Xbox One "Crazy Bandwidth" A Benefit To Developers Says Microsoft

[SevenDead1ySinz]

I hate to clutter up an already solid factual beatdown with a minor quibble, but technically we don't know that the Rackspace stuff for Sony is even dedicated servers - I vaguely remember that this was more for their PSN infrastructure stuff than to be leased back out to developers.

But other than that, I couldn't agree more with what you posted, but things like verifiable facts have that effect on me.

I was just going by this:

Sony PlayStation recently signed a services agreement with Rackspace, under which our developers and architects will be consulting and supporting the PlayStation team with their OpenStack private cloud deployment.

I was assuming that dedicated servers would come with the territory, but yes there hasn't been technically any official information as to what services the RackSpace partnership will provide PS4 devs, at least none that I have come across.

 

[Ceger]

I was just going by this:


I was assuming that dedicated servers would come with the territory, but yes there has been technically any official information as to what services the RackSpace partnership will provide PS4 devs, at least none that I have come across.

A fair assumption as they seem to want to do everything in a manner in step with MS, so why go cloud and not offer services for PS4 devs?

 

[Kvally]

sigh...

here we go.

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/new...Rome-Hands-On-Preview-Are-You-Not-Entertained




So, NO QTE's....

got another erroneous bullet?

 

[GeorgeSoros]

Lets pretend that the "It's horrible to develope for X1" statement is true. How horrible would that be, as hard as it was developing for the PS3 this gen or would they be just exaggerating? I mean, I'm sure Microsoft has the right tools to make a system that's easy to work with.

The two situations are completely different. Both the PS3 and 360 had enough GDDR3 ram for graphics. It's just that the PS3 had split 256 Mbs OF GDDR3 GPU ram for games and 256MB XDR for general purpose ram while the 360 had 512mb of unifed GDDR3 GPU ram for everything. Plus, there was less than a 5% difference between the two GPUs in terms of flops.

 

[xbgamer7]

The two situations are completely different. Both the PS3 and 360 had enough GDDR3 ram for graphics. It's just that the PS3 had split 256 Mbs OF GDDR3 GPU ram for games and 256MB XDR for general purpose ram while the 360 had 512mb of unifed GDDR3 GPU ram for everything. Plus, there was less than a 5% difference between the two GPUs in terms of flops.

Here comes George again, talking out of his ass like he knows what he is talking about.

X360 Gpu has 240 gflops,
ps3 gpu had 176 gflops

yep, less that five percent.

 

[GeorgeSoros]

Here comes George again, talking out of his ass like he knows what he is talking about.

X360 Gpu has 240 gflops,
ps3 gpu had 176 gflops

yep, less that five percent.

Directly from a Microsoft spokesperson in 2005:

It is important to note that if the RSX ALUs are similar to the GeForce 6800 ALUs then they work on vector4s, while the Xbox 360 GPU ALUs work on vector5s. The total programmable GPU floating point performance for the PS3 would be 52 ALU ops * 4 floats per op *2 (madd) * 550 MHz = 228.8 GFLOPS which is less than the Xbox 360's 48 ALU ops * 5 floats per op * 2 (madd) * 500 MHz= 240 GFLOPS. - Source

PS3 is 230 gflops
360 is 240 gflops

So where did you get those ridiculously wrong flop numbers from?

 

[MosquitoSmasher]

Hahaha oh god no,please not this gflops talk again.

 

[xbgamer7]

Directly from a Microsoft spokesperson in 2005:



PS3 is 230 gflops
360 is 240 gflops

So where did you get those ridiculously wrong flop numbers from?

He calculated wrong, the rsx and the xenos can not be calculated the same way.

the ps3 has 24 pixel shaders w/ 10 floating ops per cycle @ 550 mhz and
8 vertex shaders w/ 10 floating ops per cycle @ 550mhz

24 * 10 * 550 =132000 +
8 * 10 * 550 = 44000

total of 176 gflops total

I have seen that number before and it usually links back to that page.

 

[GeorgeSoros]

Hahaha oh god no,please not this gflops talk again.

