Vladimir Putin takes his case directly to the American people

[rankandfile]

Fair enough, can't blame the US for spreading democracy. its way better for the old style of puppet regimes.
Back to Putin

Putin to do list:
1. Throw opponents in jail.
2. Provide lethal weapons to Assad.
3. Bomb Chechens.
4. Go to KGB alumni luncheon.
5. Throw p**** Riot in jail.
6. Discriminate against gays.
7. Bomb Georgians.
8. Criticize America.

yea, what a guy

oh wait, I forgot #9!!

9. steal Super Bowl ring

 

[jimmyD]

A lack of basic human rights? Christians and Jews being targeted and killed? The women being unable to get a basic education or even show their face? Israel continually being shelled every week by government supported terrorists?

Oh wait, you mean for us? Well, I guess not much. But we don't exactly appreciate it. And them just always being there as a potential threat to Israel and other U.S. interests tends to be annoying after a while.

Rock
america
hard place

 

[GeorgeSoros]

Fair enough, can't blame the US for spreading democracy. its way better for the old style of puppet regimes.
Back to Putin

Putin to do list:
1. Throw opponents in jail.
2. Provide lethal weapons to Assad.
3. Bomb Chechens.
4. Go to KGB alumni luncheon.
5. Throw p**** Riot in jail.
6. Discriminate against gays.
7. Bomb Georgians.
8. Criticize America.

yea, what a guy

He's the only one that can speak freely without consequence. The nations with "real democracy" are all interdependent with each other and can't speak the truth for fear that it will hurt them in some way. David Cameron tried to get his country involved, but he was stopped. People just don't want to be involved in any more American war efforts. We've cried wolf too many times before.

 

[rankandfile]

crying wolf? so now you're saying the Assad is not euthanizing his own countrymen?

 

[GeorgeSoros]

crying wolf? so now you're saying the Assad is not euthanizing his own countrymen?

No, I'm saying there weren't any nukes in Iraq.

 

[rankandfile]

John McCain delivers his op-ed to the Russian people.
go John go!

http://america.aljazeera.com/articles/2013/9/19/john-mccain-slamsrussiaasputininpravdaoped.html

Sen. John McCain has accused Russian President Vladimir Putin of corruption and political repression in anopinion article published Thursday in Russia’s Pravda newspaper, days after The New York Times featured an op-ed in which Putin criticized American exceptionalism.

“President Putin and his associates … punish dissent and imprison opponents. They rig your elections. They control your media,” McCain, a Republican from Arizona, wrote in the article titled “Russians deserve better than Putin.”

In an approach similar to Putin’s op-ed, which directly addressed the American people, McCain aimed his at ordinary Russians.

“I am not anti-Russian,” he wrote near the opening of the article. “I am pro-Russian, more pro-Russian than the regime that misrules you today.”

“President Putin … doesn’t believe in you,” McCain wrote. “He doesn't believe that human nature at liberty can rise above its weaknesses and build just, peaceful, prosperous societies. Or, at least, he doesn't believe Russians can. So he rules by using those weaknesses, by corruption, repression and violence. He rules for himself, not you.”

McCain also criticized Putin for siding with the government of Syrian President Bashar al-Assad in the 2 ½-year civil war that has killed more than 100,000 people.

In his Sept. 11 op-ed in The New York Times, Putin appealed to Americans to refrain from a threatened military attack on Syria to punish the Assad government for its alleged use of chemical weapons.

Putin also wrote that he disagreed with President Barack Obama’s case for American exceptionalism.

“It is extremely dangerous to encourage people to see themselves as exceptional, whatever the motivation,” the Russian leader wrote.

from the WP:

McCain was not the first U.S. lawmaker to respond to Putin. House Armed Services Committee Chairman Howard “Buck” McKeon, R-Calif., wrote in an editorial for the Moscow Times about the suppression of the Russian people and the disregard for basic human rights.

I wonder how that oppressive nutjob will respond.

 

[GeorgeSoros]

John McCain delivers his op-ed to the Russian people.
go John go!

http://america.aljazeera.com/articles/2013/9/19/john-mccain-slamsrussiaasputininpravdaoped.html

from the WP:

I wonder how that oppressive nutjob will respond.

In other words, he's trying to punish Putin for speaking out against America. That's why nobody speaks out against America. Bottom line, America is held to a higher standard. McCain knows this.

Lol, that reporter who broke the Snowden story had all his material confiscated. What happened to freedom of speech? We have freedom in this country as long as we are willing to look the other way. I'm WILLING so I'm free.

 

[rokkerkory]

Putin? lmao

 

[rankandfile]

In other words, he's trying to punish Putin for speaking out against America. That's why nobody speaks out against America. Bottom line, America is held to a higher standard. McCain knows this.

