction first and foremost. It'll take a bit before ppl let go of that ad 'graduate' to merely convincing themselves that the devs are lazy. ;)
 
JinCA said:
How sure of that are you? isn't it more than likely just the case that things will be freed up as time goes on for both machines? hasn't that kind of been discussed by others already?
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Which part of my comment are you referring to specifically? I'm 100% certain PS4 reserves GPU cycles for its OS. I don't think Sony ever gave devs any cycles back on PS3 (nor did MS on 360 afaik). That's not a typical thing to do. Sony will take a bit to figure their RAM situation out I think. They are still kinda muddled there (4.5GB for devs, but 5GB if you work really closely with Sony for some dumb reason). I also wouldn't count on either console freeing up much on either RAM or CPU cores. They made those partitioning decisions with a purpose in mind.
 
BunzHoles said:
Unless I'm mistaken, PS4 does do similar "snapping" with certain apps. Haven't they showed someone playing KZ:SF online and checking a Facebook feed or responding to a Facebook message "snapped"?

Or was that just watching a video feed of someone playing KZ?
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It looks like it has message pop-ups and it does upload video, and download games in the background. However rather than running the game simultaneously with the executive, the game needs to be suspended to get back to the full dashboard.

I suspect/assume the ram reservation is for Sony to add full multi-tasking later on in the PS4 life cycle.
 
astrograd said:
Which part of my comment are you referring to specifically? I'm 100% certain PS4 reserves GPU cycles for its OS. I don't think Sony ever gave devs any cycles back on PS3 (nor did MS on 360 afaik). That's not a typical thing to do. Sony will take a bit to figure their RAM situation out I think. They are still kinda muddled there (4.5GB for devs, but 5GB if you work really closely with Sony for some dumb reason). I also wouldn't count on either console freeing up much on either RAM or CPU cores. They made those partitioning decisions with a purpose in mind.
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I was talking about the resources held back in general not just one area, I don't think it's accurate to say that Sony won't free up more resources (not just RAM) as time goes on just because they haven't made some big announcement about it yet. We'll see how it goes, I'm not saying they will or won't and I know you only said "apparently" but just because MS announced today that they are going to free up some GPU resources "in the future" that doesn't mean they are the only ones that will be doing that.
 
I'm glad the GPUs are looking more and more equal in power. I don't ever like it when two consoles have a large disparity in power because if one platform is the lead platform over the other, you either get a visually weaker game or a poor framerate version for one or the other.
 
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