What the hell is wrong with you? I just corrected him on what the specs were. I gave my source and it proved that what he said was wrong. Nothing more nothing less.

He calculated wrong, the rsx and the xenos can not be calculated the same way.

the ps3 has 24 pixel shaders w/ 10 floating ops per cycle @ 550 mhz and
8 vertex shaders w/ 10 floating ops per cycle @ 550mhz

24 * 10 * 550 =132000 +
8 * 10 * 550 = 44000

total of 176 gflops total

I have seen that number before and it usually links back to that page.

What you are saying just doesn't add up. Why Would Microsoft lie and give the PS3 52 more gflops?

That was just an incredibly illogical response.

 

[Squiggs]

What the hell is wrong with you? I just corrected him on what the specs were. I gave my source and it proved that what he said was wrong. Nothing more nothing less.



What you are saying just doesn't add up. Why Would Microsoft lie and give the PS3 52 more gflops?

That was just an incredibly illogical response.

Syl, what exactly is your point?

 

[SevenDead1ySinz]

What the hell is wrong with you? I just corrected him on what the specs were. I gave my source and it proved that what he said was wrong. Nothing more nothing less.



What you are saying just doesn't add up. Why Would Microsoft lie and give the PS3 52 more gflops?

That was just an incredibly illogical response.

Lying and incorrectly calculating are two different things

 

[GeorgeSoros]

Lying and incorrectly calculating are two different things

What you quoted there doesn't say anything about lying. What he did was go out on a limb and it snapped on him.

 

[SevenDead1ySinz]

What you quoted there doesn't say anything about lying. What he did was go out on a limb and it snapped on him.

What I was saying was that you are claiming that if he was correct then Microsoft would have been lying, which you then said would make it an illogical conclusion, he was saying that MS incorrectly calculated the gflops, which wouldn't be lying and therefore not as illogical. It's not like people haven't made math mistakes before.

Why Would Microsoft lie ...

He calculated wrong

As I said, lying and incorrectly calculating are two different things.

 

[GeorgeSoros]

What I was saying was that you are claiming that if he was correct then Microsoft would have been lying, which you then said would make it an illogical conclusion, he was saying that MS incorrectly calculated the gflops, which wouldn't be lying and therefore not as illogical. It's not like people haven't made math mistakes before.



As I said, lying and incorrectly calculating are two different things.

Oh, I see. Then it's even more outrageous. Microsoft conspired to give the PS3 52 more gflops and random joe has to correct their faulty calculations to take away those additional flops. That's insane.

Syl, what exactly is your point?

The original point was comparing the next generation of consoles is different from the current generation.

 

[Squiggs]

The original point was comparing the next generation of consoles is different from the current generation.

Right, but you just seem like you're on an agenda here. One time you were ecstatic about tiled resources and getting one console, then the next moment you were conflicted because the PS4 seems superior to you based on paper specs (which was friggin' ridiculous as you used tiled resources as a reason why the X1 would be just as great) but your friends are all getting an X1, and now you're on about going picking bits for what it appears to be the sake of argument.

 

[Mcmasters]

Right, but you just seem like you're on an agenda here. One time you were ecstatic about tiled resources and getting one console, then the next moment you were conflicted because the PS4 seems superior to you based on paper specs, (which was friggin' ridiculous as you used tiled resources as a reason why the X1 would be just as great) and now you're on about going picking bits for what it appears to be the sake of argument.

Mhm...

 

[GeorgeSoros]

Right, but you just seem like you're on an agenda here. One time you were ecstatic about tiled resources and getting one console, then the next moment you were conflicted because the PS4 seems superior to you based on paper specs (which was friggin' ridiculous as you used tiled resources as a reason why the X1 would be just as great) but your friends are all getting an X1, and now you're on about going picking bits for what it appears to be the sake of argument.

Yeah, and that proves I'm unbiased. I don't just stand behind a brand. If I see that one is better than the other I will change my mind.

If you really are looking for an honest discussion (and not just to trumpet the Xbox One Horn of war) then I will have that with you.

A lot of that talk about tiled resources and display planes I got from Astro. As time went on and Microsoft themselves never actually talked much about the display planes and tiled resources I started getting worried.