Lol, that reporter who broke the Snowden story had all his material confiscated. What happened to freedom of speech? We have freedom in this country as long as we are willing to look the other way. I'm WILLING so I'm free.

Punish him by hurting his feelings??? LOL. Is Vladimir a cry baby?


LOL, that was the reporter's friend. He was detained at Heathrow airport by British security! It didn't even happen in this country!


Clever how you left that information out. Or did just glance over the article? hhhhhmmmm

I dont know why you even have an ounce of respect for Putin and would come here to defend him. That would be shame if you really did. Are you trolling? Or are just arguing for the sake of arguing.

But by all means if you really like Putin , move to the Motherland and perhaps you can share a flat with Snowden!

 

[Soldier Gryphon]

Punish him by hurting his feelings??? LOL. Is Vladimir a cry baby?


LOL, that was the reporter's friend. He was detained at Heathrow airport by British security! It didn't even happen in this country!

Clever how you left that information out. Or did just glance over the article? hhhhhmmmm

I dont know why you even have an ounce of respect for Putin and would come here to defend him. That would be shame if you really did. Are you trolling? Or are just arguing for the sake of arguing.

But by all means if you really like Putin , move to the Motherland and perhaps you can share a flat with Snowden!

Gosh, it is not like he was waving a Russian flag and singing the Russian national anthem. Relax.

Nobody likes the NSA crap. And with all the Syria stuff, America is making itself look bad lately.

 

[rankandfile]

If Sylonious wants to talk in hyperbole and out right misrepresent information than I can at least have some fun!

 

[GeorgeSoros]

Punish him by hurting his feelings??? LOL. Is Vladimir a cry baby?


LOL, that was the reporter's friend. He was detained at Heathrow airport by British security! It didn't even happen in this country!

Clever how you left that information out. Or did just glance over the article? hhhhhmmmm

I dont know why you even have an ounce of respect for Putin and would come here to defend him. That would be shame if you really did. Are you trolling? Or are just arguing for the sake of arguing.

But by all means if you really like Putin , move to the Motherland and perhaps you can share a flat with Snowden!

What reason would Britain have for detaining a reporter who had contact with Snowden? America set that up.

Defending Putin isn't really the point. It's that there should be some sort of dissenting view from world leaders. There should be a serious discussion about it. Not all these western countries in lock step.

I just don't believe in this John Wayne style boxed thinking. Putin is the "bad guy" so nothing he says matters. A good idea can come from almost anywhere.

Gosh, it is not like he was waving a Russian flag and singing the Russian national anthem. Relax.

Nobody likes the NSA crap. And with all the Syria stuff, America is making itself look bad lately.

Lol, he's trying to figure out what conservative angle I have with this line of thought.

 

[rankandfile]

America set that up? Where is your proof? According to the article you quoted, British security only called US intelligence AFTER they had detained him and confiscated his encrypted files. He was detained and his files were confiscated under the Terrorism Act of 2000 which was passed by British Parliament. I am certain that there is an international person of interest hot sheet.
But your beef should be with the Brits.

And again, it wasn't the reporter (more misrepresentation) it was the reporter's friend. do you know personally that Miranda (the reporter's "live in companion") had direct contact with Snowden? conjecture and assumptions.

 

[GeorgeSoros]

America set that up? Where is your proof? According to the article you quoted, British security only called US intelligence AFTER they had detained him and confiscated his encrypted files. He was detained and his files were confiscated under the Terrorism Act of 2000 which was passed by British Parliament. I am certain that there is an international person of interest hot sheet.
But your beef should be with the Brits.

And again, it wasn't the reporter (more misrepresentation) it was the reporter's friend. do you know personally that Miranda (the reporter's "live in companion") had direct contact with Snowden? conjecture and assumptions.

Snowden didn't do anything against Britain. What other reason would they detain a reporter who had contact with him for 10 hours? Snowden nor the reporter committed or contributed to any terrorist acts. You should be horrified that they can apply the act so broadly.

David Miranda, partner of U.S. journalist Glenn Greenwald, was questioned for nine hours on Sunday at London's Heathrow Airport before being released without charge, prompting calls for an explanation of why anti-terrorism powers were used to detain the Brazilian citizen. - Source

He was working with the journalist. I guess they must have figured out that Greenwald gave all his important documents to Miranda in case he was stopped at the airport.

 

[Clubba]

I didn't read the article, and i'm not particularly well informed. But I am here to tell you guys the facts of the situation:

1. Putin is a corrupt thug who routinely violates civil liberties. He is using this event for internal political purposes.
2. Giving Putin a soapbox on civil liberties helps him cover and distract from up his own abuses.
3. Aligning yourself with corrupt dictators discredits your argument even if you're standing on some weird principle.

So, that pretty much ends the debate.

 

[GeorgeSoros]

I didn't read the article, and i'm not particularly well informed. But I am here to tell you guys the facts of the situation:

1. Putin is a corrupt thug who routinely violates civil liberties. He is using this event for internal political purposes.
2. Giving Putin a soapbox on civil liberties helps him cover and distract from up his own abuses.
3. Aligning yourself with corrupt dictators discredits your argument even if you're standing on some weird principle.

So, that pretty much ends the debate.

SMH, "Aligning myself with"? I'm saying it was a good idea to talk to the American people directly and let them know what's going on. Not that I'm suddenly a communist war lord dictator because I approved of Putin speaking out. Just an outrageous jump in logic.

He doesn't need an ulterior motive to say what the rest of the world is thinking. That America is going to attack another country without provocation.

The negative vote in Britain’s Parliament was a heavy blow to Prime Minister David Cameron, who had pledged his support to Mr. Obama and called on lawmakers to endorse Britain’s involvement in a brief operation to punish the government of President Bashar al-Assad for apparently launching a deadly chemical weapons attack last week that killed hundreds. - Source

The British government has ruled out a second parliamentary vote on participation in a military strike against the Syrian ruling regime. - Source

Let another country play world police for once. They want the US to do the dirty work and the rest of the western world can keep their hands clean. When this shit blows back on us Britain, France and the rest of the western world will be the first ones calling us Nazi's for getting involved again.

 

[Clubba]

SMH, "Aligning myself with"? I'm saying it was a good idea to talk to the American people directly and let them know what's going on. Not that I'm suddenly a communist war lord dictator because I approved of Putin speaking out. Just an outrageous jump in logic.

He doesn't need an ulterior motive to say what the rest of the world is thinking. That America is going to attack another country without provocation.

Yes, i'm saying you're a communist war lord dictator, you got me, good job. I thought I would get away with it.

In other words, he's trying to punish Putin for speaking out against America. That's why nobody speaks out against America. Bottom line, America is held to a higher standard. McCain knows this.

Who cares what his motivations are? If he's right about Putin, you should agree with him regardless of who he is. Either that or you're on both sides of the same argument.

 

[GeorgeSoros]

Yes, i'm saying you're a communist war lord dictator, you got me, good job. I thought I would get away with it.

You said I "aligned my self with" Putin. As if I supported his actions in Russia.

Who cares what his motivations are? If he's right about Putin, you should agree with him regardless of who he is.

You just proved my point. Putin is right to speak to the American people and give us a dissenting view regardless of who he is. What McCain said has been said millions of times before. We are saturated with info about the bad stuff going on in Russia, but no one ever speaks about our possible motives for attacking Syria.

The State Department has secretly financed Syrian political opposition groups and related projects, including a satellite TV channel that beams anti-government programming into the country, according to previously undisclosed diplomatic cables. - HuffingtonPost

A number of the groups and individuals directly involved in the revolts and reforms sweeping the region, including the April 6 Youth Movement in Egypt, the Bahrain Center for Human Rights and grass-roots activists like Entsar Qadhi, a youth leader in Yemen, received training and financing from groups like the International Republican Institute, the National Democratic Institute and Freedom House, a nonprofit human rights organization based in Washington, according to interviews in recent weeks and American diplomatic cables obtained by WikiLeaks.

The work of these groups often provoked tensions between the United States and many Middle Eastern leaders, who frequently complained that their leadership was being undermined, according to the cables. - NYtimes

So now we get to come in as the "heroes" after we were the ones who trained and financed the rebels in the first place.

 

[Clubba]

You said I "aligned my self with" Putin. As if I supported his actions in Russia.

Of course you aligned with him. Not on everything, but you're shooting other country's opinions down because they're 'lockstep' with American policy, as if they're not right because of who they are - while Putin as a dictator gets to be the 'independent' voice. You're applying your reasoning selectively at best.

You just proved my point. Putin is right to speak to the American people and give us a dissenting view regardless of who he is. What McCain said has been said millions of times before. We are saturated with info about the bad stuff going on in Russia, but no one ever speaks about our possible motives for attacking Syria.

You're using the least reliable guy in the room to make a point. Sure, on an intellectual level you can disassociate the message from the messenger (even knowing that his intentions are bad), but it's an awful rhetorical device. You can die on a hill saying you're technically correct, because even a broken clock is right two times a day, even though your argument just alienates people.

A better way to phrase the point is that while he's not starting a legitimate conversation, having an amoral foreign policy lets doofuses like him posture to support their own regimes. Any slip in our own conduct gives guys like him an excuse to be even worse, because he's looking for any opportunity possible to blur the lines further.