Would you have shot her?

Well would you?

  • Yes

    Votes: 8 42.1%
  • No

    Votes: 8 42.1%
  • Don't know

    Votes: 3 15.8%

  • Total voters
    19

David

Well-Known Member
Sep 11, 2013
2,686
317
1,830
Evansville, In
Man, 80, says he shot burglar after pregnancy plea

Jul 25, 2014 10:12 AM
LONG BEACH, Calif. (AP) - Police planned Friday to give prosecutors the results of their investigation into an 80-year-old man's fatal shooting of one of two burglars who attacked him when he found them ransacking his home.

Tom Greer, whose collarbone was broken in the assault, told a television station he fired even though the female burglar told him not to shoot because she was pregnant.

The woman's alleged accomplice was being held for investigation of murder and police said Thursday they had yet to decide whether to recommend any charges be brought against the octogenarian homeowner.

"She says, 'Don't shoot me, I'm pregnant - I'm going to have a baby,' and I shot her anyway," Greer told KNBC-TV outside his house.

Long Beach police Chief Jim McDonnell said at a news conference Thursday that the woman, 28-year-old Andrea Miller, did not appear to be pregnant, but an autopsy would determine whether she was.

The surviving suspect, Gus Adams, 26, has been arrested on suspicion of residential burglary and murder, McDonnell said. The murder charge is possible because he is accused of being involved in a felony that led to a death, the chief said. He was being held on bail just over $1 million, and police did not know if he had hired an attorney.

Both Miller and Adams, who had histories of similar crimes, were unarmed, McDonnell said.

Greer had been burglarized three times before and believed the same suspects were responsible.

He returned home shortly after 9 p.m. Tuesday to find the pair in his home. Both suspects attacked him, hitting him with their fists and ultimately "body slamming" him to the floor, breaking his collar bone, McDonnell said.

Miller continued to hit him, McDonnell said, while Adams moved to a safe and began trying to pry it open.

The homeowner was able to get to another room where he grabbed a gun and returned to open fire on the suspects. They fled through the garage and into an alley, and Greer gave chase, firing at them again outside, McDonnell said.

Miller was hit, collapsed in the alley and died at the scene, McDonnell said.

"The lady didn't run as fast as the man, so I shot her in the back twice," Greer told the TV station. "She's dead ... but he got away."

McDonnell would not say whether Miller was shot in the back as Greer said. He also declined to say how many shots were fired and whether either of the suspects was hit inside the house before fleeing.

No phone listing was available for Greer and he could not be reached for comment by The Associated Press.

It will be up to the district attorney to decide whether to charge Greer with a crime, the chief said. Under California law, homeowners can defend themselves if they are in "imminent danger of serious bodily injury or death," he said.

Prosecutors will have to determine whether chasing after the suspects and firing on them outside the home goes beyond self-defense, McDonnell said.

I didn't write this just copied it.
 
She was shot outside the home, at least that what the radio said.

With her being pregnant it changed everything, even if she was lying. By her saying those words it changes everything for me at least.
 
Yes, but in the leg. If my only option was a fatal shot then probably not, but that's just me.

He didn't know that she was pregnant, only that she SAID she was. The only thing he knew for certain was that she broke into his house and attacked an 80 year old man repeatedly.
 
He was right to defense himself with a gun, as self defence. He crossed the line (if the report is true) if he did fired & kill the woman, when they were already running away from him. He was not self defending, but rather revenge. He could have fire into the air, like most cops are trained to do . He can argue that he was afraid they would return. He can argue about a lot of things...

Its not completely murder, but its certainly well beyond self defense.

Out of curiosity, don't people have to take some test or learn things like rules of engagement before qualify to operate a weapon? Having military background, we were taught that a weapon is a killing machine, & have to be handled with great care. Even aiming (for fun) at someone with an empty weapon can get you detained in military prison. Learning when to engage & when not too (rules of engagement) is an important part of the training.
 
Yes, but in the leg. If my only option was a fatal shot then probably not, but that's just me.

He didn't know that she was pregnant, only that she SAID she was. The only thing he knew for certain was that she broke into his house and attacked an 80 year old man repeatedly.
Problem is, he did not shoot her when she was attacking him, He shot here when she was already fleeing. He was not under life threat when he fired. Its against Geneva convention to shoot at an unarmed enemy, let alone someone not armed & escaping.
 
Problem is, he did not shoot her when she was attacking him, He shot here when she was already fleeing. He was not under life threat when he fired. Its against Geneva convention to shoot at an unarmed enemy, let alone someone not armed & escaping.

Right, the fleeing part I do have a problem with. I was really just addressing the pregnancy issue.

In this particular instance as soon as they run out of the house and are retreating you can't shoot.
 
Nope, dude should go down for at least manslaughter.

Can't use deadly force to protect property nor deadly force when somebody is fleeing.

He would have been in the clear though if he would have shot them right before/during the attack beause they posed a threat of bodily harm

That being said, I don't feel sympathy for the lady.
 
Last edited:
If it happens three times in a row, I'd say shoot them dead before they come back and kill you on the fourth try.
 
In my current state, no. I could handle a dude and his girl friend without the need of weapons. As a 80 year old guy though, that's a different story.
 
I don't know if I could do it, personally. I can't put myself in that situation. However, I don't have a problem with what the man did.