Penello talked about "dynamic resolution scaling" in Dead Rising 3, but I wasn't impressed with it at all and I'm not sure if that has anything to do with what Astro was touting months ago.

 

[Squiggs]

Yeah, and that proves I'm unbiased. I don't just stand behind a brand. If I see that one is better than the other I will change my mind.

If you really are looking for an honest discussion (and not just to trumpet the Xbox One Horn of war) then I will have that with you.

A lot of that talk about tiled resources and display planes I got from Astro. As time went on and Microsoft themselves never actually talked much about the display planes and tiled resources I started getting worried.

Penello talked about "dynamic resolution scaling" in Dead Rising 3, but I wasn't impressed with it at all and I'm not sure if that has anything to do with what Astro was touting months ago.

Now that makes more sense. Apologies if I sounded apprehensive.

 

[dknasty9]

So if the Xbox One has a higher memory bandwidth, what is that going to mean for a real world performance in games? Is it better FPS, shorter load times, etc?

 

[GeorgeSoros]

Now that makes more sense. Apologies if I sounded apprehensive.

Thank you.

 

[Bodhi]

Hug it out.

 

[rokkerkory]

So if the Xbox One has a higher memory bandwidth, what is that going to mean for a real world performance in games? Is it better FPS, shorter load times, etc?

It may be like PS2 vs xbox games, perhaps some better sparks? lol

I don't think we know yet.

 

[old guy]

Projection

That's how you could possibly think "your blind ps4 worship." with my posting history, except change the word PS4 to X1 and that's you.

Dedicated servers are working out just fine thanks. Devs have the option to RENT them on the PS4 just like they can RENT them from MS for the X1. Of course on both systems the devs can take the option to not RENT them. You're going to be disappointed if you think every game on the X1 will have dedicated servers, that's not what MS said. All they are doing is offering to RENT servers, nothing more.

Why does rise look better than the PS4 line up, because you want it to, it's a subjective call and you are a 'fan' of the X1. Lets face it, a 900p QTE fest is not going to sell any consoles.

I don't think you understand what Azure is. Yes, anyone can RENT servers. From who? At what cost? Have you rented dedicated servers in the past? It's a bitch. You're paying for the whole server. And scaling and maintenance is a bitch. Have you ever been involved in the management of a dedicated server farm? Even worse.

Azure, like Amazon's AWS, is a virtual, ON DEMAND server infrastructure. That's a big deal. That means servers can be spun up and spun down at will, based on demand. There is a reason why AWS and similar services are now becoming the defacto standard for resource management on the web, as opposed to "dedicated servers". And right now, Azure is the only service working specifically for general computing (including dedicated MP servers) for gaming. Could such a service exist for Sony? Of course. But it doesn't yet. That's the advantage that MS has right now. And judging from how Sony countered Xbox Live, I'd imagine it will remain an advantage.

Sorry, but the idea of dismissing Azure as "anyone can rent dedicated servers" is naive at best and shows a complete lack of understanding about what exactly Azure is bringing to the table. Cheap, on demand, scalable general computing focusing on gaming. If I had the resources I'd invest it in a third party company who wanted to do that, because it's going to be huge. And again, right now, MS has it and Sony doesn't. Your attempt to put Sony and MS on equal footing in this regard is a massive failure.

 

[Yossarian]

MS has it and Sony doesn't.

Not entirely accurate. MS hasn't even built the building where this server farm is going to live.

http://www.gamerevolution.com/news/...rm-for-xbox-one-and-office-applications-20037

http://blogs.desmoinesregister.com/...ion-data-center-investment-in-west-des-moines

http://www.passfail.com/news/tacoma.../microsoft-plans-iowa-data-center-9696040.htm

The building permits were only issued a month ago, construction only just begun. So it doesn't actually exist yet.

 

[Mcmasters]

Not entirely accurate. MS hasn't even built the building where this server farm is going to live.

http://www.gamerevolution.com/news/...rm-for-xbox-one-and-office-applications-20037

http://blogs.desmoinesregister.com/...ion-data-center-investment-in-west-des-moines

http://www.passfail.com/news/tacoma.../microsoft-plans-iowa-data-center-9696040.htm

The building permits were only issued a month ago, construction only just begun. So it doesn't actually exist yet.

All of these links are dated in June mate. Why can't you use more recent information for f*** sakes? And no, Sony DOESN'T have it. THAT IS ACCURATE!

 

[Yossarian]

All of these links are dated in June mate. Why can't you use more recent information for f*** sakes? And no, Sony DOESN'T have it. THAT IS ACCURATE!

Yeah June 21st was eons ago. So the building has been built ? and is full of servers up and running ?

Why not head over to the tickle thread to continue our discussion.

 

[Mcmasters]

Yeah June was eons ago.

Lets not take into account that the Azure servers were already a work in progress before it was announced. And it still doesnt change the fact that the Ps4 doesn't have an answer for it.

 

[Mcmasters]

Yeah June 21st was eons ago. So the building has been built ? and is full of servers up and running ?

Why not head over to the tickle thread to continue our discussion.

Yeah. Lets dance!

 

[SevenDead1ySinz]

Not entirely accurate. MS hasn't even built the building where this server farm is going to live.

http://www.gamerevolution.com/news/...rm-for-xbox-one-and-office-applications-20037

http://blogs.desmoinesregister.com/...ion-data-center-investment-in-west-des-moines

http://www.passfail.com/news/tacoma.../microsoft-plans-iowa-data-center-9696040.htm

The building permits were only issued a month ago, construction only just begun. So it doesn't actually exist yet.

That data farm is a work in progress, but that's not the ONLY data farm that MS is using for running the Xbox servers.

 

[Zcythe]

Not entirely accurate. MS hasn't even built the building where this server farm is going to live.

http://www.gamerevolution.com/news/...rm-for-xbox-one-and-office-applications-20037

http://blogs.desmoinesregister.com/...ion-data-center-investment-in-west-des-moines

http://www.passfail.com/news/tacoma.../microsoft-plans-iowa-data-center-9696040.htm

The building permits were only issued a month ago, construction only just begun. So it doesn't actually exist yet.

Umm...You know that Azure is already an existing platform right? You do realize that MS has data centers already in place around the world right? You do realize that the news in the links you provided only pertain to Iowa right, as in an expansion of their already existing data center there?

From the links you provided:

Microsoft announced plans Friday to build another massive data center in Iowa, which has attracted some of the biggest names in computer technology by exempting crucial ingredients for processing and storage from sales taxes as well as offering cheap electricity.

Microsoft has spent about $200 million on its existing data center on 40 acres in West Des Moines, which opened last year and employs about 50 workers. Construction on the new one nearby will begin late this year and is expected to be done by the end of 2015.

The Azure data centers that I know about of the top of my head:

• North Central US – Chicago, Illinois

• South Central US – San Antonio, Texas

• West US – California

• East US – Virginia

• North Europe - Dublin, Ireland

• West Europe - Amsterdam, Netherlands

• East Asia – Hong Kong

• Southeast Asia – Singapore

Additionally, from earlier this month, http://www.thewhir.com/web-hosting-news/microsoft-accelerates-its-data-center-expansion.

Snippet:

Microsoft is accelerating a global expansion of its data center infrastructure to support growth in its Azure cloud services and Xbox Live gaming service. At a time when many cloud builders are debating whether to build or buy their data center space, Microsoft is doing both.

Microsoft has long been one of the Internet’s master builders, investing $15 billion in data centers that now house more than 1 million servers. It has construction projects underway in at least five locations across the globe, from Singapore to Des Moines. And now Microsoft has also become the biggest customer in the market for turn-key “wholesale” data centers.
In recent weeks Microsoft has leased large chunks of server space in data centers in Silicon Valley and northern Virginia, two key hubs for Internet traffic. The latest leases, which total about 9.4 megawatts of critical power, establish Microsoft as the biggest fish in the market for super wholesale tenants: cloud builders who can lease vast chunks of server space. This group of companies – which also includes Facebook, Apple and Rackspace – can use their scale as leverage in pricing, and sometimes get discounts by working deals for space in multiple markets.

So no, you are not entirely accurate.