If she was so concerned about her baby, don't put yourself in that situation. I can't have sympathy for what she did, only for the baby. The man has been robbed consistently and he was attacked immediately. If he didn't do anything now, they'd come back again.
 
If you are pregnant you should know better than to put yourself in situations that are life or death.

Being pregnant doesn't give you a pass to break the law. I applaud this old man.
 
Problem is, he did not shoot her when she was attacking him, He shot here when she was already fleeing. He was not under life threat when he fired. Its against Geneva convention to shoot at an unarmed enemy, let alone someone not armed & escaping.
You do know that if you fire a bullet in the air, it does come down right? Your taking a chance of shooting someone you have no intention of harming. If your ever in a spot like that remember one thing please. Shoot in the dirt, real thick tree or something less likely to couse a richet ( cant spell the word lol) bounce off of.
 
I don't know if I could do it, personally. I can't put myself in that situation. However, I don't have a problem with what the man did.

If she was so concerned about her baby, don't put yourself in that situation. I can't have sympathy for what she did, only for the baby. The man has been robbed consistently and he was attacked immediately. If he didn't do anything now, they'd come back again.

Or the baby would come back and rob him when he's 100.
 
The man no problem even the women, but saying that she was pregnant. I know I would hesitate.
Not saying the old man was wrong, was curious if I was the only one who would hesitate though.
EDIT
Not saying wha he did was legal. Not saying it was immoral. Not saying whether he was right or wrong.

Although......
 
Last edited:
No, I would not have shot her.



The police are not trained to do this.
Maybe not in America, but its common elsewhere. The idea is to
1) Scare them, so they back off
2) To give them a warning, (essentially a chance) , The next shot will be on them if they advance to endanger your life.

I know things are different in America, but I would be surprise if its different in most develop world, where shooting on a fleeing person with no arms will be considered taking the laws into your own hand.

That's is the danger of giving arms to civilians without proper training & mentality.

Its true that a gun/knife can, & should be used as self defense, but making that call, what considered a life threatening risk, when to hold off( even if it may even comprised your own safety), because it goes both ways. You need to protect yourself from someone, & someone need to protect themselves form your gun & someone else gun as well, & not worry about being an accidental victim.

Imagine, someone trying to reach a glove inside his jacket, & was shot by someone who thought he was pulling out a gun.
 
Last edited:
You do know that if you fire a bullet in the air, it does come down right? Your taking a chance of shooting someone you have no intention of harming. If your ever in a spot like that remember one thing please. Shoot in the dirt, real thick tree or something less likely to couse a richet ( cant spell the word lol) bounce off of.
Ricochet.

Ok, you have a point, but to be fair, the chance of hitting someone is pretty slim, & if it did hit someone on the way down, it could harm, but unlikely lethal.
 
well being as the man may be wanted on murder you had a very real possibility they were going to come back and finish the job. It's to bad he did not kill both of them.

f***'em both and f***'em again for forcing an old man to take a life.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Partyman
In my current state, no. I could handle a dude and his girl friend without the need of weapons. As a 80 year old guy though, that's a different story.
His initial action of taking out his gun to protect himself is correct, have the robbers try to then attack him, shooting at them would be just, & no one will blame him. But he was shooting at the woman when she was running away, at the alley, not once at her back, but twice.

The only argument for him, is the robbers ran away, pick up some weapons, or call some buddies, & return to try to kill him, but that was a long shot if you asked me.

Also, it was mention the other robber was caught by the police, which make you asked the question. Could he have called the police after the robbers fled, instead of shooting at them.
 
His initial action of taking out his gun to protect himself is correct, have the robbers try to then attack him, shooting at them would be just, & no one will blame him. But he was shooting at the woman when she was running away, at the alley, not once at her back, but twice.

The only argument for him, is the robbers ran away, pick up some weapons, or call some buddies, & return to try to kill him, but that was a long shot if you asked me.

Also, it was mention the other robber was caught by the police, which make you asked the question. Could he have called the police after the robbers fled, instead of shooting at them.

who knows it's easy to say that when you're ass was not beat down and you're not 80. who knows what was going on in his head when he did it. He may have just been in autopilot. This man did not sake anyone out to hurt they came to him so f***'em kill'em both.
 
Starseeker you live in Germany, right? I'm just curious.
I do, & I am lucky never in my life to feel the threat of firearm.

I do realize things are different in US, & gun & robbery are more common, but yeah, maybe its best not to speak anymore as the perspective is different. I am just very surprise so many people approval of the shooting. Maybe I will think differently if I lived in America.

But having said that, I still feel strongly that anyone that is allow to operate a firearm, must have proper training & know when to use firearm, when not to, & how best to engage a suspicious person. etc.
The same way people who drive need to pass the driving test, & understand how to read the road signs & know traffic rules.
 
Last edited:
who knows it's easy to say that when you're ass was not beat down and you're not 80. who knows what was going on in his head when he did it. He may have just been in autopilot. This man did not sake anyone out to hurt they came to him so f***'em kill'em both.
I am guessing like you said, he was beaten, & in his mind, to pull out his gun & shoot at his attackers, in moment of tension or rage. Who knows I may have done the same. Many people crack under pressure.

Which is why I said, he shouldn't be charged with murder, but he should take some responsibilities.
 
I'd have beat her with a bag of oranges.
Seriously though, cold blooded senior dude is awesome. One less douchebag in society.
 
Last edited: